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Continental Two-Pin Plugs in Converter |
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#1 |
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Continental Two-Pin Plugs in Converter
I've one or two devices that have a continental two-pin plug which has been clipped into a standard 13A converter plug. There is no indication of polarity, so does polarity matter when assembling these plugs?
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#2 |
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With an AC voltage there is no "polarity" as such.
Providing the UK adapter conforms to the relevant British Standard they are perfectly safe to use. I've got these from Amazon and they work perfectly: White 13A UK Visitors Travel Adaptor Converting European Schuko to Standard UK 13A Plug. |
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#3 |
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Yes, thank you for that, but what is puzzling me is this; if I wire up a standard 13A plug, I have to ensure that the live and neutral conductors are in the correct pins. Logically, then, should not the two-pin plug be inserted into the clips only one way so that this requirement is met?
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#4 |
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It depends how the bit of kit at the other end of the lead is designed. In many instances you may find a single pole switch that just switches the "live" with possibly a protective fuse also only in the live side.
If you reverse live and neutral wires in the plug the switch and fuse still work but when turned off, or if the fuse blows, more of the internal gubbins than should be will still have a potentially lethal live voltage on it than if it was wired correctly. If however the kit is fitted with a two pole switch that switches both "live" and "neutral" and has protective fuses in both legs then theoretically it doesn't matter which way round the live and neutral are wired in the plug. The point about anything designed with a non-polarised plug is that it has to be safe regardless of which way round you plug it up. The same is true of devices that have one of those two pole "figure of 8" mains connectors on the back. You can plug the lead in to those either way round. |
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#5 |
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The British wiring regs have traditionally been very hot on ensuring correct polarity in wiring systems and appliances - it was far more important in days gone by for various reasons too involved to go into here (and still is for wiring installations) - a lot more so than our continental neighbours.
However, for the purpose of AV equipment which goes straight into a switch mode power supply it doesn't matter one jot - in that sort of appliance it has no impact on operation or safety. If it really concerns you though, there's always the option of cutting off the continental plug (ensuring the pins are destroyed to stop it being plugged in with bare ends) and fitting a standard UK 13a plug with a 3/5 amp fuse. Last edited by daveyfs : 10-12-2013 at 13:40. Reason: beaten to it ;-) |
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#6 |
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Nice in theory Chris, but that's NOT how it works in practice.
For example, there have been a good number of TV's with single pole switches and fuses in the NEUTRAL only - it really doesn't make any difference, at least not to the end consumer. In the same vein, it makes no difference to an engineer either - none of whom would rely on the sets mains switch for mains isolation (and if they don't, then it's Darminism at work )As for the adaptors?, many UK items come with Shuko plugs and a pre-fitted adaptor, and I doubt there's any polarity concerns when it's fitted - and often it's on a figure 8 lead anyway. So for the OP, there's no concerns, it's fine either way. |
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#7 |
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Quote:
However, for the purpose of AV equipment which goes straight into a switch mode power supply it doesn't matter one jot - in that sort of appliance it has no impact on operation or safety.
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#8 |
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We brought some UK devices with us when we moved to Rhodes
These have 3 pin plugs which we plug into a 2 pin converter No rewiring was needed so I guess the reverse is also true |
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#9 |
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Quote:
I am sorry, but I have misled you all a bit. I posted to this section because there did not seem to be anywhere else for an electrical query. The two devices to which I am referring, are an electric foot warmer, and a garden vac, and so not AV.
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#10 |
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Quote:
We brought some UK devices with us when we moved to Rhodes
These have 3 pin plugs which we plug into a 2 pin converter No rewiring was needed so I guess the reverse is also true Change the plugs for local ones, which are almost cheaper than adapters anyway. |
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#11 |
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Quote:
I've one or two devices that have a continental two-pin plug which has been clipped into a standard 13A converter plug. There is no indication of polarity, so does polarity matter when assembling these plugs?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Euro-Pin-Con...ef=pd_sim_ce_6 It does not matter which way the 2 pin plug goes in in the same way as it does not matter when plugged into a 2 pin socket. But hey, these converters cost £2.49, you can buy 2 decent 13A plugs for that, or 5 cheaper ones. So why on earth don't you cut the 2 pin plug off and fit a UK 13A plug? |
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#12 |
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Quote:
But hey, these converters cost £2.49, you can buy 2 decent 13A plugs for that, or 5 cheaper ones.
