I don't mind what any thread is called, but please don't kick me out of here! I do want to try AT, the only thing stopping me is I realise that it is a dance that requires some dedication and I just don't have the time!

Fanwarz seem less pronounced this year (although it is still early!) maybe people feel less defensive because all of the competitors have ability?

I hope so!

Even if I had kicking out power - which I wouldn't want, I wouldn't dream of it.

OK the title stays but feel free to go off into other dances. Some questions for the panel:

How many lifts are allowed in Bhangra / Bollywood?

How many plates can be thrown in this Saturday's Sirtaki (aka Argentine Tango in SCD).

How much Ouzo should I drink before the show?

Nooooooo! Don't you dare go I love learning about a dance style I know very little about and I love reading your posts.

Henry - let her stay please .

AT takes forever, and ever. Like years. Even for me with my backrgound. Wait until you're older DB

In the meantime keep hitting that floor girl!

Anyone have any thoughts on Kizomba?

AT is just ridiculous. It sounds so elitist to say it takes years. But it happens to be true. And it is like a drug and you end up going several times a week when it begins to click. And my phone has no space left in the memory because it is packed with AT music. And i can't listen to AT without sketch choreographing dances.

Of course in real life it gets a bit like dodgems with couples reversing and women with new found boleo skills swinging their stillies all over the place so braking and going off at an angle are important and ruin pre-prepared plans.

No wonder the Argentinians themselves hardly do it any more.

I regularly roll up the carpets and dance salsa at home or at friends' homes after dinner. Can't do that with AT.

Mind you everybody's wife has asked me for AT lessons ...

You could. You just need a bigger house!

I have a Spanish friend who teaches Flamenco. I help her organise peñas - She does the peña and I do the org! (we all have our own gifts ) I gather from visiting guitarists and singers that she is considered to be a bit of a maestra back in Spain. Yet she says she is a student of Flamenco because she says Flamenco is a life long journey that you never complete.

Perhaps this idea of art that you are forever adding to rather than an accomplishment that can be completed applies to AT.

I love the Angolan version, which is amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUN3q6ey0Wk

But it got wrecked in transition -

I loathe and detest the overblown version they do in parts of Europe and the UK which is this, which is hardly a social dance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9PMnJfmTGE

She is right about flamenco.

And you are absolutely right about AT. You never stop learning and all my AT teachers have said this to me.

Seems like there are rebotes arrastres, giros, sacadas, ganchos. colgadas, volcadas. All this with passion. I can do passion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MYJHRTL_wM

Ahh so there is something genuine underpinning it is there? I took classes about 4 years ago when it was the latest thing. I lasted about 6 lessons. It seemed like a dance without language. I soon got fed up of being manhandled (forced) around the dance floor and having to hop as I was dragged against my standing foot or got my toes kicked owing to an arbitrary and uncommunicated weight change.

I thought perhaps it was a bit ragged because it was still emerging and the teachers were as yet students themselves. I decided to let it settle a bit. However I popped into a kizomba room at a salsa gig and it looked like the school disco, couples in clinches not moving very much at all. All jolly confusing.

Over here it is a big excuse for groping and not much else. No one has a clue what they are teaching and I have never, ever seen a genuine version danced over here, but I have in Portugal - by Angolans!

Bachata is the same. The real Domenican version is beautiful, but the one they dance/teach in the UK is pathetic. More groping, but this time with leg cocking to the side like a dog peeing on a bush. A million miles removed from the real thing.

Even the music for both dances has been dumbed down and is now saccarine disco Eurotrash with some truly awful singing. An awful lot of salsa events now play both and I just sit them out.

There is no way I will dance kizomba with some ageing Lothario stranger in a bad flowered shirt.

Erm, no, that is not a real kizomba. That is a 'make it up as you go along and add whatever you want into it and then flog it to the masses who do not know any better' pile of poo.

