• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • TV
  • Strictly Come Dancing
worst choreographer of the series?
<<
<
3 of 6
>>
>
holly berry
18-12-2013
It's difficult because we can only guess at how bad the celebs really are but:

Kristina - for using Ben as a gymnastic apparatus.

Pasha - for not tailoring his choreography to Rachel's abilities and thus leaving her exposed.

Aliona - for not enabling Tony to lift the glitterball that he had set his heart on
DiamondDoll
18-12-2013
Must say I am surprised that this series is finishing with me disliking Artem and his choreography.

Natalie is very talented but I don't think Artem did her any favours with his rule-breaking and, as Len would say, his 'faffing about'.
shrinkingviolet
18-12-2013
Same as most for me - Pasha & to a lesser extent Artem. This is the first year where I have been completely detached from pretty much all Artem's dances - apart from the rumba and AT. I mean the dances were still good, but I just wasn't captivated which I should have been.

Pasha just didn't seem to get Rachel - I guess as much as some celeb's may need a certain type of pro to progress, some pro's may need a certain celeb personality type to really get inspired as well. It happens.

I actually find it hard to crit a lot of the pros this year because of how hampered I feel most have been with some of the themes/songs they've been given. I really hope that aspect is addressed next season so that if I find a dance awful I at least know it's all on the pro, not them making the best of the producer's trying to hobble them.
fatskia
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“Rachel was the worst woman by far in the opening celeb routine for the series. Dave levels of crap. She might not be a duffer in the classical sense, and I don't think that Pasha did particularly good work with the choreography, but she was still a test even if she was young and pretty.”

Yes. Duffers aren't really a clearly defined category.

A total duffer can hardly walk, cant keep time with the music, cant remember routines, has difficulty with left and right, no fitness, no balance, no co-ordination.
Basically me after a good night out. Even Dave doesn't qualify as a total duffer.

Rachel did do a good Waltz right at the start. That tends to indicate that she wasn't a hopeless case. She hadn't danced before and that is a big factor. She was also working 2 jobs in different cities. She probably needed 8 hours a day 7 days a week with a 6 week lead in to Strictly and she could probably have danced reasonably well and not looked too out of place amongst the girls.

Some of the music choices Pasha and Rachel got were dire. A Paso to Maneater??? The only complaint I really had about the choreography for Rachel was that it was too fast.
olivej
18-12-2013
Artem - arm swooshing anyone?

Pasha - I dont think he did Rachel any favours at all

Ola - I know she was limited on training time but knee slides, bum wiggling in Ashleys face, drunken sailers, same old boring choreography all the time

Kristina - I dont think she did Ben any favours tbh, he wasnt a great dancer but there are only so many times you can use him as a pole to dance around
kaycee
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Sofajudge:
“I think we get that you don't like Brendan but in fairness I believe that many of the pros have had help with choreography.

And the mannequin was inspired as for me he was giving critics the finger. ”

BIB - over the years, most of them.

When you consider that a lot - most - of the pros had never danced Charleston, salsa, Argentine Tango, they all had to have lessons along with their celebs.

Some of the pros were mainly Latin dancers and had to have assistance with the ballroom; Brendan for example has gone from being basically just a Latin dancer when the show began, to one of the best ballroom dancers on the show now. He didn't do that without taking instruction.

Likewise the ballroom dancers have help with the Latin. Unfortunately, that is something Anton has never done which is why, in 10 years, 11 series, his Latin is as bad as ever.

I think it is a shame that some of the "background" coaches don't get some mention occasionally!
claire2281
18-12-2013
For me it's definitely Artem because it's stopping Natalie from winning imo. Her dances are just - despite the faffing about - bland and I don't see much evidence that he connects with or really uses the phrasing of the music properly. Very disappointing.
molo flapian
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by olivej:
“Artem - arm swooshing anyone?

Pasha - I dont think he did Rachel any favours at all

Ola - I know she was limited on training time but knee slides, bum wiggling in Ashleys face, drunken sailers, same old boring choreography all the time

Kristina - I dont think she did Ben any favours tbh, he wasnt a great dancer but there are only so many times you can use him as a pole to dance around”

He is Master of Arms

Agree on all your points - one person (aside from Patrick) I do wish had lasted longer was Rachel and thinking back,
Pasha maybe tried to make her run before she could walk. Shame.

