Ah, I see we do agree on something

I think some of the pros on SCD are past their best. I love seeing new ones join and add some excitement and style, but not all are up to it.

I think some of the choreography has suffered because some of the music choices are just plain daft.

How can you choreograph a foxtrot to a diva R&B number? Why call a dance a salsa when the music is a Bee Gee disco number. Oh yes, you do the Latin Hustle to it and STILL call it salsa.

I suppose the producers think their audience is stupid.

I think the producers know the vast majority of their audience know nothing about ballroom/latin dancing or don't really care enough about it to be bothered when something isn't "strictly" correct.
Those of us who do "know" either through personal experience of ballroom/latin or through educating ourselves over the years or through a different form of dance which shares similarities are in the minority I suspect.

Why have any judges then? Why bother with marks? Why haul in the ghastly Jason Gilickson (Burn the Floor) as Creative Director of Choreography (que?) to oversee the show?

If anyone was wondering who was doing the dreary pro numbers, blame him. Yes, they are awful.

I am wondering if he chooses the music as well. Let's face it, Burn The Floor is very Marmite.. It's either fabulous or irredeemably naff, depending on your point of view.

I wouldn't have called Artem an ex-dancer

We do I also agree the group pro numbers are a bit rubbish and that the producers will pull the 'entertainment show ' card.

It is entertainment but does this have to exclude consistency and some integrity to the dances?

Because it would have been hard to do a celebrity version of Come Dancing without any judges and that's what this show is. It's an entertainment show based on taking celebrities out of their comfort zones and see if they can be taught a new skill - in this case ballroom/latin dancing. Or that's what it started off as, in the past few series' it seems to be being dumbed down to the base level and hyped up beyond any level of "teaching a new skill".


In recent series' it would seem yes, that is the case. When SCD started there was far more of the "teaching a celebrity a new skill" in terms of the pros actually teaching each individual ballroom and latin dance and performing a routine which was recognisable while remaining entertaining.

Well said that bear


And that kat!



Well who would have thought the most objective analysis of dancing on the board at present is lurking in one of the Brendanette threads which I normally pass on. I couldn't give a flying fig about the contestants, I have nothing against any of them and I don't much mind who wins (although it would be nice if they had danced well)But it has become nigh on impossible to take a dispassionate look at the dances without a star stuck fan taking umbrage and chipping in.

Why is that fans get to have appreciation thread where they can gush about their favourites to their hearts content? Yet those of us that love dance and want to be able to pick apart the performances and make our own critiques on the dances we know something about are not allowed the space to do that? Nor indeed are the people who would genuinely like to understand more about the various dances allowed to find out. Any attempt to take an unprejudiced look at the dances results in some fan wading into the discussion if one has the audacity to say anything that is not totally complimentary. This makes any intelligent discussion nigh on impossible.


You are such a monkey... Pet

In theory you should be able to do that in the Not an Appreciation Thread.

Except An Thropologist said 'unprejudiced look'. I don't believe the NAT is opposed to prejudice

I've found the board interesting this year reading the Charleston thread, for example, or the salsa discussion. They're not about taking potshots at the celebs or the pros but about asserting a standard and comparing the SCD version. Complimentary or critical is beside the point really. Would be a shame if those discussions disappeared into a thread not everyone reads...

Yes I know. The irony The best place for people who appreciate dance to post is on a non-appreciation board.

Perhaps the forum should be set up so the lower main board is predominately for Fan-wars, commenting on stories in the tabloids, answering Terry's latest episode of hypotheticals and such like.

Then where the appreciation rooms are now they could create a thread for each dance where those that want to talk about/learn more about the styles, technique, choreography, music etc can do that without causing offence to the Brendanettes, Abbenistas, Louisasts et.al.

OK. You get an upgrade to wise monkey for that post

it would be nice to be able to comment on some ones dance honestly without being classed as a hater - I like DS but when it comes to just SCD dance chat it is not really the place and I go somewhere else for that )

Hence my very specific use of the phrase "in theory"


To be fair though, there's nothing stopping anyone from opening a thread which seeks to discuss the actual technicality of each dance. It's been done for the Charleston this year and in previous years we had a specific thread where our very lovely (and now sadly absent) dance teachers would post about each individual dance and answer questions about ballroom/latin.

I do, however, think the absence of "critical" and impartial discussion does tend to reflect the split between those who watch for the much flaunted "entertainment" aspect and those who may want to see more of the "technical" dance elements - ie there's far more of the "I watch to be entertained and might pick up a bit about dance while doing it" than those who already know something and either want to know more or wish to extend their criticism to the routines being performed on SCD.

