Thanks for that. By my understanding the nuevo open embrace is more common on SCD, but thank you for the detailed synopsis on their hold.


So what's your opinion on their technique?

You can use open or close hold in AT, and you are right, open hold, nuevo-style AT is the one most used on SCD ATs. I think this is because, unlike the genuine AT, SCD choreo includes far more flashy moves than we would ever go for. The GBP want them: it's as simple as that. In order to do them you have to dispense with the true milonguero style which is a close, very intense style. Nuevo dancers are a lot more 'out there' and do a lot more leg flinging!

Their technique was not perfect by any means, but what they did manage to convey was the intensity of their connection, a subtle response to the music and the right awareness of each other on the floor. Her legs and feet were beautiful. She has amazing extensions and she picked up the trick of really using the floor and drawing out her leg movements. Her feet have always been fabulous. I'd like to have seen a few more adornos though.

The pauses were good - there are always pauses in AT - and the choreography interesting. It included enough genuine tango movements to make it work, but none of the made-up ones so often seen in SCD ATs. I'd like to have seen more sacadas, amaques, maybe a media luna and some great axis turns, but these are tough for a beginner and demand great balance and practice.

Suffice it to say there was enough content to lend the dance it's particular style of complex interaction between two people and smooth, seductive walking and turning which is at the core of the AT. Not a bad job at all.

You know Henry. I didn't think it was all that bad. Allowing for the context etc I quite enjoyed it. I could pick lots of faults and I take your point that at times it seemed to be more of a dance with music than dancing the music but I think Caroline did alright. (Lovely legs and feet)

In fact I took a leaf out of the SCD book myself last night at our Latin flavoured party. I had one AT with one of our students who isn't a very confident lead yet. He is still in that "I can't think of anything to do next" place. The other people at this party don't know what to look for, so we busked for all we were worth. Each time he got stuck I just did some (not lead) ochos, boleos and pasted on a few random decorations. Nobody except the two of us noticed!!

I agree with you about her feet and legs. She places her feet beautifully. I think some of the collects could have been closer but I have only whizzed through last nights dances briefly. This may be why I didn't notice the pauses particularly but agree that is a really important past of AT and one I find many leads fail to recognise. They put themselves under loads of pressure trying frantically to remember 'moves' ('sequences' that mostly are nothing more than a teaching aid in class or as I call them 'serving suggestions for the basic ingredients). A few well timed pauses I think is something they would find relieved the pressure.

As I say I only watched once - scanned really and maybe I was focussed on Caroline (because focus on the lady is what one does) but I thought she looked batter than Pasha or should I say - the lovely Pasha.

Re Media Luna - and good knees. My right knee doesn't cope with them well.

My critique of your critique

Mimi - you rock!

I thought she did too!

Yep, the knee thing. Join the club - me too. But I love that move!

Henry hope you won't be offended at being teased. Take it as a compliment that MImi has remembered so many of your previous posts - quite flattering when you think of it like that. I wish people remembered and requoted me in satire.

Mimi - Brilliant and very funny. I had completely forgotten the sock discussion

I do too. It looks lovely. I pretend not to pick up the lead. its so subtle it can easily be missed so even though I hear it I duck it.

Anything I can do Sofakat to condition the knees. I think doing Media Luna repetitely , which I would need to, to get it right is forcing bit that shouldn't to pop out around the knee joint. It feels like my knee is about to get a hernia if that makes sense.

I have a photographic memory for mindless trivia, but a complete inability to remember any of my family's birthdays or other important facts

Knees are a bugger but suggestions for how to deal with them depend what the problem is. Mine is cartilage and a loose bit of bone from years of pointe work and just age. There is no cure but keyhole surgery sadly. - which I cannot afford privately. Just the right knee is out.

I would not presume to offer advice until you know what the problem is for you. Knees do just wear out. My best advice is to go to a good osteopath and find out. Best way to do this is to visit the brilliant British School of Osteopathy where you can get treated by senior students under the watchful eye of an experienced tutor.

My osteo is a lecturer there and also has his own practice in Harcourt St. London W1, but it's quite expensive. The school costs a lot less and you will get tender loving care there. Or find yourself an osteo closer to home. Make sure they have BSO after their name and do not be tempeted to go to a chiro () or a physio. The former are bone vandals and the second have limited knowledge on tricky injuries and diagnoses.

