Len's comments are consistently of little use. The comments by the other three are always worth listening to. His rarely are.
Len you fool
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Originally Posted by harmon-whitecar:
“Len's comments are consistently of little use. The comments by the other three are always worth listening to. His rarely are.”
“Len's comments are consistently of little use. The comments by the other three are always worth listening to. His rarely are.”
Quite.
Originally Posted by Logopolis:
“I wondered when these type of threads would start.”
“I wondered when these type of threads would start.”
It started at the beginning of the series, and still true sadly.
Originally Posted by Facechild:
“It started at the beginning of the series, and still true sadly.”
“It started at the beginning of the series, and still true sadly.”
If you don't like the thread don't post simple
Originally Posted by JohnQuig:
“Got to agree with Len. It wasn't a patch on Susanna and Kevin's Paso from Blackpool. Natalie's was boring, forgettable and had no passion in it.
She's not as good as she thinks she is.”
“Got to agree with Len. It wasn't a patch on Susanna and Kevin's Paso from Blackpool. Natalie's was boring, forgettable and had no passion in it.
She's not as good as she thinks she is.”
Oh, has she said how good she things she is then. I'd love to see a link/ post. Or is it just a bit of mind reading going on?
Originally Posted by Tejas:
“Whether or not you like Natalie, I think the way Len spoke to her was just really rude and nasty, saying she was "in jeopardy". It left me feeling very uncomfortable and I felt it spoilt the mood of the programme.”
“Whether or not you like Natalie, I think the way Len spoke to her was just really rude and nasty, saying she was "in jeopardy". It left me feeling very uncomfortable and I felt it spoilt the mood of the programme.”
I agree, if he had to have a go then it should have been at Artem, Natalie was only dancing the steps that she had been taught.
Anyway, I thought that the whole routine was beautiful.
Originally Posted by IvanIV:
“What's this about? The paso? Artem thinks he can fool him with costumes and music and do his wafting as always. Well he can't. Well done Len for finally taking his gloves off.”
“What's this about? The paso? Artem thinks he can fool him with costumes and music and do his wafting as always. Well he can't. Well done Len for finally taking his gloves off.”
Strange when you consider Len was giving as high as eights to Mark for the lowest percentage of actual dance per performance than any other performer
We seem to have a lot of experts on this subject well having competed for a dozen years or more I still believe that as a judge Len has dropped his much higher standards of early series and the real problem with judges and advisers is inconsistency and Len delivers the inconsistent increasingly series by series
Lets face it Darcy can give occasional good advice to the females, Bruno likes or dislikes overall impressions and agreeing with Len whilst Craig fails to understand any dance in hold
Len is there as the ballroom/Latin competition expert and its time he backed off from that enormous ego and started behaving like the professional he is well paid so to be
Originally Posted by Twinkle toes no:
“She is not let down by Artem. She is let down by Len and his bias an bizarre comments . If he hated Natalie and Artems dance cos it wasn't traditional' how come he liked Brendan's an Sophie's?”
“She is not let down by Artem. She is let down by Len and his bias an bizarre comments . If he hated Natalie and Artems dance cos it wasn't traditional' how come he liked Brendan's an Sophie's?”
Yes, she is. He keeps dancing how he wants, ignores the Strictly 'rules' thinking it will get him the win. They dis a wonderful Rhumba, since that nothing has connected to any degree, however wonderful a dancer she is.
Grumpelstilskin needs to go, his inconsistency and blatant favouritism and stupid comments are annoying.
Originally Posted by Illuvatar:
“Whether he is correct or not is objective. But the guy is so rude and nasty to anybody who doesn't see things his way yet he is so precious when it comes to any "insult" even perceived like the way he continually tries to bully Bruno whenever he doesn't tow the lines. I feel really bad for Bruno having to take all of this from Len. The guy (Len) is a narcissistic knob quite frankly.
And I'm not a prudish guy by any stretch of the imagination but I found his leering comments to Abbey uncomfortable and not funny or cheeky. He had this real leer on his face as he said it. Dirty old git.
And if Ashley is in the dance-off, he is at the mercy of the other judges because Goodman will bear a grudge for being snapped at.”
