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Microsoft ending support for Windows XP and Windows Vista


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Old 19-12-2013, 19:19
Grouty
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Found this article about XP getting slower:-



No you are not imagining it

Those still running Windows XP are starting to notice that the software is actually slowing down. This defies a rule which says that software, running on machines that work, should keep running at the same speed that it did when it was born.

According to Ars Technica the old operating system is working considerably worse than when it was released in 2001. It is especially slow if you are still using Internet Explorer 6 or 7. The culprit is the svchost.exe, which is chewing up the entire processor. Sometimes it can take an hour for a machine to return to normal.

Redmond thinks that the problem is Windows Update. Machines using Windows Update retrieve patch information from Microsoft's servers. That patch information contains information about each patch: what software it applies to and what knowledge base article it relates to, and, critically, what historic patch or patches the current patch supersedes. Since Windows patches are cumulative a fresh install of Windows XP, does not need to install all of the dozens of Internet Explorer 6 patches sequentially; you can generally just install the latest patch, and it will include all the historic fixes because it supersedes the historic patches that introduced those fixes.

But the Windows Update client components used an algorithm with exponential scaling when processing these lists. So while a new machine, that processing is almost instantaneous. On an elderly machine it is very slow.

Microsoft thought that it had this problem fixed in November when it culled the supersedence lists. It tried again in December but that didn't seem to help either. It is probably better to scrap XP anyway.
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33...getting-slower
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Old 19-12-2013, 19:27
Mr Dos
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That hardware might just run Windows 8.1. You can get an 8.1 disk from Aria etc for about 70 quid but the pc will run slow and you will be disappointed. xxtimbo - do yourself a favour and get an i3 or i5 with 4 or 8GB ram. You will be amazed at the difference in performance compared to the XP.
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Old 19-12-2013, 19:29
gds1972
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Found this article about XP getting slower:-
Silly question then once XP support finishes would disabling windows update then speed the machine back up then?
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:34
NewWorldMan
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Not sure if you can now use anything past IE8 on XP? But I find that IE8 has great difficulty loading all sorts of pages/adverts that IE9+ or Firefox can cope with.
IE 8 is as high as you can go on XP. As a web developer I can tell you that IE < 9 is a real pain in the butt. We waste hours and hours trying to provide fixes for versions 8 and lower. Pity MS didn't make IE 9 the last version for XP, as it's mostly problem-free.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:40
NewWorldMan
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Microsoft have given plenty of notice over many years that come April 2014 support for XP will end. Users and admins have been given ample notice and if they choose to ignore it they must accept responsibly for whatever may happen.

Dave
The deadline has already been extended by 2 1/2 years. 10 Years is their standard product life cycle. With previous OSes the 10-year life has not been a problem as there were very few users left after the 10 years. But XP has just been too successful. Microsoft had to backtrack a year or so ago when they dropped targeting of XP for C++ developers.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:47
hyperstarsponge
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The first thing I do to a XP laptop nowadays is to install Windows 7 or 8 if it supports it, Either that or the computer gets thrown to dump.
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Old 20-12-2013, 00:50
Fried Kickin
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Microsoft have given plenty of notice over many years that come April 2014 support for XP will end. Users and admins have been given ample notice and if they choose to ignore it they must accept responsibly for whatever may happen.

Dave
In an ideal world everyone would be able to afford a new PC for every OS that comes out.
As of yet we don't live in that world.
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Old 20-12-2013, 08:17
The Rat
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In an ideal world everyone would be able to afford a new PC for every OS that comes out.
As of yet we don't live in that world.
Sounds a tad wasteful! I would say a cost-effective simple and suitable in-place OS upgrade route would be more desirable. The subjectivity of some of that criteria means, for some, that already exists.

Either way my general point is MS have been more than accommodating to XP users and admins, and it is the users/admins who should take responsibility for their own systems.

Dave
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Old 20-12-2013, 09:05
Smiley433
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I'm still using XP as I don't think my old P4 would run Windows 8. Even if it could, I'd then have to go out and buy a new printer and scanner as the ones I have are unlikely to still be supported by Windows 8, and I just see that as wasteful.
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Old 20-12-2013, 09:36
JamesE
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Silly question then once XP support finishes would disabling windows update then speed the machine back up then?
One would presume so but it might not be necessary. If there are no updates to look for there should be no cpu hogging by svchost. There's nothing wrong at the moment except on the 10/11th of the month. Before I learned to be patient I turned off auto updates and the problem went away.
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Old 20-12-2013, 10:41
zx50
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One would presume so but it might not be necessary. If there are no updates to look for there should be no cpu hogging by svchost. There's nothing wrong at the moment except on the 10/11th of the month. Before I learned to be patient I turned off auto updates and the problem went away.
I never have Windows Update enabled. I prefer to look for the updates when I feel like it.
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Old 20-12-2013, 14:33
JamesE
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I never have Windows Update enabled. I prefer to look for the updates when I feel like it.
Yes, but the trouble is that if you go through the normal method of letting Seattle trawl through your updates to find what you need then the svchost problem rears its ugly head again. Only by knowing yourself what you need and downloading them directly can you get round it.
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:17
zx50
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Yes, but the trouble is that if you go through the normal method of letting Seattle trawl through your updates to find what you need then the svchost problem rears its ugly head again. Only by knowing yourself what you need and downloading them directly can you get round it.
Unfortunately I don't know which updates I need. I have to let the Windows Update find that out.
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Old 20-12-2013, 18:08
mossy2103
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Unfortunately I don't know which updates I need. I have to let the Windows Update find that out.
This will give you some background:

Microsoft released a new "Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer" today (10th December 2013) - MS13-097: KB2898785 - but have not yet fixed the XP update bug. So we are back to the same problem again - a stuck Automatic Updates service running the SVCHOST process at full CPU load (100% or 50% or 25% depending on how many CPU cores you have)

Microsoft stated last month that the Internet Explorer updates are treated differently for all the other updates - which is causing the XP Update engine to run so slowly as to appear frozen. If the Update service detects you do not have the latest IE update that is currently available it starts to search the whole IE updates tree to see what you need - instead of just offering the current cumulative update for your system. But if you manually install the update yourself the Update service finds Internet Explorer is fully updated and doesn't search for any IE updates. But until MS fix the issue it will keep happening each time a new update is released.

MS said they intended to prune the IE updates database so that only the key Cumulative updates were offered when a search was initiated - this didn't happen in time for the November updated as intended and obviously has not happened or worked in time for the December update either!
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showp...6&postcount=50

So you just need to locate the appropriate Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer and apply it manually. WU will then run and pick up the rest with no problem.

And from another angle:

We have been reporting for the past few months on a long-standing bug in Windows XP that causes SVCHOST to push the CPU of a PC up to 100 percent usage. Microsoft was supposed to finally fix this issue with a patch that was released in November, but the update failed in this goal.

With official support for Windows XP due to end in less than four months, there's very little time for Microsoft to fix this problem for the many users of the 12-year old operating system. A few days ago, Doug Neal, the senior program manager for Windows and Microsoft Update, sent out a message to the subscribers of the PatchManagement listserv. He stated that Microsoft has found what was causing SVCHOST to increase a PC's CPU usage:

From the extended Windows Update logs, we saw the issue stemmed from inefficiencies in the Windows Update Agent processing long lists of superseded updates. And the problem was exponential in that each additional superseded item took twice as long as the previous item to evaluate. With lists as long as 40+ superseded items, the processing cost on SVCHOST via the Windows Update Agent had an exceptional impact on client PCs.

Neal said that Microsoft tried to get rid of a large number of superseded updates in the IE6 and IE7 lists in order to fix the SVCHOST issue. Unfortunately, the updates to Windows XP released in November, and also earlier in December, failed to squash this bug. He stated, "We're working diligently to release changes to the supersedence logic that will comprehensively solve this problem. It's a top priority. And the right (and smartest) people are on it."

He added " ... we're working through the holiday to provide the right fix as soon as possible. As you can imagine, we don't have an ETA. And we want to make sure the next fix is the last and comprehensively solves this for our customers."
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...gh-the-holiday
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Old 20-12-2013, 18:25
zx50
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I won't have any trouble if it's only affecting XP systems.
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Old 20-12-2013, 18:57
2000motels
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Anyone using XP on old machines should install a Linux distro when XP expires in April.
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Old 20-12-2013, 19:39
allafix
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Anyone using XP on old machines should install a Linux distro when XP expires in April.
Like it would be so easy to port everything to Linux. If you have a lot of Windows based software the obvious upgrade path is Win 7, but even that requires a full software reinstall which is not a pleasant prospect.

Anyway, XP does not expire in April. MS support of XP stops which is an entirely different thing. XP will continue to run quite happily. Personally I think the day MS stops chucking flawed updates for its flawed software at me will be a day for celebration.

I've never understood the compulsion some people feel to adopt the latest OS version. If it ain't broke don't fix it. XP was a stunningly successful OS, especially compared to its successor. I'll keep running XP until incompatibility with software I want to run becomes a problem. Then I'll update to Windows 7. Forget about 8.

I stopped using IE8 not because the updates stopped but because I got fed up getting warning messages from websites telling me they had detected I was running IE6 and it was not compatible with the web page. Tried Chrome for a while until Google screwed around with the UI. Now happy using Firefox.
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Old 20-12-2013, 20:30
zx50
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Like it would be so easy to port everything to Linux. If you have a lot of Windows based software the obvious upgrade path is Win 7, but even that requires a full software reinstall which is not a pleasant prospect.

