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Unpopular Opinions on Doctor Who
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Helbore
22-12-2013
Originally Posted by Glenn Reuben:
“Series 6 and 7 should not have been split in half.”

I don't think that's an unpopular opinion!
Grisonaut
22-12-2013
RTD's idea of an alien name, race, planet, or plot was to put an x, y, or z in there and think that made it sci-fi.
Joe_Zel
22-12-2013
Originally Posted by Grisonaut:
“RTD's idea of an alien name, race, planet, or plot was to put an x, y, or z in there and think that made it sci-fi.”

Such as?
Joe_Zel
22-12-2013
Captain Jack/John Barrowman was terrible and only there purely to be the token gay character.

Amy was underdeveloped and Karen Gillan a very mediocre to bad actress.
Grisonaut
22-12-2013
Originally Posted by Joe_Zel:
“Such as?”

Sycorax
Raxxicophlep-etc etc
Even (from Wizards v Aliens) Grazlax

All I'm saying is, RTD would place the planet Xarg in the Zophoyxx System and not blink an eye lid.
Grisonaut
22-12-2013
Originally Posted by Joe_Zel:
“Captain Jack/John Barrowman was terrible and only there purely to be the token gay character..”

In RTD's The Writer's Tale, he says that a colleague at ITV was 'the token straight'.

I found that pretty weird.
Satmanager
22-12-2013
Originally Posted by Helbore:
“Torchwood: Miracle Day isn't that bad and certainly not worse than most of season 1 and 2. It only gets a bad rap because its not as good as Children of Earth and the inexplicable USA-hatred.

Ianto Jones wasn't that great a character.

Partners in Crime is a dreadful episode and the "comedy" between the Doctor and Donna is horribly forced and unfunny.

Christopher Eccelston doesn't deserve to be skinned alive by the fans.

"A Christmas Carol," is the best Who xmas special by a country mile.”

I agreed with everything until the last. Snowman was a much better Xmas episode (could it be that I am a Jenna-Louise Coleman fan?).
Joe_Zel
22-12-2013
Originally Posted by Grisonaut:
“Sycorax
Raxxicophlep-etc etc
Even (from Wizards v Aliens) Grazlax

All I'm saying is, RTD would place the planet Xarg in the Zophoyxx System and not blink an eye lid.”

There were plenty others too, Ood, Judoon, err... I'm sure there's others.

Originally Posted by Grisonaut:
“In RTD's The Writer's Tale, he says that a colleague at ITV was 'the token straight'.

I found that pretty weird.”

I found quite a lot of that book pretty weird.

Whilst I appreciated the warts and all tales of writing scripts, it seemed his erection did a lot of the thinking about his cast members.
Tomi Adenuga
22-12-2013
Never understood why Blink is seen as one of the best episodes ever! It was great, really great. But the way people describe it makes it sound amazing.

I didn't love Vincent and the Doctor. It was alright but definitely not one of my fave episodes. Also, The Doctors Wife was good but not as good as a lot of you describe it.

Amy is my favourite companion EVER!

I love Clara.

I wasn't happy when they announced Peter Capaldi as the new Doctor.
The_Judge_
23-12-2013
Originally Posted by Tomi Adenuga:
“Never understood why Blink is seen as one of the best episodes ever! It was great, really great. But the way people describe it makes it sound amazing.

I didn't love Vincent and the Doctor. It was alright but definitely not one of my fave episodes. Also, The Doctors Wife was good but not as good as a lot of you describe it.

Amy is my favourite companion EVER!

I love Clara.

I wasn't happy when they announced Peter Capaldi as the new Doctor.”

Who were you hoping for out of curiosity, any of ther popular candidates or someone totally different ?
QuantumLeap
23-12-2013
I liked Colin Baker outfit.
CD93
23-12-2013
Clara is also a character, not just a plot device.

As this very detailed post by UrsulaL will now explain.

Spoiler
She really isn't hard to understand. The thing to remember is that her mystery, her seeming impossible nature, is merely a quirk of the Doctor's time-traveling lifestyle and our seeing her story from his perspective. He, and we, encounter the consequences of her decision to save him by stepping into his timeline before we meet her younger self, Modern Clara, who eventually made that choice.

It would be very interesting to find someone who hasn't seen her story, and show it to them from her perspective. Start with "The Bells of Saint John" but edit out all of the Doctor's stress about her being impossible and the woman twice dead. What is it like to get to know Clara without that distraction?