“Whether he is correct or not is objective. But the guy is so rude and nasty to anybody who doesn't see things his way yet he is so precious when it comes to any "insult" even perceived like the way he continually tries to bully Bruno whenever he doesn't tow the lines. I feel really bad for Bruno having to take all of this from Len. The guy (Len) is a narcissistic knob quite frankly.
And I'm not a prudish guy by any stretch of the imagination but I found his leering comments to Abbey uncomfortable and not funny or cheeky. He had this real leer on his face as he said it. Dirty old git.
And if Ashley is in the dance-off, he is at the mercy of the other judges because Goodman will bear a grudge for being snapped at.”
My immediate thought at his comment was 'Jimmy Saville'.
It's not the first time Len has made similar comments, and I've had enough. I've sent a complaint to the BBC and said it's time Len was called to order.
Originally Posted by Twinkle toes no:
“He is an embarrassment . And holds a grudge which is not very nice to see”
“He is an embarrassment . And holds a grudge which is not very nice to see”
Yep, and I'm sure he's the reason they sacked Aliona.
I loved Natalie and Artem's paso. I could have watched it again and again. Were Len's remarks reverse philosophy in order to get the public voting for them?
Originally Posted by Gill P:
“I loved Natalie and Artem's paso. I could have watched it again and again. Were Len's remarks reverse philosophy in order to get the public voting for them?”
“I loved Natalie and Artem's paso. I could have watched it again and again. Were Len's remarks reverse philosophy in order to get the public voting for them?”
Not sure, I just remember him talking to Natalie like he was the demon headmaster and she was a naughty school girl. Personally, that dance was not one of their strongest but I do feel that they both come out and consistently given 100%. However, at this stage, it's getting clearer who Len is rooting for. Abbey is better than Sophie and Suzanne but not as clean as Natalie, yet Len and Bruno alway gush when she does her dance.
A few comments in this thread have alluded to Len not liking or being biased against Natalie and Artem. Len's certainly made it clear that he is not appreciating Artem's choreography this year.
But... (and this may only make sense to me, if so I apologise). When I was watching the dance I thought toward the end that, if other viewers were starting to find their dances a little bit samey like I was, they might be in the dance-off this week. I thought that right up until Len's little rant, I've been watching Strictly for years and when a judge speaks to a popular contestant in that manner, and to actually use the words 'you could be in jeopardy' he pretty much ensured Natalie would be nowhere near the dance off; Natalie supporters who may have just voted a couple of times will double their vote, those who like Natalie but are generally not voters or vote for others may vote for her for the the first time to keep her safe etc.
I turned to my husband after the comments and said, oh well she'll be safe now. I'm sure if I know how the British public work, Len will too, so even if he's not too happy with the choreography this year I actually believe his comments probably garnered more support, and quite likely he knew they would. Also he had the perfect opportunity in the Swingathon to further damage Natalie's chances and he didn't, I think he is just genuinely frustrated with Natalie not achieving what he thinks she should be, but he wanted to make sure she remained in the competition.
I haven't seen the spoiler, so I could be completely wrong
But... (and this may only make sense to me, if so I apologise). When I was watching the dance I thought toward the end that, if other viewers were starting to find their dances a little bit samey like I was, they might be in the dance-off this week. I thought that right up until Len's little rant, I've been watching Strictly for years and when a judge speaks to a popular contestant in that manner, and to actually use the words 'you could be in jeopardy' he pretty much ensured Natalie would be nowhere near the dance off; Natalie supporters who may have just voted a couple of times will double their vote, those who like Natalie but are generally not voters or vote for others may vote for her for the the first time to keep her safe etc.
I turned to my husband after the comments and said, oh well she'll be safe now. I'm sure if I know how the British public work, Len will too, so even if he's not too happy with the choreography this year I actually believe his comments probably garnered more support, and quite likely he knew they would. Also he had the perfect opportunity in the Swingathon to further damage Natalie's chances and he didn't, I think he is just genuinely frustrated with Natalie not achieving what he thinks she should be, but he wanted to make sure she remained in the competition.
I haven't seen the spoiler, so I could be completely wrong
Originally Posted by Sofajudge:
“Yes, she is. He keeps dancing how he wants, ignores the Strictly 'rules' thinking it will get him the win. They dis a wonderful Rhumba, since that nothing has connected to any degree, however wonderful a dancer she is.”
