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Sam Bailey and VERSATILITY
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noelw1969
13-12-2013
Originally Posted by mimik1uk:
“why do I need to name names ?

I was asked who I thought was an original artist and I said anyone who doesn't just do cover versions

that answered the question , and if you cant understand that then I don't think its my credibility that's in question

that could be anyone whether its someone I like or not so names are irrelevant , my point which you and the OP seemed to miss is that atm sam B is nothing more than a copycat of original artists, you might try and twist my words to imply she is good because she can copy different styles and still do it good but its not , she is still only copying, as a poster said above when she did my heart will go on she was even doing it in a Canadian accent as all she could do was copy celine dion's version

when she did candle in the wind she tried to copy the original but ended up just belting it out , the power ballad comment , which again you have misunderstood in your haste to defend sam at all costs, of course it wasn't a proper power ballad, the song doesn't allow that, but she still sang in that style as she wasn't able to sing it in the way it was intended so by default fell into what she knows best

as I have said many times now , she is good at what she does , she will be a deserving winner of the show should she win it, but until she shows she can do something original she will be nothing more than a second rate cover version singer”


She absolutely will be a deserving winner of the show. More deserving than others who have in the past.

Rest assured that she will do original material. I would ask that you save you wrath until the day she does.
Sara Webb
13-12-2013
Originally Posted by Tillymint82:
“You are definitly DEFINITYLY in a very very small minority”

Count me in with the small minority. I think Sam is a talented vocalist and wish her every success. She seems like a pleasant and down to earth character too. However, I find her performances quite dull. I suspect she'll win and will be successful, but I don't think it will last long. She has no unique selling point IMO.
Nastyman69
13-12-2013
I feel it is wrong when people say that artists like Sam will do covers - that is not the case - it feels like people are stereotyping Sam but maybe I'm wrong. If Sam brings out an album, surely there will be all originals and nothing else. Will it do well? I'll reserve my judgement on that
Sara Webb
13-12-2013
Originally Posted by David_Morgan:
“Probably, but it still needs to be better - made new and fresh and interesting. If she can't do that with CitW (and it is a big ask it is such a dreary song) then she should have picked another. Maybe that song where Fat Reg sang with Kiki out of Hector's House.




Yes - as long as it's better. A new, fresh interpretation. Better for now, not, necessarily, absolutely better. It could be simple - it is possible that a song could be made better by being made more dull; I'm no bigot.





They may have been upbeat at some point, but SB sucked the "up" out; what was left all sounded the same. Don't get me wrong - I loved No More Tears (always been one of my favourites), but she keeps doing the same thing in the same way and it's become dull. If you are male, ALL Whitney Houston songs sound the same. Really, they do. And Celine Dion - she sounds exactly like Whitney Houston to me.

And, honestly, do you really think that lot are upbeat? Try some Dubstep or just some good old fashioned drum&bass or some Trance. Try some classic metal or some Hardcore.”

Celine Dion's voice is nothing like Whitney Houston's, I liked Whitters but can't stand Celine's stuff. They are completely differentartists with very different styles, and has gender got to do with it anyway?
mimik1uk
13-12-2013
Originally Posted by Nastyman69:
“I feel it is wrong when people say that artists like Sam will do covers - that is not the case - it feels like people are stereotyping Sam but maybe I'm wrong. If Sam brings out an album, surely there will be all originals and nothing else. Will it do well? I'll reserve my judgement on that”

I haven't said she will only do covers

I said until I see her do something else than covers I am not going to anoint her as the next big thing like her delusional fan club are, as up til now she has only sounded like a copycat of original artists and until she can show she is capable of being original herself then that isn't going to be good enough

ffs I have said she is a good vocalist, but anyone with any sense whatsoever and watched these shows in the past will know that by itself is just not good enough to make it after the show in any meaningful way
Nastyman69
13-12-2013
Originally Posted by mimik1uk:
“I haven't said she will only do covers

I said until I see her do something else than covers I am not going to anoint her as the next big thing like her delusional fan club are, as up til now she has only sounded like a copycat of original artists and until she can show she is capable of being original herself then that isn't going to be good enough

ffs I have said she is a good vocalist, but anyone with any sense whatsoever and watched these shows in the past will know that by itself is just not good enough to make it after the show in any meaningful way”

Actually I wasn't aiming at you at all but I do read people comments regarding Sam doing covers though. I'm now coming to a conclusion that no one from this year's XF will have successful careers - the only one who may do is Tamera but there's a lot of work to be done on her and not a guarantee
David_Morgan
13-12-2013
Originally Posted by noelw1969:
“Sorry but that comment alone means that anything more you have to say on this thread is irrelevant and pointless. What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. I am male, a raging metal fan but most of my all time favourite songs are ballads.”

Dude, there might be children reading.
David_Morgan
13-12-2013
Originally Posted by Sara Webb:
“Celine Dion's voice is nothing like Whitney Houston's, I liked Whitters but can't stand Celine's stuff. They are completely differentartists with very different styles, and has gender got to do with it anyway?”

I can't explain it, I may even wish it weren't so, but there we are. It's a Y-chromosome thing. It's like the way women don't get hi-fi, probably something even gender reassignment can't fix.
steampunk13
14-12-2013
Originally Posted by Tillymint82:
“Im not interested in timid half speaking half trying to sing little girls, or 'pained' 20 something men with guitars and side burns giving fake 'feeling' and 'emotion' to boring songs.

