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How are women represented in pop/dance music videos?


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Old 19-12-2013, 17:30
BB_Robot
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I'm asking this for a bit of a help and primary research for Media coursework that I'm currently doing - so if you could help out with your opinions, I'd really appreciate it!

I was looking at videos like We Found Love (that pop/dance bracket) where Rihanna, in much of it is represented in quite a bad way due to the use of drugs and what not. Often though, I think they're quite sexualised - try and target the male audience who just want women with a nice body on their screens.

But, yeah, if you could give me your opinions on the topic question, it would help me a lot to gain different views.
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Old 19-12-2013, 17:35
Tim_A
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Often though, I think they're quite sexualised - try and target the male audience who just want women with a nice body on their screens.
They do. But there are also plenty of instances of female artists etc. wanting men with nice bodies in their videos.
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Old 19-12-2013, 19:51
007Fusion
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Overly sexualised or liberated from our past conservatism ?

I think the male gaze does exist but more importantly a female one has developed, where females believe its within their best interest to portray women as the best they can be - I'm not sure whether this is for independence or empowerment..

As for how their represented, I believe their still seen as sexual objects, mostly at the whim of a man and the images are becoming more graphic.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:29
Tal'shiar
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Unless a female REALLY makes a go of avoiding it, they are almost always sexualised. I often giggle when the nation gets all out of shape about Jimmy Savile but Hit Me Baby One More Time by Britney Spears was a huge hit, and that video was paedorastic overdrive.

Showing sexy women is one thing, but now all it seems to be is trying to create a race of perfect little sex kitten females. If I was a young girl and I saw what the television was telling me, I think I might feel somewhat worthless, that I will never match up. Even men are reduced to sexual objects all the time, in fact the whole industry loves to sell sex appeal, which you would think is at odds with "music".

Long gone are the political, spiritual, about any god damn thing songs, and now its just an awesome factory shop that vomits out endless streams of sex, submission, sex, attractive, sexual, sex, debase yourself to your lowest desires and achieve fame and monetary rewards like no other.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:33
Kid Rachyy ♥
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I suggest you give this a watch - could be a good reference to cite

https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/tonigh...eotape-tonight
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:47
BB_Robot
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Ooh, thank you very much, Kid Rachy; watching that now and is very useful!
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:08
KittyKream
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I'm asking this for a bit of a help and primary research for Media coursework that I'm currently doing - so if you could help out with your opinions, I'd really appreciate it!

I was looking at videos like We Found Love (that pop/dance bracket) where Rihanna, in much of it is represented in quite a bad way due to the use of drugs and what not. Often though, I think they're quite sexualised - try and target the male audience who just want women with a nice body on their screens.

But, yeah, if you could give me your opinions on the topic question, it would help me a lot to gain different views.
Women's objectification has been made the norm and mainstream.
The video in the link by Robin Thicke demonstrates this particuarly well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyDUC1LUXSU

This video can be seen at anytime of day by children of any age. Impressionable children singing lewd lyrics like 'let me tear your a**' in two ' having no idea what it means.
Young girls think the sexual gyrating they see in music videos is normal and aspire to it and dance in a sexual nature in the school yard.

I actually think this is a big problem which is not being addressed at all.
But meh,what do I know
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:31
Residents Fan
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This might be just a pop/dance thing- the women in rock videos
don't seem to go in for Robin Thicke-style excessive
sexualization:

Haim. "The Wire". (Bit of sexualization of the
band members, but the men in the
video are kept in their place by the women: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TffpkE2GU4


Chvrches, "The Mother We Share". (Female singer performing
with her bandmates. No sexualization here):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mTRvJ9fugM
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:42
KittyKream
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This might be just a pop/dance thing- the women in rock videos
don't seem to go in for Robin Thicke-style excessive
sexualization:

Haim. "The Wire". (Bit of sexualization of the
band members, but the men in the
video are kept in their place by the women: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TffpkE2GU4


Chvrches, "The Mother We Share". (Female singer performing
with her bandmates)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mTRvJ9fugM
HAIM are very much different to the norm and nor are they as succesful as their first single could have been. Women who don't conform to the commercial image don't tend to do very well in the charts. Adele is the only exception to the rule I can think of.

Eric Prydz 'Call on Me' was a fairly major landmark in that it allowed VERY sexual depictions of women in mainstream pop. This video was shown all day but trust me,its explicit you can't watch it with your mum


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCovxGt2cmo

Following that video dance music tended to focus very much on the sexualisation of women focusing on them lap dancing etc. That was the standard norm for dance videos,portraying women sexually.
That became their role.
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Old 19-12-2013, 23:27
mgvsmith
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In the early days of MTV, women were often used to adore 80s rock videos like this.....