“Yes, she is. He keeps dancing how he wants, ignores the Strictly 'rules' thinking it will get him the win. They dis a wonderful Rhumba, since that nothing has connected to any degree, however wonderful a dancer she is.”
I am sure Artem is very well aware that he is playing fast and loose with the dance rules, I think a calculated decision to in his mind bring more life to a dance and go for the public vote at risk of losing judges votes, particularly from Len ( ultimately he knows the importance of the public vote and may feel Natalie has a battle to win enough folk over ).
I think Len is probably aware that Artem knows very well what he is doing and possibly resents the other judges too for not marking Natalie and Artem down for what he sees this flouting of the proper way. Len clearly prefers the proper way done pretty pish as with Patrick rather than the Natalie / Artem interpretation.
So really we have a sort of mind game / battle between Artem and Len, and in that sense yes, Artem is to blame for provoking ( but as I say, I think he has competitive reasons for this as he hss practically admitted ).
So, Len's issue is really with Artem's cheoreography, not with Natalie's actual dancing. If they stay too far apart that is Artem's fault / doing.
So Len was really out of order to tear into Natalie in such a way re them dancing apart and saying ( sorry, I mean bellowing ) that she needed to up her game or she risked going out. It came across as very rude and unnecessary.
The proper thing to do if he is so precious about dance rules was to comment to Natalie about her actual dancing and turn to Artem and point out that he has said before and is saying again that there are dance rules so he risks causing Natalie to be marked down.
I'm not sure logic is foremost in Len's mind though when things aren't done to his way of liking.
Of course, most of this could be.pantomine, in the way of all that storming off when voted off the swingathon ( if they were all asked to react very annoyed and Abbey totally didn't play the game, I am liking her even more ).
With Len though I am not so sure, I don't think he's the nicest of.men when crossed.
Originally Posted by ESPIONdansant:
“Rachel from Blackburn said it all for me.
There's swooshing and there's mutual repulsion. That's it.
Sure, Natalie can dance. But they have the chemistry of Will Young with Gareth Gates. It doesn't work.”
“Rachel from Blackburn said it all for me.
There's swooshing and there's mutual repulsion. That's it.
Sure, Natalie can dance. But they have the chemistry of Will Young with Gareth Gates. It doesn't work.”
Absolutely agree with you both,,and i think your analogy IS funny!!
I think the audience reaction said it all.
Len was quite nasty last night IMO quite rude too.
Something really annoyed him and you could see the other judges slightly off camera, I think when the dancers were going upstairs, trying to pacify him. When someone does a dance like that and puts their heart and soul into their performance, it must be soul destroying.
Len was quite nasty last night IMO quite rude too.
Something really annoyed him and you could see the other judges slightly off camera, I think when the dancers were going upstairs, trying to pacify him. When someone does a dance like that and puts their heart and soul into their performance, it must be soul destroying.
Seversl things.
It wasn't a proper Paso. The rule is don't promise something you know you are not going to do since it annoys people more when you don't deliver. If Artem wanted to choreograph that type of routine then he would have been advised to be low key and not say anything about doing it properly this time. It was bound to wind Len up.
Len will speak differently to Natalie than other dancers. It is usual for better dancers to be criticised more harshly in the dance world and less able ones to just be encouraged. That's the way it is and I'm glad it is that way since it usually works to advantage for both levels of dancer.
Admittedly the pro takes responsibility for the choreography. However, unlike other celebs I doubt that Natalie is totally passive. I can't imagine her not questioning the provenance of certain steps in the routine. So I suspect she may be complicit and therefore partly responsible (or completely misled by Artem).
Just because Len harshly criticised Artem and Natalie doesn't mean he doesn't want them to win. Quite the opposite. He will probably want the best dancers to win but may feel that Natalie is not fulfilling her potential.
This is just speculation since I don't know where they are in the vote but it may be that the more traditional choreography from others is proving more popular with the viewers this time round and that is what Len meant by the 'in jeopardy' comment.
However, I do agree that there were issues with Patrick's rumba (and the choreography) which should have been pointed out for consistency.