What you have is an educated young woman, finished with university, and either working as a teacher or on a break from work, who is staying with some friends who recently lost the mother of the family, and whose teenage children are going through the same loss she experienced as a teenager whose mother died. She's compassionate, but clearly an adult to their teenage nature. She's not trying to replace their mother. She does make a point of being an example of someone who has lost their mother, but has dealt with it, and an example of how you can remember your mother lovingly, and how the initial pain of early mourning will change.

Clara is not working as a nanny. She's helping friends, temporarily. They are already looking for a longer-term solution to their needs when we first meet her. She's relaxed, trusting them to not make demands on her indefinitely. The father is grateful, and looking for other help so that he isn't taking advantage of her generosity unreasonably.

Clara is motivated by kindness and friendship. Professionally, she's motivated to educate, nurture, and mentor. These things drive her interactions with the Doctor and her choices in their adventures.

Clara's strength lies in her people skills. She's not good with computers. She doesn't get along with the TARDIS. And when she does interact with the TARDIS, she does so by treating it as a person. Characterizing the Doctor's need for the TARDIS to like her as being like a boyfriend who needs his mother to like a girlfriend. But she isn't really comfortable with the idea of a person-like machine, also stepping back and characterizing the TARDIS as an "appliance." Less impressed, and more uncomfortable with the alien than other modern companions have been. The hacking skills she picks up when uploaded are put to use not merely hacking, but by understanding how the people working for her enemy will have used social media, and using that people-knowledge to find them.

Clara has an interest in travel. This is related to her fond memories of her mother, who shared the dream of travel with her through the "101 Places to See" book. But this is a fond memory and keepsake, something of a scrapbook of memories as well. Clara is not obsessed with this desire to travel. She'll postpone travels to care for friends in need. She'll take up the Doctor's offer to travel with him, eagerly. But she's not running away with him. When he frames his offer as "running away" she firmly declines, and suggests he comes back in the morning and ask again. And while the "101 Places to See" book represents her interest in travel, it doesn't define it. She's not looking to work her way through the book. She wants to see amazing things. And that's what she asks the Doctor for.

Clara is very much an adult. She's finished school, she has a job, she has a career and life she likes. She is at a stage in life that Amy and Rory were only beginning to reach when they left us. And she picks up their mature travel habits with the Doctor where they left off. In a way, this gives the Doctor a chance to continue to grow in his understanding of what a companion can be. Rory asked why the Doctor can't just phone ahead. Clara insists that he does phone ahead.

While we got a clear view of all of what a companion's life was with earlier modern companions, with Clara, her life is largely off-screen. What we see is her vacations and holidays.

Clara has a clearer sense of her own mortality than earlier modern companions. She's experienced death, up-close, through the death of her mother when she was a teenager, old enough to understand. Her first instinct, in danger, is to retreat to safety. She's not looking for adventure. But she will step up, and not walk away when someone is in need. As we see with the friends she's helping, with her reaching out to Merry as a scared child, with her responding to the disaster that was the GI disrupting the Doctor's timestream by sacrificing herself.

Clara isn't driven to rewrite history. Rather, when knowing history gives her a glimpse into a possible future, realizing that she must have stepped into the Doctor's timestream to be the women he remembers, it gives her the courage to carry through the act, writing history rather than rewriting it.

In a way, she reminds me of Liz Shaw, another woman who had a career, and who liked the Doctor but would not let the Doctor disrupt her life or hold her back. It is playing out differently because Clara's career doesn't put her in competition with the Doctor, and the Doctor isn't holding her back professionally. LIz was a trained scientist who wouldn't play second fiddle or function as merely an assistant, and Clara rejects the role of "assistant" as well. There is also a fair amount of Rory, particularly early Rory in her, with her refusal to be impressed, and her willingness to question the Doctor. But while Rory confronts the Doctor, Clara more simply says "no" to him when he's asking for more than she's willing to give, and she makes her "no" stick.

Clara is also interesting in that she's often made uncomfortable by the things she experiences. She initially sees the Doctor wanting to take her into a small box rather creepy. She's freaked out when the Doctor takes his snapshots of the life of Earth. The things that the Doctor shows his companions aren't always easy, and it is refreshing to have a companion who takes time to think about what she's experiencing, and who questions the new things she's experiencing rather than running ahead unthinkingly.
The_Judge_
23-12-2013
Originally Posted by CD93:
“Clara is also a character, not just a plot device.

As this very detailed post by UrsulaL will now explain.

