I missed SCD on Saturday so just watching it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...es_11_Week_11/

Listening to the judges' comments they are so obsessed with lifts. I can't recall in the 25 years since I first danced salsa seeing a single lift.

So has this always been the case on SCD? Lifts hide the lack of dancing skills and I'd prefer dances without them. As it happens I thought Ashley's Salsa footwork was only slightly better than Michael Vaughn's.

Lifts seem to have crept into the Latin dances over the past couple of series, they rarely had them in the first few years of SCD.

I so agree . Ashley's dance was far too many time wasting lifts and armography .

They're a way of getting the audience to shout and clap.
The whole show is turning into some sort of tawdry low-rent circus.
Doubt if I'll follow it next year.

Lifts take dance to the next level. You don't often see lifts in Salsa simply because they are extremely difficult to achieve, are risky in terms of Health & Safety (hence only the most skilled & physically fit & strong can perform it) and require quite a bit of space on the dance floor.

It's the same with yogic flying - rarely do you see it in yoga classes.

I'm guessing that Ashley's jump to plant his crotch in Ola's face is not part of a typical salsa. That was the most curious manoeuvre I've ever seen on SCD. Thought it must have gone badly wrong first time round but seemingly it was choreographed. Why, I don't know. Not decorative. Not elegant. Not seductive or exciting. Just as-if yobbish and a bit rough in appearance, which is not how I've seen Ashley -- at all. Seems a nice, if low key kind of guy.

It didn't spoil the whole routine but it was an oddity

Social dances are usually more fun to do than to watch (the moves that impress me most from leads during dances are the very subtle ones, weight shifts, pauses and timing variations that just hit the music perfectly) so I can understand why lifts have been added.
It gives the wrong impression of what these dances are though, and as stated previously, are sometimes used to the detriment or in place of actual dancing (see Ben's Salsa, where he was tossing Kristina in the air as if she were a toddler, even I squealed with joy, and I'm a firm believer in the basics-done-well trump tricks-and-lifts philosophy).

I'd rather they weren't allowed until the show dance, but in can see why they want them on the telly.

My friend claims to still be 'bilious more than 24 hours later' due to that move,

I'm off to see if Aunty Google can put a name to it!

I couldn't agree more about all the lifts. Too many and too contrived many of them. I honestly thought Ashley had decapitated poor Ola with that lift. It has to have been a cock- up surely nobody would design a lift to look like that.

But the armography is absolutely integral to salsa. A lot of salsa is danced in a double hand hold and the weaving of the arms is a natural consequence of both couples doing turns within turns. I am sure if one were to put Setenta Complicado or Sombrero into U tube examples will appear. They are classic figures from salsa.

This silly term armography makes it sound like it is some sort of decorative add-on but it really is just what happens as two people joined by both hands turn relative to eah othr and turn withint the dance circle. If that makes sense.

The "Head in Crotch" Salsa manoeuvre was developed in Bangkok. I was surprised to see it being performed before the watershed. Although, I imagine it could shed a lot of water if performed incorrectly.


ps Would love to have an experts opinion on that - it seemed weird.

When I talk about armography that's not what I'm referring to though. I mean the sections of the routine when the none professional dancer usually stands still and waves their arms around or waves their arms around while walking side to side or front to back. I expect to see two people joining hands and doing complicated steps within the routine as that is an expected part of each individual latin dance. I expect botafogas and samba rolls, I expect intricate twists and turns in hold during a jive. I don't expect lifts and someone to stand still and waft about in any latin dance other than the rumba.

Do lifts make for a better dance for you? Lifts certainly take time out of the allocated dance time to divert attention from the footwork.

It is seldom advisable to go the "next level" whatever that is if the basic footwork isn't or cannot be mastered.

I think that would be the cabeza y polla complicada

I've seen that move done before in salsa swing and cabaret salsa routines.

Naively, I once thought it would be good to see parts of those routines used on Strictly.

Boy, do I now understand the meaning of the phrase "be careful what you wish for"...

I guess if theres lots of crotch to head happening its likely someone might Bangkok.

Leaving aside the danger on a crowded dance floor, I hate being lifted - totally freaks me out. I might cope in a pre-planned choreographed routine but I never do those. So a lift would be done to me not with me if you know what I mean. It seems an imposition almost a violation to presume to pick me up. I am even picky about who dips me (that's sounds like a euphemism )

But that's just me. As Betty says the thrill of salsa comes from hitting a musical flare spot on or doing a check just as the music changes direction or little interactions with the partner or simply reading ones partner. I danced with someone last night ( an regular partner I hadn't danced with for a while) and it was bliss we are so in step its like we are one person. Heaven.

Big snort LMAO - applause

IIRC it is called The Thai Sandwich.


Just had to wash my eyes out ...

Oh right I get what you mean. Sorry I misunderstood. I was thinking of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2N2YpjnoP8
But agree with you about wafting.

There is someone I know, from another, much smaller scene a few cities away who nearly always takes ladies off the ground while social dancing. I've been to his events and watched him do the same risky moves over and over on different follows, without their consent and it seems to me that it's almost as disrespectful as copping a feel on the dance floor, it's overstepping a boundary and it's not ok.

Demos, performances, jam circles, with an informed partner that you've practised it with, fine, but those circumstances are no longer social dancing anyway.

There is so much more to dance, that it's a shame to put so much emphasis on lifts - that goes for the pro dances this series as well.

(Bangkok joke made me audibly chortle too!)

I have no idea what that means but I wish I hadn't put it in google image search

Its so like life Betty. Those that can don't and those that do probably shouldn't

I saw someone do an impromptu flip of his partner that ended up stuck in the air for a short period of time with knickers revealed to everyone. The partner seemed upset and shortly left.

'Zactly. He overstepped the boundary. I hope it didn't put her off dancing.

Sorry I should have given a certification warning. It could have been far worse actually but I restrained myself.