It wasn't a proper Paso. The rule is don't promise something you know you are not going to do since it annoys people more when you don't deliver. If Artem wanted to choreograph that type of routine then he would have been advised to be low key and not say anything about doing it properly this time. It was bound to wind Len up.
Len will speak differently to Natalie than other dancers. It is usual for better dancers to be criticised more harshly in the dance world and less able ones to just be encouraged. That's the way it is and I'm glad it is that way since it usually works to advantage for both levels of dancer.
Admittedly the pro takes responsibility for the choreography. However, unlike other celebs I doubt that Natalie is totally passive. I can't imagine her not questioning the provenance of certain steps in the routine. So I suspect she may be complicit and therefore partly responsible (or completely misled by Artem).
Just because Len harshly criticised Artem and Natalie doesn't mean he doesn't want them to win. Quite the opposite. He will probably want the best dancers to win but may feel that Natalie is not fulfilling her potential.
This is just speculation since I don't know where they are in the vote but it may be that the more traditional choreography from others is proving more popular with the viewers this time round and that is what Len meant by the 'in jeopardy' comment.
However, I do agree that there were issues with Patrick's rumba (and the choreography) which should have been pointed out for consistency.
Originally Posted by mel_drew:
“+1.
Goodman should have been sacked years ago. An unpleasant, childish man, promoted way beyond his abilities by incompetent BBC execs. How can he praise a performance by a man who strikes poses while his professional partner does all the work, and be so scathing about a stunning, beautiful dance from Natalie?
Idiotic.”
“+1.
Goodman should have been sacked years ago. An unpleasant, childish man, promoted way beyond his abilities by incompetent BBC execs. How can he praise a performance by a man who strikes poses while his professional partner does all the work, and be so scathing about a stunning, beautiful dance from Natalie?
Idiotic.”
Spot on.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Not entirely a "guest" - she is actaully employed to be on the show, being paid a vast sum of money with the added bonus of being taught a skill that would cost anyone else literally £thousands.”
“Not entirely a "guest" - she is actaully employed to be on the show, being paid a vast sum of money with the added bonus of being taught a skill that would cost anyone else literally £thousands.”
the contestants are more akin to consultants or brand ambassadors, what they 'earn' is tiny compared to what they generate for the brand.
i have no problem with anyone's dancing being commented on but berating them personally is not necessary or nice. its not the x factor, where they thrive on rows between the contestants, judges and audience, and i hope it never goes the way of that circus.
Originally Posted by aimeeaimee1000:
“Natalie and Artems Paso was correct swishing of skirts are essential in a Paso.
Len is downright rude and should go now they did a beautiful dance which he slaughtered.”
“Natalie and Artems Paso was correct swishing of skirts are essential in a Paso.
Len is downright rude and should go now they did a beautiful dance which he slaughtered.”
Natalie was the main feature in the Paso Artem Choreographed, rather than be an also ran to the professional we have seen previously this series.
Originally Posted by Spin turn:
“Seversl things.
It wasn't a proper Paso. The rule is don't promise something you know you are not going to do since it annoys people more when you don't deliver. If Artem wanted to choreograph that type of routine then he would have been advised to be low key and not say anything about doing it properly this time. It was bound to wind Len up.
Len will speak differently to Natalie than other dancers. It is usual for better dancers to be criticised more harshly in the dance world and less able ones to just be encouraged. That's the way it is and I'm glad it is that way since it usually works to advantage for both levels of dancer.
Admittedly the pro takes responsibility for the choreography. However, unlike other celebs I doubt that Natalie is totally passive. I can't imagine her not questioning the provenance of certain steps in the routine. So I suspect she may be complicit and therefore partly responsible (or completely misled by Artem).
Just because Len harshly criticised Artem and Natalie doesn't mean he doesn't want them to win. Quite the opposite. He will probably want the best dancers to win but may feel that Natalie is not fulfilling her potential.
This is just speculation since I don't know where they are in the vote but it may be that the more traditional choreography from others is proving more popular with the viewers this time round and that is what Len meant by the 'in jeopardy' comment.
However, I do agree that there were issues with Patrick's rumba (and the choreography) which should have been pointed out for consistency.”
“Seversl things.
It wasn't a proper Paso. The rule is don't promise something you know you are not going to do since it annoys people more when you don't deliver. If Artem wanted to choreograph that type of routine then he would have been advised to be low key and not say anything about doing it properly this time. It was bound to wind Len up.