I want big epic soaring ballads

Hipsters ruining music again with the 'feels'

Gimme a break”

Youtube isn't just a place for 'hipsters'. It's actually a stage where a lot of the artists can show off their voices for an audience. It is where a lot of the current contestants from X Factor, The Voice and even Britain's Got Talent are found. It is also a place where signed singers get to show off their music. It is also a place where a lot of other types of people can do something. Vloggers, performers, dancers, actors... anyone.

Sam is good, we are not saying she isn't. But she sings in the same predictable style which gets a bit boring. She doesn't emote or express the song in the way I want a singer too. She doesn't really tell the story that is meant to be told in the song. There is a disconnection there. Watch and actually LISTEN to Luke and Janet from last year, hear how even though they have their own style, there is something that connects them to the story of the song that changes how they express and perform the songs. There is a clear difference for those who really listen and understand music.

Listen to Sarah McLaughlan, Sinead O'Connor, Lena Park, Josh Groban, Lea Salonga, Gabrielle, Idina Menzel, Katherine McPhee, Megan Hilty, Sissel Kyrkjebø (the original singer who was meant to sing My Heart Will Go On, which was written for her). Compare these to Sam. There's a big difference in what they give to each of their songs that Sam doesn't. This is what we mean by versatility. Not that she can't sing different styles of songs, but that she isn't being versatile herself.
big bang theory
14-12-2013
Originally Posted by Tillymint82:
“So you want her to be diverse and sing different styles of songs [contemporary, upbeat, disco, ballad] but your not happy for her to sing them as they are you want her to change the songs so they don't sound like the originals.

But when she does that [candle in the wind] it takes away from the subtlety of the original?

Talk about making someone jump through hoops to impress you

I get the feeling that no matter what she did people would still find something to pick at her about.

As someone on here so eloquently put

'This is a competition.

When you compete, you go out there and do what you do best in order to win. You DON'T go out there and do stuff that would put you outside of your comfort zone just to please people.

You wouldn't see Wayne Rooney playing in goal just because people are fed up with watching him score goals.'”

The thing is Sam Bailey didn't change Candle In The Wind though, she just shouted all through the song imo which was painful to listen to.

In fact I would love to see some artistry from Sam Bailey with her changing styles of the original songs but she doesn't do that at all, and every time she does a modern song it sounds awful I think.
steampunk13
14-12-2013
Hang on.... I'm confused noel. You have put in reply to

Originally Posted by mimik1uk:
“if wayne rooney went out every week and did the same thing then defenders would know what to expect and be able to defend against him so he would quite quickly struggle to score goals

flawed analogy I'm afraid
”

this:

Originally Posted by noelw1969:
“My analogy is bang on.

When someone is good at something you don't put them in a different department. Thats a fact and whether you like it or not, the same goes for Mr. Rooney. He is a striker and you need him to keep scoring regardless of how boring it might become.

Likewise, Sam NEEDS to keep doing what she does best regardless of how boring it becomes.
”

But I thought it was Tillymint82 who made that analogy? The way I have read it implies something else.

Anyway what Mimiuk is basically saying is even though he is a striker, he doesn't play using the same tactics or pattern as he has before, otherwise the opposing team will know what to expect and how to out-play him every time. You (and Tillymint) are saying 'as long as he scores goals what does it matter'. In order for him to keep scoring those goals against other players he'll have to change tactics and mixing gamestyle up.

Understand?
noelw1969
14-12-2013
Originally Posted by steampunk13:
“Hang on.... I'm confused noel. You have put in reply to



this:



But I thought it was Tillymint82 who made that analogy? The way I have read it implies something else.

Anyway what Mimiuk is basically saying is even though he is a striker, he doesn't play using the same tactics or pattern as he has before, otherwise the opposing team will know what to expect and how to out-play him every time. You (and Tillymint) are saying 'as long as he scores goals what does it matter'. In order for him to keep scoring those goals against other players he'll have to change tactics and mixing gamestyle up.

Understand?”


It is my analogy as I used it in another thread and Tillymint used it for the opening post on this thread.

My point is that versatility is all very well which is why they have all the themed weeks but when you get down to it, artists do what they do best. Mariah Carey, for instance, does pop. She doesn't do Jazz or Metal or Bluegrass. She does pop. Wayne Rooney is a striker. Not a defender or a goalkeeper.

In terms of mixing it up when you're put in the same positiopn each week, then Sam has done just that with the music she has done. The one thing she won't do is change her voice to get different sounds and effects. She sings how she sings, exactly the same as anyone else out there.
cas1977
14-12-2013
Originally Posted by Tillymint82:
“So you just want to be controversial and deliberately provocative because its not what everyone else is doing?

Thats how hipsters think

Sam has been PERFECT

note perfect
tone perfect
timing perfect
performance perfect

no more to say

she's the best and deserves to win”

I can see you really like sam bailey but to say that in everything she does is perfect, is a bit OTT. Because at the end of the day noone is actually perfect.......especially when you talk about her performance etc. How can she be perfect, she isnt even an established artist yet! And you wont agree, but her stage presence and dancing are both crap.
WhyHelloWorld
14-12-2013
Originally Posted by cas1977:
“I can see you really like sam bailey but to say that in everything she does is perfect, is a bit OTT. Because at the end of the day noone is actually perfect.......especially when you talk about her performance etc. How can she be perfect, she isnt even an established artist yet! And you wont agree, but her stage presence and dancing are both crap.”

Did the other poster say Sam B is perfect as a human?

Because she has hit every note perfectly, sung in time perfectly, remembered all lyrics perfectly and has pretty much been perfect IN THIS COMPETITION.
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