Len did this trick with someone else this series, didn't he *thinks* ranted that he would have saved the evictee, but not in terms that would have made the evictee happy, by complimenting them - rather, in terms that just slagged off the saved pair.

It was quite nasty, and seemed just as fake.

Yes, he was dancing a rumba and that's pretty much what it's all about.

I think you are absolutely right. Stupid old man. Len is now surplus to requirements and probably needs to retire and shut up.

I don't think he's taking his meds either.

Yes, but with the exception of 2 winners (Darren Gough and Chris Hollins) the best dancer or one of the best has always won out!

Natasha was clearly the best in her year, Jill likewise (c/f infamous Jive)

Mark may have started slower than the likes of Emma in her series, but by the end his freestyle and Salsa were phenomenal.

Alesha won the show in week 1 given her nearest competitors in Gethin and Matt had serious flaws they just couldn't make up in time.

Tom may not have been as good as Rachel in his year, but he certainly wasn't a poor dancer, he was near the top of the leaderboard consistently throughout. Kara walked season 8 from a technical perspective, Harry was only ever let down by Aliona's choreography (c/f Tango, Waltz, Freestyle etc) and when they were both on it as a pair, they nailed it (c/f Quickstep, Charleston) and Louis was technically better than Kimberley and surpassed only by DVO last year, he just lacked the acting side of it in earlier weeks.

So, there'll obviously be disagreements between who's the best dancer, it's completely subjective, but if it's one of Sophie, Abbey or Natalie then that trend will continue.

I'm sorry. I don't agree with you and I do understand how the transference of weight works in Rumba.

And Chris Hollins wouldn't have won

And there's the important sentence.

I disagree - she is being hampered by her health issues (she needs to be careful of her back - lots of painkillers & she needs to avoid overdoing things while on the painkillers - faints). Her performances before her health issues arose where more energetic, on edge and exciting. Since then her performances have been more controlled, safe & a little bit boring.

This is what she told everyone she had to do when she returned from the hospital - before she was a bit manic - even overworking Artem in training, but afterwards she said she accepts she has to switch to survival mode and reign in all that enthusiasm to ensure her body lasts the show.

I agree with Len.. Ashley should have gone through.. And angry or not the other judges are making up one rule for some and rules for others

Yes but my point is the difference between the top 3 (Sophie, Abbey, Natalie) isn't technical, whereas with Susanna and Patrick it is. They are the two weakest dancers technically

Where it comes into being subjective is who you then vote for when the technique is on a relative par. The example being Abbey's Salsa- I personally liked it, but other's hated it. Nobody questioned her technique, but the style and entertainment factor of it being a Salsa.

To this end, I'd vote for Sophie to win, I like her both technically and as a personality, but I wouldn't be miffed if Natalie or Abbey won because technically they're very sound dancers.

If Patrick or Susanna won, it's a Chris Hollins year again...

Well, it's not exactly a hard concept- but it is still possible to transfer weight stood on your heel. I never said the hip action would be as good if done this way, but it would still be there.


That is possibly what Artem's choreography is considering. But then again, some of the lifts they did in their AS weren't what you'd call easy, particularly given the nature of her health problems. I agree if you watch her week 1 CCC, the attack she had was phenomenal, and that was lacking a wee bit in her Paso last night. It's a good point though.

And, again, there's the pertinent sentence. It being a "Chris Hollins year" doesn't mean there's anything wrong. It's up to the public to vote for who they want to win, if Chris Hollins engaged more with the public then it's entirely irrelevant as to whether he was a technically poorer dancer.

I agreed with Len,
Natalie's wafting not dancing in hold.. And Patrick should have gone

Rather unhelpfully to my argument, whilst I was aghast when Darren beat Zoe and Colin, I did actually support Chris in the final, but only after Ali and Laila had left- mainly because I thought Ricky was overrated and shouldn't have made it to the final over the two girls.

However, the point still stands. It is highly regarded that series 7 was a low point in Strictly's history, probably a key reason why they revolutionised it in series 8. It was a series where 1 entertaining dance won the show as opposed to the best dancers. Yes, people say you can win/lose the title on the Freestyles, but usually, it's the best dancers in the final anyway!

I fail to see how someone's technique is entirely irrelevant! You may as well be saying someone can sit in the middle of the floor for 90 seconds, do nothing, get 4/40 from the judges, and then them winning is highly acceptable because the public voted for them!

And that would be perfectly within the parameters of the show

I also don't think Series 7 is particularly derided outside of these forums and the "revamp" for Series 8 consisted of set changes, swapping the backstage Tessanine in exchange for the Tess pit above the dance floor mostly. There weren't any obvious changes in the competition itself.

I doubt it, Len will be on the show for a long time, and rightly so.

If that's the case then maybe the main issue is with the fact they are dancing different styles of dancing.

Last week Patrick & Anya were my favourites (having what I called the wow factor) with their Charlston.

Within the parameters of the show, perhaps, but you can't then say their win is justified!

As I say, this isn't about who can or will win, only who SHOULD win, and that SHOULD rule out Susanna and Patrick! Of course if either of them do win, then fair play to them for playing the public votes system perfectly, but it wouldn't be a just win.

Of course you can say their win is justified. People are told to vote for their favourite not the best technically.

But it was before they started giving out their choices of who should be saved. I think it was after Ashley's dance so Patrick had not danced.

I think you're right. Len was willing Ashley to get it right and then he bailed on that final showy lift. It's much the same reaction as the judges had when Patrick's last lift went screwy in his American Smooth. In that case though, they were hoping it'd be a 10 dance, hence the big disappointment. In this case I can only surmise that Len really wanted Ashley to go through and realised that mistake was likely to mean he didn't.

[I thought the comments about showy crowd-pleasing lifts vs class were utterly out of order. It's hardly his fault he has to dance a Salsa, is it? Whilst the ones about audience vote were just so hypocritical after they'd manipulated the scoreboard to make Patrick less vulnerable and Ashley more vulnerable. ]

Maybe Patrick started doing heel leads as a way of trying to get more hip action?

What ever the reason, at the end of the day Ashley danced his Salsa much better than Patrick danced his Rumba. But hey ho! it's all over for another week.

I actually think Patrick was a bit upset by Len's nastiness.

spot on spin turn my brother rang last night and asked what Darcy was on marking heel leads with a 10

If patrick had not had heel leads he would have had better natural hip movement