Len will speak differently to Natalie than other dancers. It is usual for better dancers to be criticised more harshly in the dance world and less able ones to just be encouraged. That's the way it is and I'm glad it is that way since it usually works to advantage for both levels of dancer.
Admittedly the pro takes responsibility for the choreography. However, unlike other celebs I doubt that Natalie is totally passive. I can't imagine her not questioning the provenance of certain steps in the routine. So I suspect she may be complicit and therefore partly responsible (or completely misled by Artem).
Just because Len harshly criticised Artem and Natalie doesn't mean he doesn't want them to win. Quite the opposite. He will probably want the best dancers to win but may feel that Natalie is not fulfilling her potential.
This is just speculation since I don't know where they are in the vote but it may be that the more traditional choreography from others is proving more popular with the viewers this time round and that is what Len meant by the 'in jeopardy' comment.
However, I do agree that there were issues with Patrick's rumba (and the choreography) which should have been pointed out for consistency.”
BIB. Yes, but hardly any of the other dancers ever dance 'proper' dances to 'proper' music do they? At least Artem/Natalie's dance felt like a Paso and the music was singer-less wasn't it and I felt more as though it reflected a true Paso. Mind you, if any dance is danced without singers and has music in keeping with the spirit of the dance in question, then it has won me over.
Just observe how many lifts there are in all the dances on SCD in this series - why is this glossed over, now?
Originally Posted by pabird:
“Len is a two faced hypocrite not a strong word to Mark or Dave and others about faffing but following a brilliant Natalie performance he moans and groans like the show stealing idiot he constantly proves
Quite right
We now have a stationary Patrick outscoring Natalie? no way”
“Len is a two faced hypocrite not a strong word to Mark or Dave and others about faffing but following a brilliant Natalie performance he moans and groans like the show stealing idiot he constantly proves
Quite right
We now have a stationary Patrick outscoring Natalie? no way”
Patrick is good but no way did he perform better
Originally Posted by mel_drew:
“+1.
Goodman should have been sacked years ago. An unpleasant, childish man, promoted way beyond his abilities by incompetent BBC execs. How can hebeyond praise a performance by a man who strikes poses while his professional partner does all the work, and be so scathing about a stunning, beautiful dance from Natalie?
Idiotic.”
“+1.
Goodman should have been sacked years ago. An unpleasant, childish man, promoted way beyond his abilities by incompetent BBC execs. How can hebeyond praise a performance by a man who strikes poses while his professional partner does all the work, and be so scathing about a stunning, beautiful dance from Natalie?
Idiotic.”
I was getting annoyed at the pro's doing the dancing around the partner who clearly couldn't dance for toffee.
Len seemed to love it though so what's going on?
Originally Posted by ukgirl71:
“I'm not a fan of Natalie, but the girl is a superb dancer who appears to be being picked on by a very grumpy old so and so.”
“I'm not a fan of Natalie, but the girl is a superb dancer who appears to be being picked on by a very grumpy old so and so.”
Spot on
Originally Posted by aimeeaimee1000:
“Natalie and Artems Paso was correct swishing of skirts are essential in a Paso.
Len is downright rude and should go now they did a beautiful dance which he slaughtered.”
“Natalie and Artems Paso was correct swishing of skirts are essential in a Paso.
Len is downright rude and should go now they did a beautiful dance which he slaughtered.”
I was very shocked and so were the judges and the audience. I think Bruce would have given him and ear full
No HHGGTT, it felt nothing like a Paso. Just more of the same wafting we are seeing week in, week out with this pair - especially as it's been so long since we have seen them dance a fast Latin. Such a shame Natalie missed her Jive week and not a Ballroom-not-a-ballroom routine, at least then she may have appeared more diverse. As it is, she is coming over as a one-trick pony.
ETA: I agree with sradia and spin turn, I felt Len's comments, particularly the 'jeopardy' comment, was a pointed message for the audience at home as much as it was for Nat and Artem.
ETA: I agree with sradia and spin turn, I felt Len's comments, particularly the 'jeopardy' comment, was a pointed message for the audience at home as much as it was for Nat and Artem.
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