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Old 27-12-2013, 13:13
SkyPlatinum
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Heavy rumours circulating coming in relation to vodafone are peparing a massive takeover of Sky. If this happens it would have huge implications for telephony and broadband in the uk.
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Old 27-12-2013, 13:28
iancarr
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it would never happen, sky now broadcast as the main satellite provider in many countries across Europe now
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Old 27-12-2013, 13:35
SkyPlatinum
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it would never happen, sky now broadcast as the main satellite provider in many countries across Europe now
Not true. Sky Italia and Sky Germany are 100 percent owned by news international (Murdoch) and a completely separate company from BSkyB
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Old 27-12-2013, 13:38
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http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...afone-bid.html
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Old 27-12-2013, 14:12
wavejockglw
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Very possible considering Vodafone's recent expansion into cable TV in Germany.

Vodafone/BskyB Vs BT & Virgin Media (Liberty Global).... Interesting.
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Old 27-12-2013, 15:37
clonmult
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Very possible considering Vodafone's recent expansion into cable TV in Germany.

Vodafone/BskyB Vs BT & Virgin Media (Liberty Global).... Interesting.
Also ties in with their move into fixed line telecoms (the CWW purchase).
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Old 27-12-2013, 16:13
enapace
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Would make them the only true quad play. The other's use MVNO for mobile networks.

I could perhaps see this happening Vodafone want to increase there profits in there home country.
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Old 27-12-2013, 17:10
psionic
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Will the taxman be happy, I wonder?
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Old 27-12-2013, 17:18
scruffpot
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I think the possibility of voda buying BSKYB is not going to happen as I doubt Murdoch would give up a part of his dark empire, or that something is acoming for him after the hacking incident, he wants to liquidate etc.
But the merging of sky and voda could be a possibility. For example Sky go completely free on certain tarrifs over 4g etc. Sky already denied a mobile network is on the cards, so after its take over of O2 and Be internet providers maybe a merger with vodaphone could be an answer.
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Old 27-12-2013, 19:44
Thine Wonk
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BSkyB says it generated "considerable" tax revenue of £911m in 2011 – £337m through corporation tax and business rates and £604m of taxes through customers' VAT payments and staff's employment taxes.

The company reckons it generates £2.3bn in tax in total.
So that means a huge amount less to pay for schools, hospitals and other public services if Vodafone tax dodge if they buy BskyB.
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Old 27-12-2013, 20:16
SkyPlatinum
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So that means a huge amount less to pay for schools, hospitals and other public services if Vodafone tax dodge if they buy BskyB.
I am not so sure it will happen. I really hope that it doesn't
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Old 27-12-2013, 20:40
Thine Wonk
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I am not so sure it will happen. I really hope that it doesn't
I hope not, in fact I'd like to see the government ban Vodafone from using the rural base stations that have been paid for out of taxation and publicise the fact that the other networks will be able to use them.
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Old 27-12-2013, 20:46
clonmult
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So that means a huge amount less to pay for schools, hospitals and other public services if Vodafone tax dodge if they buy BskyB.
Most of the money that the government receives is wasted on inane policies, massively inefficient social services, computer systems that go chronically over budget ...

So what is Vodafone "dodge tax"? What they're doing is 100% legal. And how much did they pay for the 4G license? I mean, thats effectively a tax.

If anyone here is at fault its the government for allowing such loopholes and being so damnably incompetent.
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Old 27-12-2013, 22:09
Thine Wonk
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Most of the money that the government receives is wasted on inane policies, massively inefficient social services, computer systems that go chronically over budget ...

So what is Vodafone "dodge tax"? What they're doing is 100% legal. And how much did they pay for the 4G license? I mean, thats effectively a tax.

If anyone here is at fault its the government for allowing such loopholes and being so damnably incompetent.
Right, lets tackle these one by one.

Computer projects cost money, some go extremely successfully (the ones you don't hear about) like the congestion charging systems for example. In industry many IT projects go wrong, it is a fact of the complexities involved. The company I work for has wasted millions in failed IT projects, but also had some very successful ones, it comes with the territory and a certain percentage failure is expected.

Whether it is hospitals, schools, police, defense, benefits, whatever the money the treasury takes in goes to pay for public services or on the national debt. Vodafone is immoral by evading tax through loopholes, yes the government need to fix them but the problem is new loopholes are found. Most other corporations pay tax and only some, most notably one of Britain's top companies that is based in the UK is evading huge amounts of tax.