Also not liking Aljaz's routines much. Competent but meh to me.
Good solid basic in there but lots of repeats and a bit samey. There's no wow for me.
I will be in the minority with that view, no doubt,
tis okay, but give me Anya's moments of madness and exquisite detail in even the littlest of moves anytime
*Topaz*
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“For me it's definitely Artem because it's stopping Natalie from winning imo. Her dances are just - despite the faffing about - bland and I don't see much evidence that he connects with or really uses the phrasing of the music properly. Very disappointing.”

I'm sorry but Artem is not stopping Natalie from winning - he could have choreographed all traditional routines for her, but she would still have had to face the social media/tabloid inflamed controversy over the prior dance training in her youth.

I do like Artem but I wouldn't say I'm a massive fan of his - I've been hot and cold towards him over the years but this year I've basically warmed to him again. I think he's got some unfair flack on here over his choreography - I think he's done some lovely routines with Natalie and I do think they've connected well and have great chemistry on the dance floor.
Lamballe
18-12-2013
I love Ola and I know Ashley's time constraints will have played a big part, but her choreography was not up to scratch this year. Pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot, knee choreography, pivot. I was disappointed.

Aljaz's choreography is often dull but I wouldn't say it was bad. It's a shame because he and Abbey look absolutely stunning together but I can't think of any "wow!" moments from any of their routines, choreography wise.

Kristina is great at choreographing for herself. For her partners, not so much. That has ALWAYS been the case, every year. I don't know why people overlook it at the start of every series and think she's capable of anything more than self-presentation.

As for Kevin, his occasional manic over dancing is the problem, not the choreography itself.
Malik24
18-12-2013
Ola's choreo was repetitive rather than being all that bad. Just disappointing, but maybe understandable given the time constraints. Aljaz fits into the same mold of 'not bad but uninspiring' choreo for me.

Anyway, Robin (his repetitive choreo actively detracts IMO) / Artem (party Latins ok, Ballrooms too samey) / Kristina (can't help feeling Ben with Natalie Lowe would have done more dancing...) for me. Pasha comes close to making list but he had little to work with so meh. None of Janette's routines were good either but not enough of a spread to be sure.
Christa
18-12-2013
Oh Kevin, hands down, no question. In fact he gets a prize for being one of the worst choreographers ever on Strictly, including Aliona.

Artem hasn't been on his best form this season, but he's never produced anything that was actually pants.
Sofajudge
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“BIB - over the years, most of them.

When you consider that a lot - most - of the pros had never danced Charleston, salsa, Argentine Tango, they all had to have lessons along with their celebs.

Some of the pros were mainly Latin dancers and had to have assistance with the ballroom; Brendan for example has gone from being basically just a Latin dancer when the show began, to one of the best ballroom dancers on the show now. He didn't do that without taking instruction.

Likewise the ballroom dancers have help with the Latin. Unfortunately, that is something Anton has never done which is why, in 10 years, 11 series, his Latin is as bad as ever.

I think it is a shame that some of the "background" coaches don't get some mention occasionally!”

Thanks for the information Kaycee. I hope they keep getting this tuition so the whole show doesn't dissolve into show dance sludge.

Brendan is obviously an apt pupil.
Kat_12
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“Jesus Christ, which ones were they?



Natalie wouldn't have won whoever she was with. I would imagine it was always a matter of fine-grading between 2nd and 4th. Pasha would have been adorable when she fainted though.”

I don't know. I can sort of imagine Pasha secretly not giving a shit, especially given how utterly detached he was by about week three this year.

Although, less wafting if he'd been paired with Natalie. That would've been good.

Originally Posted by cmazza:
“I usually love Artem's choreography but this year I think he got carried away with how goo Natalie is and gave more showy choreography. Other low points include Kevin and Susannah's AT.”

Given that Kevin looked borderline suicidal for most of that evening, I strongly suspect he had very little say in that dance.

Originally Posted by *Topaz*:
“I'm sorry but Artem is not stopping Natalie from winning - he could have choreographed all traditional routines for her, but she would still have had to face the social media/tabloid inflamed controversy over the prior dance training in her youth.