Motley Crue - Girls, Girls, Girls

Aerosmith - Love in an Elevator

Duran Duran - Girls on Film

Rap/Hip Hop videos of the 90s seem quite sexist too...

Wreckx-N-Effect - Rump Shaker or they might be considered celebratory!

Sir Mix A Lot - Baby Got Back

The male gaze is about men observing women, whilst women observe themselves.
The art critic John Berger covered this well in his book 'Ways of seeing' because the it's something that has existed in the visual arts for a very long time. This idea is well represented in Velazquez's 'Venus at her Mirror'. While the viewer gazes at Venus, she looks at herself in the mirror.

I don't think the Rihanna video of 'We Found Love' is sexist. That song is about reckless escape and the video suits the song.
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Old 20-12-2013, 01:19
rfonzo
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i would say mainly as people of sexual desire. You notice with mainstream artists the focus of the camera is on certain body parts. People say this sells more music.
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Old 20-12-2013, 09:59
mushymanrob
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soft porn / soft prostitution ... its sad that when punk empowered women, railed against the sexism of the 70's, commerce has finaly won out. sex sells, so show more and youll sell more.

we need another mary whitehouse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Whitehouse

why is anybody surprised at the high rate of underage sex/pregnancies/std's when music videos are portraying women as sex objects and promoting sex?

and the scarey thing is that in kids playgrounds, primary age kids, they arent playing traditional playground games anymore, but are practicing dance routines, many of which have (innocent) sexual moves.
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Old 20-12-2013, 10:33
_elly001
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Unless a female REALLY makes a go of avoiding it, they are almost always sexualised. I often giggle when the nation gets all out of shape about Jimmy Savile but Hit Me Baby One More Time by Britney Spears was a huge hit, and that video was paedorastic overdrive.

Showing sexy women is one thing, but now all it seems to be is trying to create a race of perfect little sex kitten females. If I was a young girl and I saw what the television was telling me, I think I might feel somewhat worthless, that I will never match up. Even men are reduced to sexual objects all the time, in fact the whole industry loves to sell sex appeal, which you would think is at odds with "music".

Long gone are the political, spiritual, about any god damn thing songs, and now its just an awesome factory shop that vomits out endless streams of sex, submission, sex, attractive, sexual, sex, debase yourself to your lowest desires and achieve fame and monetary rewards like no other.
This is a very good post, particularly the part about young girls feeling worthless. It's a very concerning trend. Although I do somewhat disagree about men being reduced to sexual objects. In some cases they are, certainly, but for the most part men appear fully clothed in videos, often wearing sunglasses, without any sort of vulnerability about them. What makes the female depiction so worrying is how exposed they always are.
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Old 20-12-2013, 11:58
KittyKream
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This is a very good post, particularly the part about young girls feeling worthless. It's a very concerning trend. Although I do somewhat disagree about men being reduced to sexual objects. In some cases they are, certainly, but for the most part men appear fully clothed in videos, often wearing sunglasses, without any sort of vulnerability about them. What makes the female depiction so worrying is how exposed they always are.
Agreed,its the effect on children in particular young girls that is the only thing that worries me really.They will believe they have to obtain a perfect image as that is the 'norm'

Since when did music videos have to be all about sex

Since when did music have to be sung by only attractive lithe singers under 35 at most (if the artist is female,obviously)Female singers are under 25 mostly but Britney Spears proved she was still 'credible' by singing 'work b**ch' in her new video and whipping women in a sexual manner,aged 32 and a mother...

Oh how Madonna was mocked when she was scantily clad in her 'Hung Up' video because she was 'past it'!You cannot be older and sing for some reason

They are before my time but Mama Cass and Janis Joplin were not pin ups were they and no body required them to be. They were singers not models.

Its so unhealthy and imo a refection of society that sneers at older women and demands young girls be 'perfect'and normailses overt sexual behaviour.

Again,whats happened to the 'music'
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:12
mushymanrob
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Agreed,its the effect on children in particular young girls that is the only thing that worries me really.They will believe they have to obtain a perfect image as that is the 'norm'

Since when did music videos have to be all about sex

Since when did music have to be sung by only attractive lithe singers under 35 at most (if the artist is female,obviously)Female singers are under 25 mostly but Britney Spears proved she was still 'credible' by singing 'work b**ch' in her new video and whipping women in a sexual manner,aged 32 and a mother...

Oh how Madonna was mocked when she was scantily clad in her 'Hung Up' video because she was 'past it'!You cannot be older and sing for some reason

They are before my time but Mama Cass and Janis Joplin were not pin ups were they and no body required them to be. They were singers not models.