Spoiler
She really isn't hard to understand. The thing to remember is that her mystery, her seeming impossible nature, is merely a quirk of the Doctor's time-traveling lifestyle and our seeing her story from his perspective. He, and we, encounter the consequences of her decision to save him by stepping into his timeline before we meet her younger self, Modern Clara, who eventually made that choice.

It would be very interesting to find someone who hasn't seen her story, and show it to them from her perspective. Start with "The Bells of Saint John" but edit out all of the Doctor's stress about her being impossible and the woman twice dead. What is it like to get to know Clara without that distraction?

What you have is an educated young woman, finished with university, and either working as a teacher or on a break from work, who is staying with some friends who recently lost the mother of the family, and whose teenage children are going through the same loss she experienced as a teenager whose mother died. She's compassionate, but clearly an adult to their teenage nature. She's not trying to replace their mother. She does make a point of being an example of someone who has lost their mother, but has dealt with it, and an example of how you can remember your mother lovingly, and how the initial pain of early mourning will change.

Clara is not working as a nanny. She's helping friends, temporarily. They are already looking for a longer-term solution to their needs when we first meet her. She's relaxed, trusting them to not make demands on her indefinitely. The father is grateful, and looking for other help so that he isn't taking advantage of her generosity unreasonably.

Clara is motivated by kindness and friendship. Professionally, she's motivated to educate, nurture, and mentor. These things drive her interactions with the Doctor and her choices in their adventures.

Clara's strength lies in her people skills. She's not good with computers. She doesn't get along with the TARDIS. And when she does interact with the TARDIS, she does so by treating it as a person. Characterizing the Doctor's need for the TARDIS to like her as being like a boyfriend who needs his mother to like a girlfriend. But she isn't really comfortable with the idea of a person-like machine, also stepping back and characterizing the TARDIS as an "appliance." Less impressed, and more uncomfortable with the alien than other modern companions have been. The hacking skills she picks up when uploaded are put to use not merely hacking, but by understanding how the people working for her enemy will have used social media, and using that people-knowledge to find them.

Clara has an interest in travel. This is related to her fond memories of her mother, who shared the dream of travel with her through the "101 Places to See" book. But this is a fond memory and keepsake, something of a scrapbook of memories as well. Clara is not obsessed with this desire to travel. She'll postpone travels to care for friends in need. She'll take up the Doctor's offer to travel with him, eagerly. But she's not running away with him. When he frames his offer as "running away" she firmly declines, and suggests he comes back in the morning and ask again. And while the "101 Places to See" book represents her interest in travel, it doesn't define it. She's not looking to work her way through the book. She wants to see amazing things. And that's what she asks the Doctor for.

Clara is very much an adult. She's finished school, she has a job, she has a career and life she likes. She is at a stage in life that Amy and Rory were only beginning to reach when they left us. And she picks up their mature travel habits with the Doctor where they left off. In a way, this gives the Doctor a chance to continue to grow in his understanding of what a companion can be. Rory asked why the Doctor can't just phone ahead. Clara insists that he does phone ahead.

While we got a clear view of all of what a companion's life was with earlier modern companions, with Clara, her life is largely off-screen. What we see is her vacations and holidays.

Clara has a clearer sense of her own mortality than earlier modern companions. She's experienced death, up-close, through the death of her mother when she was a teenager, old enough to understand. Her first instinct, in danger, is to retreat to safety. She's not looking for adventure. But she will step up, and not walk away when someone is in need. As we see with the friends she's helping, with her reaching out to Merry as a scared child, with her responding to the disaster that was the GI disrupting the Doctor's timestream by sacrificing herself.

Clara isn't driven to rewrite history. Rather, when knowing history gives her a glimpse into a possible future, realizing that she must have stepped into the Doctor's timestream to be the women he remembers, it gives her the courage to carry through the act, writing history rather than rewriting it.

In a way, she reminds me of Liz Shaw, another woman who had a career, and who liked the Doctor but would not let the Doctor disrupt her life or hold her back. It is playing out differently because Clara's career doesn't put her in competition with the Doctor, and the Doctor isn't holding her back professionally. LIz was a trained scientist who wouldn't play second fiddle or function as merely an assistant, and Clara rejects the role of "assistant" as well. There is also a fair amount of Rory, particularly early Rory in her, with her refusal to be impressed, and her willingness to question the Doctor. But while Rory confronts the Doctor, Clara more simply says "no" to him when he's asking for more than she's willing to give, and she makes her "no" stick.