I do like Artem but I wouldn't say I'm a massive fan of his - I've been hot and cold towards him over the years but this year I've basically warmed to him again. I think he's got some unfair flack on here over his choreography - I think he's done some lovely routines with Natalie and I do think they've connected well and have great chemistry on the dance floor.”

Perhaps not, but I think they could have won over a few more viewers. Natalie clearly has ability, but she's not really getting to show it off properly.

Originally Posted by Christa:
“Oh Kevin, hands down, no question. In fact he gets a prize for being one of the worst choreographers ever on Strictly, including Aliona.

Artem hasn't been on his best form this season, but he's never produced anything that was actually pants.”

I really don't see the problem with Kevin's choreography at all. Except perhaps the Quickstep, which was too complex for Susanna. I agree with the person who said he occasionally out dances Susanna, which detracts from her, but I don't think that's deliberate, and doesn't relate to his choreo.

I also happen to think Aliona is an excellent choreographer. She's far more creative than Artem's ever been, and all her ballroom dances don't look exactly the same. Her Latin's very good, too.

FGS, Artem even managed to make Natalie's Paso look like all their ballroom dances!

Novelty factor worked in his favour in Kara's year, and he did some good work with Holly (Black Swan, the Paso and the Foxtrot in particular), but this year he seems to have lost the plot. Either that or he's already run out of ideas.

You are right about him never producing anything actually terrible. Bit dull/repetitive, but actively bad, no.
*Topaz*
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Kat_12:
“
I also happen to think Aliona is an excellent choreographer. She's far more creative than Artem's ever been, and all her ballroom dances don't look exactly the same. Her Latin's very good, too.

FGS, Artem even managed to make Natalie's Paso look like all their ballroom dances!

Novelty factor worked in his favour in Kara's year, and he did some good work with Holly (Black Swan, the Paso and the Foxtrot in particular), but this year he seems to have lost the plot. Either that or he's already run out of ideas.

You are right about him never producing anything actually terrible. Bit dull/repetitive, but actively bad, no.”

See to me Aliona is a similar type of choregrapher to Artem - both of them favour modern 'creative' choreography over the traditional and I remember when she was partnered with Matt and Harry, she got a lot of flak on here for her style of choreogaphy. I generally like them both as choreographers but I can't really agree that Aliona is a superior more creative choreographer than Artem.
tortoiseperson
18-12-2013
I think Artem is constrained more than we know by Natalie's back problem. He's no fool and she doesn't lack talent, musicality, memory for steps; they seem to have a great working relationship.

I am somewhat holding my breath that she can get through the final without damaging herself further. Winning is less important than preserving her health.
Monaogg
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Christa:
“Oh Kevin, hands down, no question. In fact he gets a prize for being one of the worst choreographers ever on Strictly, including Aliona.

Artem hasn't been on his best form this season, but he's never produced anything that was actually pants.”


Yup. Glad I am not alone in thinking Kevin needs to calm down a bit. All too hyper like a child overdosing on e-numbers.
Kat_12
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by *Topaz*:
“See to me Aliona is a similar type of choregrapher to Artem - both of them favour modern 'creative' choreography over the traditional and I remember when she was partnered with Matt and Harry, she got a lot of flak on here for her style of choreogaphy. I generally like them both as choreographers but I can't really agree that Aliona is a superior more creative choreographer than Artem.”

Perhaps I phrased that badly. I do agree that have a similar "style", as it were, but I think Aliona translates it better to the needs of Strictly, if you see what I mean.

To me, most of Artem's ballroom routines look exactly the same, whether they are nominally a Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot, American Smooth or whatever, while Aliona's are all individual and easily identifiable as the particular dance, despite the more unusual bits she might throw in. For example, to my mind Artem's ASs with Kara and Natalie are VERY similar (and Holly's to an extent, although the Black Swan theme gave that a nice twist), while Aliona's with Matt (NOOOOO YAAAAWK! ) and Harry were very different.

I think Aliona blends the modern and the traditional very well, while Artem leans far too heavily to the contemporary side.

That's my take on it, anyway. Artem can be good, I just think he's let himself down this year, because I think Natalie could have done just about anything he asked of her (accounting for her dodgy back) and he's given her just a lot of arty wafting.
fatskia
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Kat_12:
“Perhaps I phrased that badly. I do agree that have a similar "style", as it were, but I think Aliona translates it better to the needs of Strictly, if you see what I mean.