Its so unhealthy and imo a refection of society that sneers at older women and demands young girls be 'perfect'and normailses overt sexual behaviour.

Again,whats happened to the 'music'
bib 1

well pop music has been about youth, and youth rebellion since the mid 50's, where successive generations of young people have created their own identity in music and fashion.... and that worked well until business and cheap manufactured music became strong in the late 80's/early 90's. so from a pop pov, its logical and normal for the youth of the day to be the ones leading fashion.

bib 2

until business ran the industry (before c1990 business used to facilitate the ideas the youth had, after 1990 business became much more involved and lead the way, hence boybands, manufactured acts etc) music was about the music, especially in the 60's when artists were wanting to create music for musics sake, hence class acts like cass elliot and joplin were popular.

i blame business, particually stock aitken and waterman, for popularising the manufactured act shamelessly. how tf they sold it to the masses is quite shocking..

but the logical conclusion of music being uber-commercial is that over a period of time theyll sink to the lowest level they can... anything to sell records, and it wont be long before nudity and even sex itself will be commonplace.

ive always said that the % of flesh on show has a relationship to how por the quality of the act/track is. i see no reason to change that pov.
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:21
KittyKream
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bib 1

well pop music has been about youth, and youth rebellion since the mid 50's, where successive generations of young people have created their own identity in music and fashion.... and that worked well until business and cheap manufactured music became strong in the late 80's/early 90's. so from a pop pov, its logical and normal for the youth of the day to be the ones leading fashion.

bib 2

until business ran the industry (before c1990 business used to facilitate the ideas the youth had, after 1990 business became much more involved and lead the way, hence boybands, manufactured acts etc) music was about the music, especially in the 60's when artists were wanting to create music for musics sake, hence class acts like cass elliot and joplin were popular.

i blame business, particually stock aitken and waterman, for popularising the manufactured act shamelessly. how tf they sold it to the masses is quite shocking..

but the logical conclusion of music being uber-commercial is that over a period of time theyll sink to the lowest level they can... anything to sell records, and it wont be long before nudity and even sex itself will be commonplace.

ive always said that the % of flesh on show has a relationship to how por the quality of the act/track is. i see no reason to change that pov.
You say pop music has always been about youth. Well not so. These days its about female youth,sure.
The males can be any age,

Pharell and T.I who feature in Robin Thicke's(who is 37 himself and had the best selling single of the year) video are in their forties. Pharell in particular is a highly credible artist who releases music regularly. It is not required that he be 'young'

Commercial music has always been 'ageist',that makes sense and was true when I was young but another trend is emerging that the ageism is now only targeted at women only.

Women have to be young and beautiful to sing and feature in videos.
Men have to be neither.

I agree with everything else you say.
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:41
mushymanrob
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You say pop music has always been about youth. Well not so. These days its about female youth,sure.
The males can be any age,

Pharell and T.I who feature in Robin Thicke's(who is 37 himself and had the best selling single of the year) video are in their forties. Pharell in particular is a highly credible artist who releases music regularly. It is not required that he be 'young'

Commercial music has always been 'ageist',that makes sense and was true when I was young but another trend is emerging that the ageism is now only targeted at women only.

Women have to be young and beautiful to sing and feature in videos.
Men have to be neither.

I agree with everything else you say.
... upto c 1990 when the rot set in... all the great movements of the past were youth lead, youth inspired, its when businesses influence increased that new ideas have been stifled out of mainstream pop. its only recently as older pop stars have refused to retire (and why should they?) that we have had people over 35 charting. and yes, there were older people charting in the past but their audience was an adult audience, not a young one.

the fact that thicke and co are doing it now with girls in his vid young enough to be his daughter is.... well...
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:10
KittyKream
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... upto c 1990 when the rot set in... all the great movements of the past were youth lead, youth inspired, its when businesses influence increased that new ideas have been stifled out of mainstream pop. its only recently as older pop stars have refused to retire (and why should they?) that we have had people over 35 charting. and yes, there were older people charting in the past but their audience was an adult audience, not a young one.

the fact that thicke and co are doing it now with girls in his vid young enough to be his daughter is.... well...
I think the true purpose of that video was just to ensure Thicke got alot of media attention. He is apparently famous in the States but no one here really knows him. He wanted to rectify that.