Sensible advice and appreciated. I don't think my issue is skeletal. I suspect something to do with soft tissues. I thought at one time it was a bursitis ( is that the right word) I was convinced I could feel a fleshy lump with my finger. On the other hand it seems to manifest itself in different places around the knee and I am not sure that bursitis is known for its nomadic tendencies. You are right I need to see someone in person. I tend to believe that everything can be solved by the right exercise but perhaps I should just accept that I am not 25 any more ( in my head I am) and accept that some limitations are inevitable. and be grateful that they are so few.

Watching Jeanette and Jake's Charleston tonight on catch up it suddenly struck me why I have a problem with Janette. Does anyone else feel she is more acrobat/gymnast than dancer?

As I derailed the thread for Caroline's AT, I thought I'd bring DiamondBerry's answer back to the right place:


I'd love to see a review on all the Charlestons. I know I liked the Charlestons choreographed by Bill Deamer much more than those by Ryan Francois as I don't go for the really goofy stuff - what's your opinion?

Yep. I just put something that alluded to this on the Caroline AT thread - the lifts were not dance appropriate or period appropriate - they were, however, appropriate to the circus theming.

Acrobatics, essentially.

Aw, thanks!

(Now I feel like I am my own echo though! )

Ryan's have more recognisable steps (Patrick's from 2013 is a good example) but Bill's are generally more stylish and probably better suited to SCD.

This year most have been by Jenny Thomas, Ryan's former partner, assisted by Scott Cupit.

To be fair, I probably shouldn't have mentioned Ryan, just I think someone mentioned that Jake's Charleston was choreographed by him. I see from twitter that Bill choreographed Caroline, Pixie and Thom, so I'm assuming Jenny choreographed Frankie, Simon?

I remember Patrick's, I liked it.

I don't like the goofy ones. As effectively confirmed by Bruno, gurn harder and you get better marks. However, as that was the kind pioneered by Chris Hollins, I wonder if that's what people expect?

I would too. Please Betty.

Yes and it was much the same for that "amazing" salsa. It owed more to her acrobatic skills than his dancing. I feel that maybe her abilities, which are extraordinary, take precedence. So in effect the celeb just becomes a prop for her special talents at the expense of learning any actual dancing. If so this would seem to short change her celebs.

Who did she have last year? I forget now.

She had Julien McDonald, so not much hope of progressing.

Janette is very flexible, and very strong in her body. What she can do in lifts is amazing, or her backbend thing in their salsa. But I really don't rate her much beyond that. She has said she teaches steps first and then technique, which I feel must be wrong for putting it into your muscle memory correctly. I'm not sure how much she is showcasing herself, or she just can't think of anything better. He does very little dancing in any of his routines (though perhaps more in the Charleston than usual) but provide a backdrop for Janette.

(Can you tell I'm not a fan? )

I think this is a perfectly valid critique. I think Janette is adorable, and clearly very talented. I don't think she has enough relevant experience to be a pro on Strictly though, because it's a very particular skill set. Teacher, dancer, choreographer, best friend, companion, confidante, rule maker, task master, and when all else goes to poop, camouflager, defender and counsellor. And show off.

Flavia had it.
Natalie has it.

Kristina has it (and we didn't even notice/credit her for having it).

I suspect Joanne has it.

Erin almost had it (Latin being the issue).

I think Anya has most of it, but not the showy bit.

The male pros have quite a different job to the female ones, so I'm leaving them to the side.

Yes I agree. the celeb is a pole for her thing and in this case her thing isn't dancing. This is a critique I have made in the past re Ola and Kristina (the latter I have withdrawn this year) but at least Kristina did dance around her pole men.

I guess you have to teach some steps in order to have some place to put technique ( like you need a canvas to use your brush technique on) but I agree that teaching the routine and then pasting in technique doesn't appear to make much sense. But this might be a short circuit system to deal with the short time frame for learning. After all they are not learning to dance as much as learning to perform a routine.

isn't the method of teaching steps then adding technique as an afterthought likely to lead to bad habits? i mean bad habits such as knee and foot placement which if continually done incorrectly can stress and damage joints ? i would have thought basic principles massively important then you don't have to keep teaching it over and over again when they revert to the bad habit they've become comfortable with.

Just to qualify my previous post. I didn't mean to imply that Jeanette can't dance or even that she doesn't. I just mean that the thing that makes her stand out or unique seems to be the aerials and acrobatics rather then the dance technique etc.

I would have thought so P. It takes time to create what they call muscle memory and even longer to undo it once created.

I originally learned salsa from a ballroom teacher. it took me longer to undo the wrongness than it did to learn.