Quote:
So why on earth don't you cut the 2 pin plug off and fit a UK 13A plug?
Because it's easier and possibly safer to use the adapter?
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#13 |
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Quote:
You can get them in pound shops.
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#14 |
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Never, ever use 3 pin to 2 pin converters. You lose the protective earth.
Change the plugs for local ones, which are almost cheaper than adapters anyway. ![]()
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#15 |
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Can the lack of protective earth be a fire hazard?
![]() ![]() The point of having an earth is that all exposed metal work on whatever is being powered is connected to this earth. If a fault occurs and the live voltage gets connected to the metalwork the voltage is safely shorted to earth and should also blow any protective fuses to remove the voltage. Even if you were touching the metal work at the time you should avoid a shock if the grounding is doing it's job properly. But if there is no connection to earth at the mains plug none of this may happen. So if you now touch the metalwork you get the full mains voltage flowing to ground via you! And believe me that is not pleasant and potentially fatal. |
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#16 |
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Never, ever use 3 pin to 2 pin converters. You lose the protective earth.
Change the plugs for local ones, which are almost cheaper than adapters anyway. Even in the UK garden appliances frequently have a 2 pin plug at the appliance end. The supplied wander socket on the cable is reversible. http://www.tooled-up.com/product/gar...FSoUwwodRlkA3g |
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#17 |
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Not relevant if the appliance is double insulated and only has a 2 core cable. Not sure about the foot warmer (unless it's a metal boot what is there to earth ?), the garden vac is almost certainly double insulated and should be used with a RCD device anyway.
Even in the UK garden appliances frequently have a 2 pin plug at the appliance end. The supplied wander socket on the cable is reversible. http://www.tooled-up.com/product/gar...FSoUwwodRlkA3g The OP, alycidon has a foot warmer and garden vac with 2 pin plugs that he wishes to use in the UK and is concerned about polarity when using an adapter. radio anorak however wants to do the reverse, devices with UK plugs in a 3 pin to 2 pin adapter for use in Rhodes. We don't know what these devices are, whether they are double insulated, or whether they have 2 or 3 core leads. Therefore my post is VERY relevant. QUOTE. Never, ever use 3 pin to 2 pin converters. You lose the protective earth. Change the plugs for local ones, which are almost cheaper than adapters anyway. |
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#18 |
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Quote:
You can get them in pound shops.
No what you get in pound shops are not these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Euro-Pin-Con...ef=pd_sim_ce_6 Because it's easier and possibly safer to use the adapter? |
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#19 |
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As for the adaptors?, many UK items come with Shuko plugs and a pre-fitted adaptor, and I doubt there's any polarity concerns when it's fitted - and often it's on a figure 8 lead anyway. http://www.fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/Overview.html |
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#20 |
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Re read the thread PROPERLY.
The OP, alycidon has a foot warmer and garden vac with 2 pin plugs that he wishes to use in the UK and is concerned about polarity when using an adapter. radio anorak however wants to do the reverse, devices with UK plugs in a 3 pin to 2 pin adapter for use in Rhodes. We don't know what these devices are, whether they are double insulated, or whether they have 2 or 3 core leads. Therefore my post is VERY relevant. QUOTE. Never, ever use 3 pin to 2 pin converters. You lose the protective earth. Change the plugs for local ones, which are almost cheaper than adapters anyway. |
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#21 |
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Quote:
You are confusing Schuko plugs (CEE 7/4) with 2 pin Europlugs (CEE 7/16). Schuko plugs have 2 pins and sliding earth contacts up the sides. CEE 7/16 Europlugs are 2 pin only.