Clara is also interesting in that she's often made uncomfortable by the things she experiences. She initially sees the Doctor wanting to take her into a small box rather creepy. She's freaked out when the Doctor takes his snapshots of the life of Earth. The things that the Doctor shows his companions aren't always easy, and it is refreshing to have a companion who takes time to think about what she's experiencing, and who questions the new things she's experiencing rather than running ahead unthinkingly.
”

Superb! "Aim High" future Companions.
scumcat
23-12-2013
I am also not looking forward to Capaldi don't like him as an actor

Clara is by far the worst companion in nu who,

And I really dislike Rose although I liked bad wolf in the 50th
Tom Tit
23-12-2013
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“SJS is one of the worst companions the show ever had. Bland, boring, woodenly acted and totally undeserving of the legendary status that gets bestowed upon her. Combination of luck, being in the right era and the hazy glow of misguided nostalgia. (Great in School Reunion though!)”


You've pretty much perfectly nailed my own opinion here. I think her appeal has everything to do with timing: she just happened to be the companion during the show's most popular period of the classic era alongside the dream team of Tom Baker, Robert Holmes and Phillip Hinchliffe. On top of that she had pretty much the longest run of a companion at over 3 series. Add the show's highest audiences figures together with the longest run and just through mathematics you get a higher number of people for whom she was the companion that was present during their formative period of watching the show, and is therefore, from their perspective, the definitive version of what a companion should be.

The only part I disagree with is that I never thought she was particularly good when she returned either. In fact, I think she was particularly expressionless in School Reunion.

The Sarah-Jane Adventures I never watched; as you said, it was a children's show and I'm not that into Doctor Who that I will sit and watch children's television.


I don't know if I have any hugely controversial opinions beyond that. I don't really have an antagonistic relationship with the show as some fans seem to acquire and I can generally shrug off any aspects I don't like so much. I love all of An Unearthly Child, including 'the Tribe of Gum' parts, which I guess isn't much of a consenus opinion.

I guess my biggest one is that I hated what I saw of 'An Adventure in Time and Space', finding it trite, predicable and, frankly, an insult to William Hartnell. To reduce his life to a part he played in a TV show is just disgraceful in my opinion. His life was more important than a TV show. The scene with Matt Smith was probably the most nauseating fan wank I can imagine being broadcast. I dread the day Gattiss becomes showrunner. It may end my time watching the show - not out of a deluded point of principle, but simply because I don't think the show will be of a high enough quality for me to enjoy watching, and I won't become one of those embittered, antagonistic fans I alluded to above. Gattiss is simply a poor, poor writer.
codename_47
23-12-2013
There are two competing sides of fandom. Those who were a fan of The Original Series and Those who are fans of the newer series.
The reason there's so much conflict between them is both sides have different expectations about what Who should be.

The original series fans see Doctor Who as a science and mystery based show with the Doctor as an eccentric uncle.
When the show came back they couldn't handle the fact that only the best elements would be cherry picked out of the series they knew and mixed in with some new elements.

The newer fans are more ok with The Doctor as a romantic lead, the shorter timespan of the stories etc, but they have a completely different mindset in their heads of what Doctor who "should" be compared to those fans of the original series.
This means when they go back to view the 1960s+ series they react unfavorable but it's impossible to judge it as a TV show "of it's time" and not reflect on it from a modern standpoint.
This leads to somewhat mean opinions about the original series which isn't fair.

Also, it's the ORIGINAL Series, not the Classic series. It was brilliant, no doubt, but not all of it was Classic

The Tennant era was the biggest success from a British Mainstream point of view.
The current era cannot maintain that level of interest simply because it's not the "big new thing in town" any more.
It's not a reflection of writers or Doctors but the British public are now taking Doctor Who for granted again and not quite getting as interested in it, on a mainstream level, as they were from 2005/2010.

Conversly, the opposite is happening in the US. The same kind of splash that 9/10 and RTD got here is happening to Who over the pond so the 11th/Moffat era might be the most popular era to the Americans.

Doctor Who won't make it to it's 70th Anniversary.

The thing Matt Smith does with his arms when he talks (That I did laugh when Hurt called him on it in TDOTD) really annoys me and puts me off his Doctor.

