Must admit I am not wild about the faffing about either, and I agree - it's all gone a bit free and easy now.

Ballroom dances are beautiful in their own right and to see them done well is heaven. Whe you add stupid props, mad costumes and a whole load of gimmickery it just ruins the pleasure of watching the movement.

We're talking about people on this show?
No disputing the Pro can lead. I very much doubt the celeb can in the right way.
They do not have the skillset or experience. The Pro can lead the celeb of course, in the routines that the celeb knows, but would they have the skill to follow the Pro if he did not follow the routine and made it up as he went along? No, again I doubt it.
There is no disputing that the male Pro will make the female celeb look better than they are, that is a given.
No I don't beleive I under estimate people at all. I know from my own experience in teaching and even speaking to people at work. They do not understand that you dance to a timing and rhythm, they find it incredible that I can dance to music I have not heard before. They think that you have to have set steps to a particular piece of music. Once it is explained, then that is different, but to the ordinary person, no, they do not realise or know the difference between the dances when they hear music.
A Waltz in its simplest sense at beginner level is not complicated I agree, not sure of the point here, but to dance it well, is not as easy as most like to think.

No, I am talking about people in general - a someone who has taught a rather large number of people to dance ballet, salsa and ballroom.

Jennifer, you really have to allow people to have alternative views to your own, otherwise you will keep going around in circles trying to prove you are the only one with the answers. You are not.

Also, with the best will in the world, ballroom is not the only dance form and it's rigidity only exists in the world of medals and competition.

Dance, in the true sense of the word, is a form of human expression and can be beautiful in its simplest form, without the hint of a sequin in sight.

I do accept others have opinions and that is fine, I have no problem with that. But it is you not me that is trying to state a fact that is simply not true.
You are saying that you can pick anyone off the street, play them some music and they will know what dance it is. I am saying that they will not - mostly.
For example if I played my non dancing colleague at work two or three pieces of music and asked her to tell me what dances they were. I could guarantee that she would not be able to.
If you are musically trained or have taken dance lessons, that is a different matter.
No-one has worn sequins for years.

Apologies for taking over your thread Henry, and going off topic. I am expecting Sofakat to come back with something, but I respond no further.
Happy AT dancing

You can lead a horse to water but ....

I posted more or less this elsewhere but ...

the main point of being a man in AT (and of course generally in life) is not to be noticed by anybody watching but to make the woman look good; and so in AT generate further dances with women looking who will also want to look just as good.

The beauty in AT is that a bloke gets to hold a long series of wonderful women in his arms for 12 minutes at a time without buying any of them a drink, nor having to listen to any of them, nor generating noisy demanding children or even buying them all half a house. Bliss

{I'll hide now in anticipation of incoming flak ... ]

NOOOO! Don't go. We love you. It was getting incestuous. And I wouldn't dream of dancing with my sister.

{I have blurted out "he looks like he is dancing with his sister"]

Or indeed sequences. I hate it when followers go off on a sequence without my lead. I immediately put them into reverse mid-sequence and segue into something completely different perhaps in a tangential direction.

And its coming.

*Checks stockpile of flak. Decides it isn't big enough. Wanders off in search of more*

I agree with Henry. Please don't go. You and Sofakat are two of the posters I most admire and listen to on the forum.

Reading the exchange it seems to me there is more that unites the two of you than divides you. We certainly all benefit from the obvious passion you both feel for dance.

We already lost Spin Turn from this forum and it is sad to think of the two of you falling out.

No,not leaving the forum...just this thread as I can't ( and shouldn't) contribute..
You'll see me popping up elsewhere !

You will miss me chastising Henry later!

[Still hiding. keeping very still ... ]

I suspect you are right. AT Show-dance looks much bigger and better to the untrained eye on TV or even in the audience.

They led me to dance AT not long ago but now I would not dream of watching Flavia and Vincent on youtube let alone pay £40-£50 to see them live.

I don't even care to watch my own AT teachers do a show demo after a class. I prefer to watch people slightly better than me so I can make an incremental improvement..

For me dance is mainly about doing. I watch to be able to do better.

indeed, and i can't understand why some seem to spend most of their time belittling, denigrating, carping, sneering and bitching from the sidelines. it must be difficult to be so perpetually disappointed in life.

So true.

Did you read some of the comments about Saturday's fabulous show?

What on earth do some folk want?

Looking forward to that

OK finally watched Simon & Kristina on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KASm3hQ9_Y

0:00 start and faffin abaht
0:11 one hand hold; then arms wrapped around and a drag
0:15 open embrace
0:16 out of hold and solo dancing
0:19 one handed stuff
0:27 open embrace
0:34 out of embrace into "practice embrace"
0:37 lift
0:39 open embrace
0:42 practice embrace
0:55 lift
1:03 open embrace
1:10 dancing apart
1:13 her back to him (dogging symbolism?) ending in outstretched one armed contact
1:22 open embrace
1:26 practice embrace
1:35 lift
1:42 end

So nothing at all in close embrace, 22 secs in open embrace.

It wasn't Argentine Tango as seen in a milonga near you. But good fun and a few sightings of Kristina's Krotch which I am not going to object to. I missed the hair sniffing and Klose-up of the Kristina Kleavage. Wardrobe re getting prudish.

It wasn't AT but a great show-dance with hints of AT. They came aaht and have us wurtcha as Len could say. And quite a few bits redolent of AT - ochos, ganchos, volcadas, colgadas, lustradas, sacadas and voleos. Might even be led to say "Hey that Rumba looked a bit like an AT". And that AT style Rumba was great to watch and easily deserved three perhaps four 10s.

Note this was an AT taught by a pair of AT professionals. They are taking the piss. I could have done a much "better" job at choreography. Or even Kristina given her 40 point dance with Jason.

But my version would have struggled to get three 5 points rather than three 10s. But I am sure I could have done it even better - basically more Krotch, lots of Kleavage and more dogging. That's show business.

Wait for the influx of new AT students. Thanks to the best Rumba ever seen on Strictly.

Wurtcha.

PS I know AT is very difficult to get to grips with. So why do the fake piss-take? Dance something else easier. I am sure I could choreograph a waltz or Quick-step that featured Krotches and Kleavages and thereby generate the points.

as homer simpson once said: "kids you tried your best and you failed miserably. the lesson is - NEVER TRY"

I think I'll do brain surgery tomorrow ... I might get away with it.

Hey it was a great Rumba. I loved it more than any other Rumba on SCD ever. It should have got 40 points as an AT Style Rumba show-dance. They did a great job. Whatever it was, it was great to watch.

lol. yes cos thats completely equivalent isn't it.

never mind. soon be over.

It may not have been an AT... definitely was NOT a rumba either.

Thanks. SCD should make Rumba look like that maybe? It'll then generate 40s instead of being a Dance of Death.

The best way to enjoy SCD dances is to treat them all as West End show-dances perhaps redolent of AT, Rumba, Waltz or whatever or a bit of everything.

As a nameless show-dance I enjoyed it very much. 40 points.