Apparently Pharrell said they wanted to write the most 'degrading lyrics they could',Thicke adding it was 'fun' to degrade women because they were three married older guys and therefore it would be ironic for them to do so

Make of that what you will,I still don't get it

It was apparently a female directors idea to film a topless version of the video.Personally I find the one where the ladies are dressed in see through nappy type garments,having smoke blown in their faces and humping goats attention seeking enough
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:27
Semierotic
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soft porn / soft prostitution ... its sad that when punk empowered women, railed against the sexism of the 70's, commerce has finaly won out. sex sells, so show more and youll sell more.

we need another mary whitehouse
I agreed with you up until this part. She was abhorrent.
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:32
mushymanrob
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I agreed with you up until this part. She was abhorrent.
true... but she did have a point. things are far far worse now then in her time. im not against porn as such, but pop videos are way too 'sexy' for pop video
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:35
KittyKream
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true... but she did have a point. things are far far worse now then in her time. im not against porn as such, but pop videos are way too 'sexy' for pop video
I don't like what it signifies about the way society is going

That can be our happy thought for the day lol sorry
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Old 20-12-2013, 20:55
mgvsmith
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I have to agree with Mushymanrob on much of what he says. Pop music has generally been youth culture led in the past and that has been a good thing. The rot set in with SAW commercialisation in the early 90s and there hasn't been much let up since.

The Who sang 'I hope I die before I get old' in 1965 yet in old age they are still going. I'm not sure old rock stars have worked out the best way of growing old gracefully?

Mama Cass died at 32 and Janis at 27, so they didn't have to deal with the old age thing. Of course, they both came from an era of sexual liberation not repression. And I don't think we want to go back to a time before that age of liberation.

I agree that it is harder for older women but It's not a universal truth either. My own favourite, Tina Turner, was still performing at retirement age and still looked the part and Stevie Nicks is 65 and still performs to acclaim. Both of those women had quite 'liberated' pasts which didn't stop them growing old with a little grace. Although Tina did receive some flack at times for her dance routines in the early days.

My own feeling is that this current sexualisation of pop videos is not unrelated to the emergence of the 'sex tape' and celebrity culture. Is it not the way Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian came to fame? And is it not the media fascination with vacuous 'celebrities' such as the Kardashians that has influenced pop music culture.
The popularity of TOWIE and MiC doesn't help either.
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Old 20-12-2013, 21:03
Electra
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I have to agree with Mushymanrob on much of what he says. Pop music has generally been youth culture led in the past and that has been a good thing. The rot set in with SAW commercialisation in the early 90s and there hasn't been much let up since.

The Who sang 'I hope I die before I get old' in 1965 yet in old age they are still going. I'm not sure old rock stars have worked out the best way of growing old gracefully?

Mama Cass died at 32 and Janis at 27, so they didn't have to deal with the old age thing. Of course, they both came from an era of sexual liberation not repression. And I don't think we want to go back to a time before that age of liberation.

I agree that it is harder for older women but It's not a universal truth either. My own favourite, Tina Turner, was still performing at retirement age and still looked the part and Stevie Nicks is 65 and still performs to acclaim. Both of those women had quite 'liberated' pasts which didn't stop them growing old with a little grace. Although Tina did receive some flack at times for her dance routines in the early days.

My own feeling is that this current sexualisation of pop videos is not unrelated to the emergence of the 'sex tape' and celebrity culture. Is it not the way Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian came to fame? And is it not the media fascination with vacuous 'celebrities' such as the Kardashians that has influenced pop music culture.
The popularity of TOWIE and MiC doesn't help either.
Great post I think it's also because, for some unfathomable reason, Youtube hits now count towards US chart positions, so we now have soft porn videos in order to maximise chart performance
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Old 21-12-2013, 07:53
mushymanrob
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My own feeling is that this current sexualisation of pop videos is not unrelated to the emergence of the 'sex tape' and celebrity culture. Is it not the way Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian came to fame? And is it not the media fascination with vacuous 'celebrities' such as the Kardashians that has influenced pop music culture.
The popularity of TOWIE and MiC doesn't help either.
sadly its all part of 'yoof culture' now, image over substance. im baffled why hilton/essex/kardashian/price etc are seen as heros or idols to be followed. 'in my day' (lol) our heros were people who acheived something be it lennon, lydon, dylan, bush, etc. the uber commercialisation of music has given us a blank generation of young people who largely dont care, they get their fix given to them by old men after money.

the x factor, ridiculous fashions (scouse brow, fake tans, too whitened teeth)are part of this rather clownlike culture too.
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Old 21-12-2013, 09:26
mrkite77
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Great post I think it's also because, for some unfathomable reason, Youtube hits now count towards US chart positions, so we now have soft porn videos in order to maximise chart performance
Nothing unfathomable about it. Youtube is the #1 source for music for american teens these days.

According to Nielsen's 2012 Music 360 report:
"more teens listen to music through YouTube than through any other source (64%) -- followed by radio (56%) and iTunes (53%) and CDs (50%)"

I've heard from at least one indie artist that he makes more money from his youtube channel than mp3 sales.
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