Matt Smith was too young for the part. Fantastic Actor, but I never got the "old man in young body" thing that everyone seems to rave about.
I felt more likely he was going to sidle up to me and ask me to donate to his charity to save the plight of the Mongolian tiger than take me on an adventure tbh.
Also pairing him up with River was a mistake. Mid 20s guy with 50s woman?
Tennant got to kiss Billie, Freema, Katherine, Kylie, That eastenders woman and probably a few others.
Matt gets Grandma.
I'd be asking for my money back if I was him

The Tweed was a mistake. It's such a route 1 "eccentric" and shows an unoriginal streak from the costume department.
I'm glad as soon as Howard Burden came in he switched the costume up a bit.

The Tardis Dematerlising effect is boring and needs to be spruced up for Capaldi.

Bow Ties aren't cool!
Joe_Zel
23-12-2013
I'd hardly call Alex Kingston "grandma". She might be in her 50s, but she's hot.
Satmanager
23-12-2013
Originally Posted by codename_47:
“There are two competing sides of fandom. Those who were a fan of The Original Series and Those who are fans of the newer series.
The reason there's so much conflict between them is both sides have different expectations about what Who should be.

Conversly, the opposite is happening in the US. The same kind of splash that 9/10 and RTD got here is happening to Who over the pond so the 11th/Moffat era might be the most popular era to the Americans.

Doctor Who won't make it to it's 70th Anniversary.

The thing Matt Smith does with his arms when he talks (That I did laugh when Hurt called him on it in TDOTD) really annoys me and puts me off his Doctor.


Bow Ties aren't cool!”

As one of those Americans that discovered Doctor Who in 2011 but took the time to go back in time to discover the history of Doctor Who and actually view episodes from the Classic Era (Not all but I have seen some from all of the Doctors). You are right to say that there are differences between the two eras.

The new era has embraced digital special effects that were not possible back in the classic era. This has replaced, and I will agree not in a good way, with a well written, dialog driven story. They have let the special effects take over so we have flash, with no substance in some cases.

Perhaps with Capaldi taking over as the Doctor we will have the opportunity for him to bring more of the Doctor we saw with John Hurt (The Adult Doctor).

But Doctor Who has changed before, it will change again. Doctor Who is always about change. It is larger than one person, it is about the fans and not just the British fans now. It is a worldwide show. It will always be British but it belongs to everyone. The show will regenerate into something new and will continue. We will see 70 years and more.
marsch_labb
23-12-2013
I've heard that before that the original and new shows produce two different kind of fans.
So i suppose it fits this thread to say: 'i'm a fan of both the original and new doctors'.
And yes, it is very possible 'to judge it as a TV show "of it's time" and not reflect on it from a modern standpoint'. Unless your very young and haven't known anything else than the SFX era, it's quit easy.
Joe_Zel
23-12-2013
Well yeah, if you look at and judge the classic series by the modern day standards you're going to come out very disappointed and vice versa if you look at the modern show with your mind stuck in original series mode you deny yourself enjoyment of the new ones.

Both need to be taken as they are.
TheSilentFez
23-12-2013
Originally Posted by Joe_Zel:
“Well yeah, if you look at and judge the classic series by the modern day standards you're going to come out very disappointed and vice versa if you look at the modern show with your mind stuck in original series mode you deny yourself enjoyment of the new ones.

Both need to be taken as they are.”

I agree... and that's why I can like all eras of the show.
But being only 18, I'm more used to the modern approach to storytelling so I feel more comfortable with that.

Still doesn't stop me appreciating some absolutely fantastic Classic stories.
spiney2
23-12-2013
nu who is pretty much rubbish. what "story" there is just links the cgi sequences.

the single best story - weeping angels - has no cgi as such. interestingly. although some of the briefly seen angels were probably computer generated and not resin casts to save money .......
spiney2
23-12-2013
nu who is BIG in usa. taken bbc heirarchy completely by surprise if im any judge. why they now promote it instead of trying to destroy it like old who ........
November_Rain
23-12-2013
I don't particularly care for The Silence. They are just another adversary to me.
November_Rain
23-12-2013
Originally Posted by Helbore:
“Torchwood: Miracle Day isn't that bad and certainly not worse than most of season 1 and 2. It only gets a bad rap because its not as good as Children of Earth and the inexplicable USA-hatred.

Ianto Jones wasn't that great a character.

Partners in Crime is a dreadful episode and the "comedy" between the Doctor and Donna is horribly forced and unfunny.

Christopher Eccelston doesn't deserve to be skinned alive by the fans.

"A Christmas Carol," is the best Who xmas special by a country mile.”

Yes, I would agree with all of those.
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