My favourite VWs:

1. Lisa Snowden
2. Kelly Brook
3. Alesha Dixon
4. Kara Tointon
5. Kimberley Walsh

I guess I'm just a sucker for a pretty woman in a nice frock spinning round in 3/4 time

I haven't been blown away by anyone's this year; I enjoyed both Sophie's and Abbey's without being blown away by either. *whispers* I actually preferred Susanna's.

Tried it Hun with the first AT of the season. Had fans in a right lather. Even though I said nothing against the contestant only the dance. One poster did all but threatening to top her/himself because "everything was so negative" Naively I took that person's apparent distress seriously, apologised for upsetting them and shut up shop. I now realise I was duped.(where did rolls eyes smilie go?)

The Charleston thread expert (who clearly knows her stuff) took a lot of flak from fans on the thread she started. I have just read unpleasant posts responding to another well qualified dancer/teacher and poster.

Last week I posted a detailed technical explanation about how salsa footwork is grounded or "into the floor" etc. Another poster then announced they had spent their Sunday afternoon researching salsa on the net (which I applaud) and declaring them self to be now the most expert person on the forum. Well how can my 15 years of doing compete with 4 hours watching u tube? And the went on to demonstrate that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and the knowledge acquired while accurate in itself had been inaccurately applied to my original post because the person in question had got half an idea about salsa.

There used to be some great posters on here as you say - teachers and so forth. I remember one in particular who would break the Argentine Tangos down step by step. I miss him. I wonder why these people don't post any more. Its a mystery isn't it

Ah the lovely DavidJames was our resident AT expert and you're right, his posts were usually informative and interesting. Unfortunately, as is the nature of anything involving the public and any element of competition, there will always be those unable to accept their view or opinion isn't the only valid one.

That was him. His posts were brill and spot on. The last post of his I remember was a step by step critique of Kara and Artem's AT. He was accurate, objective and in my eyes neither pro not anti - just factual.

I wish he was. Still around. Give the information without using it as a way to swipe at other pros or celebs. You do that well though An Thropologist.

It probably is hard to do well. There'll be us sloppy luvvy folk who just want to hear good things about our favourite contestant. And it is a subjective matter. eg Many of us loved Mark and enjoyed some simple things he did -- found them profound, whilst finding the clearly proficient Natalie a bit unemotional. And others of course would think Mark was taking a better dancer's place and hold Natalie to be sublime. There's always someone to offend.

it's astonishing that some do it with great grace and also with a wide sense of what the beginner should be capable of and get out of it. Not mentioning names, but there are lots of friendly experts who we should cosset.

But it was the wrong story. Brendan had Delilah and the storyteller reconciled, which doesn't happen in the song. Instead the words tell why Delilah was murdered - which happened at the ending of Abbey's version. And Aljaz expressed more of the song's lyrics in his brilliant choreography, like the triumphant happiness of "she was my woman" and his despairing snatch at her hand as he "felt like a slave that no man could free"..etc.

Interesting stuff tucked in here!

I'd love to learn more about the dances that I don't do, for instance, I'd like to know why Alesha's VW is considered better by some, or what about Brendan's choreography do people enjoy so much.

I'm really hoping to hear what about Ashley's Salsa was recognizable (I'm taking a wild guess that the leads crotch jump into the follows face is frowned upon on the social floor ) and if that in-out compression walk toward the camera was an AT thing, or a Ballroom thing, because it pops up in Swing too, where we call it 'Tango walks'.

I like ruminating about the public vote too, and I don't even mind the fan worship, but ultimately I'm more interested in the dances than the celebs, and it's nice to see who has nailed some aspects, who is struggling and who has fallen in love with dancing (Deborah, I still think of how happy dancing made you!).

There is a lot to celebrate on the show, and on the forum. I'm going to do my best to ignore everything else.

I'm also going to try out AT as a New Years Resolution, because the AT enthusiasts on this board have piqued my interest, the SCD version can be entertaining, but it's the discussion about it here that has got me really interested. Thanks

PS, I also picked Abbey and Patrick out of last nights line up

No, it shouldn't because there is still a wide audience of social dancers, ex dancers and dance lovers who know what they are watching and can appreciate the wonderful aspects of good dance, and the pleasure of seeing a non-dancer discover an ability they never knew they had.

Did you miss the commas in the paragraph Pet? I am the ex dancer (who still dances)

You read it too fast!

David James is still out there, but not in here, and is a friend of mine. We still dance together - AT naturally - and will continue to do so.

I'll tell him you miss him, but I am not sure that will bring him back!