Anyway, XP does not expire in April. MS support of XP stops which is an entirely different thing. XP will continue to run quite happily. Personally I think the day MS stops chucking flawed updates for its flawed software at me will be a day for celebration.

I've never understood the compulsion some people feel to adopt the latest OS version. If it ain't broke don't fix it. XP was a stunningly successful OS, especially compared to its successor. I'll keep running XP until incompatibility with software I want to run becomes a problem. Then I'll update to Windows 7. Forget about 8.

I stopped using IE8 not because the updates stopped but because I got fed up getting warning messages from websites telling me they had detected I was running IE6 and it was not compatible with the web page. Tried Chrome for a while until Google screwed around with the UI. Now happy using Firefox.
Your system will be very insecure when surfing the internet then, especially if Microsoft stop making updates for XP systems.
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Old 20-12-2013, 20:42
xxtimbo
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The comp shop told me that the windows disc
will be around £75
that I could delete the current software and install
the latest operating system.


I think around March 2014 Ill buy a 2 terabyte HD
move all my documents over then wipe my comp
and try to install the latest op system.
If things go wrong Ill take the comp into the shop.


Its gonna be one hell of a drag though having to find and re download all the lovely apps Ive got at present
white rabbit photoshop etc.

M.Soft could have continued with XP .. improving and
refining it each year ... but insane greed took over and they decided to bring out a totally new op system and make even more hoops for everyone to jump through.
(Maybe Linux is the answer ?)
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Old 20-12-2013, 20:54
zx50
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The comp shop told me that the windows disc
will be around £75
that I could delete the current software and install
the latest operating system.


I think around March 2014 Ill buy a 2 terabyte HD
move all my documents over then wipe my comp
and try to install the latest op system.
If things go wrong Ill take the comp into the shop.


Its gonna be one hell of a drag though having to find and re download all the lovely apps Ive got at present
white rabbit photoshop etc.

M.Soft could have continued with XP .. improving and
refining it each year ... but insane greed took over and they decided to bring out a totally new op system and make even more hoops for everyone to jump through.
(Maybe Linux is the answer ?)
You do realise that Microsoft are running a business, don't you?
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Old 20-12-2013, 21:51
The Rat
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Anyway, XP does not expire in April. MS support of XP stops which is an entirely different thing. XP will continue to run quite happily. Personally I think the day MS stops chucking flawed updates for its flawed software at me will be a day for celebration.
It will continue to run, but how "happily" is open to debate. Once your computing security becomes compromised - and running a widely-used unsupported networked OS, it will - then I'm sure your happiness with XP my become more strained and your celebrations may very well be short-lived.

Dave
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Old 21-12-2013, 00:14
2000motels
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Like it would be so easy to port everything to Linux. If you have a lot of Windows based software the obvious upgrade path is Win 7, but even that requires a full software reinstall which is not a pleasant prospect.

Anyway, XP does not expire in April. MS support of XP stops which is an entirely different thing. XP will continue to run quite happily. Personally I think the day MS stops chucking flawed updates for its flawed software at me will be a day for celebration.

I've never understood the compulsion some people feel to adopt the latest OS version. If it ain't broke don't fix it. XP was a stunningly successful OS, especially compared to its successor. I'll keep running XP until incompatibility with software I want to run becomes a problem. Then I'll update to Windows 7. Forget about 8.

I stopped using IE8 not because the updates stopped but because I got fed up getting warning messages from websites telling me they had detected I was running IE6 and it was not compatible with the web page. Tried Chrome for a while until Google screwed around with the UI. Now happy using Firefox.
If you browse the internet then XP will expire in April because only a fool would use a unsupported O/S, of course if you don't use the internet after April well OK. Linux distros are to me in a different league to Windows and when you get used to using them their a piece of cake.
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Old 21-12-2013, 09:06
Koll
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Anyone using XP on old machines should install a Linux distro when XP expires in April.
Or just disable internet and use it as a PC to play all your old games on without compatibility problems.
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Old 21-12-2013, 10:54
zx50
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Or just disable internet and use it as a PC to play all your old games on without compatibility problems.
They'd have to resort to using eBay to get a good graphics card if they used XP as a gaming machine. They'd be missing out on all the improved graphics on games that are made for Vista and above though. There'll be more realistic things added in PC games these days when compared to XP games.
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Old 21-12-2013, 12:24
alanwarwic
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If you browse the internet then XP will expire in April because only a fool would use a unsupported O/S....Linux distros are to me in a different league to Windows and when you get used to using them their a piece of cake.
It is mainly Windows with the bloat and zillions of holes. An old version of Linux will be far safer but obviously still not safe.

I'm expecting April time + will will see a mass leakage of XP specific security holes. I'm sure there will be plenty of easy profit to be made come then, profits that in 2014 won't put at risk existing work contracts etc etc
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