It is essential to pick a partner with a very round posterior who will wear shiny skintight jeans and then shake her booty a lot. There are droves of them about looking for a husband and they dance quite well.

The whole point is to look as seductive as you can so no one will notice that you are not actually a dance teacher but you know sex sells so you will do whatever it takes to flog it.

Real dancers will think you are a j**k and laugh and point. You will last for about two years (and get through at least 4 booty partners) until the next craze hits the country. Then you will be toast.

Now I enjoy an occasional bachata, but I only really dance it with my SO. We are so in tune that I know he is going to change direction 3 steps before he does and so it is a few minutes of pure synchronised smooth as silk heaven. I have no idea how it looks and don't much care. It feels nice.

But you have reminded me of the leg cocking. I had forgotten. You are right it looked awful. When it fist emerged the peeing dog was exactly the image it brought to my mind. The fourth beat was a sort of hop, leg lifty thing. Funnily enough I haven't seen anyone do that for ages now. People seem more inclined to keep their feet on the floor and just swing the hip out instead. I wonder how/when/why that happened.

BIB Ohh goody. I am in then! Where do I sign? By round I mean uhmmm big!

Ha! I was thinking that looked like international Bachata as basically a lot of bumping and grinding.

Thanks for that Angolan link. Nice music.

I haven't knowingly listened to Angolan music but have a lot or Morna - Cesaria Evora ++
And Soukous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvAuQJGs1b4

For some years I have been buying my Sherry from Lebrija (much better and more traditional than mass market stuff from Jerez).

Apparently Lebrija is the centre of Flamenco. Ask your friend if that's right.

You could be right. In the interests of science I found another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C85GGTHSbRg

Platinum blonde TICK

in skin tight shiny jeans TICK

with firm rounded posterior TICK

I didn't notice the bloke ...

The funny thing about that dance is everybody is filming it with their iPhones.

Hmm I am not falling for that one. I once innocently said something about Paella being from Valencia to people in the Catalonian countryside - a village near Sant Sadurní d'Anoia as it happens. It nearly started WW3, except they were all on the same side. Essentially the narrative was 'Those Valenciano's know nothing'. I kid you not people were coming out of their houses to add their twopenneth to the debate in the street!

My friend is from Cadiz area so I am keeping schtum!

Nooo. better not. Lebrija is in Sevilla province.

Yes Paella is a very touchy subject.. A bit like our discussions on AT I suppose. I think my Chicken Tikka Paellas are just perfect. But my wife and other Spanish people say:

¡ That's not a real Paella !

Just the sort of people who would object to Sirtaki style AT.

EDIT

Funny just remembered that I got involved in a similar discussion about rice in Reus in September. They kept going on about Catalan Ebro Arroz. I just thought they were regionalist nutters and nodded sagely.

LMSO Now that would alienate most of Spain. Quite a recipe for a diplomatic incident. It sounds rather tasty though

Well the other thread has been renamed - on the back of suggestions by a few of us.

So as to broaden this and prevent it getting too cliquey I think I should go ahead and reference other dances to invite others in.

So maybe

Argentine Tango, Salsa, Swing Talk

That's broad enough. I don't think Merengue, Cumbia and Bachata need to be explicitly mentioned.

I will certainly look into the other thread but I have not danced ballroom other than an hour during University Intro Week so I won't contribute much.

Should I include Sirtaki in the title or does that come under AT?

*pokes head round door*

May I join you? Don't know very much about AT, yet! but I love watching it. I'm interested in all sorts of dance forms, learning about them and how they link up and influence each other...

Some of you know my background from elsethread, but I am currently learning swing dance. I'm a relative beginner but danced lots of ballet and modern in years gone by.



PS Henry I am looking forward to learning some of the (SCD) answers to those questions on the show... And as for how much ouzo - lots, surely

Cross-posted with you there Henry, sorry!

Night all.

Yes please do. The welcome mat is out to all.