![]() I didn't mean to say 'shuko' - which obviously wouldn't fit inside a 13A plug. |
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#22 |
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Quote:
Not necessarily, but it could become a shock hazard.
The point of having an earth is that all exposed metal work on whatever is being powered is connected to this earth. If a fault occurs and the live voltage gets connected to the metalwork the voltage is safely shorted to earth and should also blow any protective fuses to remove the voltage. Even if you were touching the metal work at the time you should avoid a shock if the grounding is doing it's job properly. But if there is no connection to earth at the mains plug none of this may happen. So if you now touch the metalwork you get the full mains voltage flowing to ground via you! And believe me that is not pleasant and potentially fatal.
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#23 |
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Have you ever been unfortunate enough to suffer from such a shock?
![]() ![]() I have worked in the Electricity Supply industry for donkeys years. In the old days, cable insulation wasn't the same as modern plastics. Vulcanised India Rubber was the insulator of choice, after a long period it gets hard and breaks off. Metal domestic kit like baths and sinks were not earth bonded. Fault detection was down to fuses with relatively long arc extinction times and incabable of detecting the very low currents involved in a human being connected a live conductor to earth. I have been involved in a fatal enquiry where a VIR cable was directly embedded in plaster behind a bath that became energised at 240V. Times have changed, modern cable insulation does not degrade (likely for centuries). All new installations have RCD (Residual Current Detection) which measure the current difference between the two conductors delivering the power, if a difference is detected, the current is going somewhere else (possibly through you). This is fast and capable of interrupting the current before it can kill you. Voltage won't hurt you, only the current it can generate. A static electricity shock can be thousands of volts, it can't generate any significant current, A few microamps discharges the voltage source. If you don't have a modern installation you can plug in RCD protection to kit that is vulnerable (like a lawn mower) which will protect you if you happen to cut the cable. To get a fatal shock you need to be in contact with a supply source that has an earth reference (without this no current can flow) and you need to be in a situation where you provide a return path. Before the days of health and safety, cable jointers worked bare hands on 415V by merely standing on a rubber mat. The 240V shaver socket in your bathroom has no earth reference, if you came into contact with one connection you will not get a shock. Birds sit on high tension lines without issue, Humans can do the same. Live working on 400Kv plus lines is relatively commonplace throughout the world. |
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#24 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
I have but clearly not fatally
![]() I have worked in the Electricity Supply industry for donkeys years. In the old days, cable insulation wasn't the same as modern plastics. Vulcanised India Rubber was the insulator of choice, after a long period it gets hard and breaks off. Metal domestic kit like baths and sinks were not earth bonded. Fault detection was down to fuses with relatively long arc extinction times and incabable of detecting the very low currents involved in a human being connected a live conductor to earth. I have been involved in a fatal enquiry where a VIR cable was directly embedded in plaster behind a bath that became energised at 240V. Times have changed, modern cable insulation does not degrade (likely for centuries). All new installations have RCD (Residual Current Detection) which measure the current difference between the two conductors delivering the power, if a difference is detected, the current is going somewhere else (possibly through you). This is fast and capable of interrupting the current before it can kill you. Voltage won't hurt you, only the current it can generate. A static electricity shock can be thousands of volts, it can't generate any significant current, A few microamps discharges the voltage source. If you don't have a modern installation you can plug in RCD protection to kit that is vulnerable (like a lawn mower) which will protect you if you happen to cut the cable. To get a fatal shock you need to be in contact with a supply source that has an earth reference (without this no current can flow) and you need to be in a situation where you provide a return path. Before the days of health and safety, cable jointers worked bare hands on 415V by merely standing on a rubber mat. The 240V shaver socket in your bathroom has no earth reference, if you came into contact with one connection you will not get a shock. Birds sit on high tension lines without issue, Humans can do the same. Live working on 400Kv plus lines is relatively commonplace throughout the world. ![]()
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#25 |
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I'll know who to blame if I have an electricity related nightmare tonight then!
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