To me, most of Artem's ballroom routines look exactly the same, whether they are nominally a Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot, American Smooth or whatever, while Aliona's are all individual and easily identifiable as the particular dance, despite the more unusual bits she might throw in. For example, to my mind Artem's ASs with Kara and Natalie are VERY similar (and Holly's to an extent, although the Black Swan theme gave that a nice twist), while Aliona's with Matt (NOOOOO YAAAAWK! ) and Harry were very different.

I think Aliona blends the modern and the traditional very well, while Artem leans far too heavily to the contemporary side.

That's my take on it, anyway. Artem can be good, I just think he's let himself down this year, because I think Natalie could have done just about anything he asked of her (accounting for her dodgy back) and he's given her just a lot of arty wafting.”


I agree with you about Aliona.

I admire her choreography more than anyone else on the show.
Amethyzt
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“Yup. Glad I am not alone in thinking Kevin needs to calm down a bit. All too hyper like a child overdosing on e-numbers.”

Yep, totally agree
dancingbearbear
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“Yup. Glad I am not alone in thinking Kevin needs to calm down a bit. All too hyper like a child overdosing on e-numbers.”

I hadn't really thought about this till now, but it's a good point. His choreography seems to have been a bit more than Susanna can handle, hence the frequent judges' comments about her 'messiness' in finishing her moves and her being unable to keep up in the quickstep.
bornfree
18-12-2013
Agree, Pasha really let Rachel down IMO.
Lesley_Rigg
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“Yes. Duffers aren't really a clearly defined category.

A total duffer can hardly walk, cant keep time with the music, cant remember routines, has difficulty with left and right, no fitness, no balance, no co-ordination.
Basically me after a good night out. Even Dave doesn't qualify as a total duffer.

Rachel did do a good Waltz right at the start. That tends to indicate that she wasn't a hopeless case. She hadn't danced before and that is a big factor. She was also working 2 jobs in different cities. She probably needed 8 hours a day 7 days a week with a 6 week lead in to Strictly and she could probably have danced reasonably well and not looked too out of place amongst the girls.

Some of the music choices Pasha and Rachel got were dire. A Paso to Maneater??? The only complaint I really had about the choreography for Rachel was that it was too fast.”

A duffer is Gary Rhodes, and nothing anyone would or could have done with him would have changed it. I don't think he had any rhythm and he had the temerity not to take it seriously enough. Double duffer!
*Topaz*
18-12-2013
Originally Posted by Kat_12:
“Perhaps I phrased that badly. I do agree that have a similar "style", as it were, but I think Aliona translates it better to the needs of Strictly, if you see what I mean.

To me, most of Artem's ballroom routines look exactly the same, whether they are nominally a Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot, American Smooth or whatever, while Aliona's are all individual and easily identifiable as the particular dance, despite the more unusual bits she might throw in. For example, to my mind Artem's ASs with Kara and Natalie are VERY similar (and Holly's to an extent, although the Black Swan theme gave that a nice twist), while Aliona's with Matt (NOOOOO YAAAAWK! ) and Harry were very different.

I think Aliona blends the modern and the traditional very well, while Artem leans far too heavily to the contemporary side.

That's my take on it, anyway. Artem can be good, I just think he's let himself down this year, because I think Natalie could have done just about anything he asked of her (accounting for her dodgy back) and he's given her just a lot of arty wafting.”

Ok thanks for the elaboration. I'll take a look at Artem's ASs on youtube again, but I think he has done some distinct ballroom dances - I think his tangos for all 3 of his celebs you mentioned were quite different in theme/mood.

I think both Aliona and Artem have their strengths and weaknesses - the producers probably encourage them to break the rules and be the controversial/creative ones.

As for 'wafting' - well I think Aliona could be charged with that too I remember quite a few of Harry's ballroom dances in the start of his series contained 'wafting' out of hold type motions - he may have been a begninner and she did increase the content in his ballroom choreo towards the end of that series but still he was a good student.....
Dis_A_aster
18-12-2013
Clear winner Robin
Remember the table routine that sealed Deborah's exit
<<
<
3 of 6
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map