All radio spectrum is finite, and as such we need to make sure it doesn't get wasted by not being used and we need a fair way of dishing out blocks for services the public use or indirect things it is needed for like ATC or industry. The fairest way is to charge and to allow people to compete for spectrum in an open market, that raises money. The companies then use the spectrum for services which generate them revenue and the public pays for that. Most tax is paid on profit not costs and spectrum is a necessary cost which is passed on to the consumer just like bandwidth or capex infrastructure cost when a business sets it's pricing structure.

Nobody forced Vodafone to buy more spectrum than anyone else in the auction and it is worth money should they want to sell it. If Vodafone hadn't have bought it the spectrum could have gone to another bidder and is really irrelevant in the tax debate.
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Old 27-12-2013, 22:11
sdduk
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Make you laugh suppose to be in about 800 million in debt
Dodging paying tax and now want to take over Sky
It could only happen in this country
Hope it don't happen you sky bills will rocket up.
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Old 27-12-2013, 22:45
alan1302
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Make you laugh suppose to be in about 800 million in debt
Dodging paying tax and now want to take over Sky
It could only happen in this country
Hope it don't happen you sky bills will rocket up.
I was under the impression Vodafone are profitable and sitting on a big pile of cash - which is where the idea they want to buy BSKYB has come from.

Companies take each over all the time and doesn't have an effect on the day to day charges.

Did o2 prices go up when Telefonica take them over?
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Old 27-12-2013, 22:51
wilt
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Right, lets tackle these one by one.

Computer projects cost money, some go extremely successfully (the ones you don't hear about) like the congestion charging systems for example. In industry many IT projects go wrong, it is a fact of the complexities involved. The company I work for has wasted millions in failed IT projects, but also had some very successful ones, it comes with the territory and a certain percentage failure is expected.

Whether it is hospitals, schools, police, defense, benefits, whatever the money the treasury takes in goes to pay for public services or on the national debt. Vodafone is immoral by evading tax through loopholes, yes the government need to fix them but the problem is new loopholes are found. Most other corporations pay tax and only some, most notably one of Britain's top companies that is based in the UK is evading huge amounts of tax.

All radio spectrum is finite, and as such we need to make sure it doesn't get wasted by not being used and we need a fair way of dishing out blocks for services the public use or indirect things it is needed for like ATC or industry. The fairest way is to charge and to allow people to compete for spectrum in an open market, that raises money. The companies then use the spectrum for services which generate them revenue and the public pays for that. Most tax is paid on profit not costs and spectrum is a necessary cost which is passed on to the consumer just like bandwidth or capex infrastructure cost when a business sets it's pricing structure.

Nobody forced Vodafone to buy more spectrum than anyone else in the auction and it is worth money should they want to sell it. If Vodafone hadn't have bought it the spectrum could have gone to another bidder and is really irrelevant in the tax debate.
Sigh, I wish all of this tax stuff would be debated where it's supposed to be, in the house of commons. Lobby your MP!

I know I personally don't pay a penny more tax than I absolutely have to - and I expect the same goes for everyone else here too.
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Old 27-12-2013, 23:12
alan1302
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I know I personally don't pay a penny more tax than I absolutely have to - and I expect the same goes for everyone else here too.
Yet everyone seems to think everyone else should pay as much as possible!
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Old 27-12-2013, 23:18
Thine Wonk
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Yet everyone seems to think everyone else should pay as much as possible!
I'm happy to pay my fair share and I think everyone else should too, that's how we became a civilised country.
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Old 27-12-2013, 23:19
alan1302
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I'm happy to pay my fair share and I think everyone else should too, that's how we became a civilised country.
I agree that everyone should pay their fair share.
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Old 27-12-2013, 23:26
plymouthbloke1974
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Vodafone buying BSky would be the biggest corporate disaster ever....and I'm not a BSkyB fanatic....
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Old 27-12-2013, 23:42
mogzyboy
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I'm happy to pay my fair share and I think everyone else should too, that's how we became a civilised country.
Whats a fair share though? For me, it's no more than I have to pay. I don't know of any loopholes that I could take advantage of.
Can't say Voda avoiding tax annoys me that much as it's down to the government to close the loopholes. I'd probably do the same if I was Voda. Who wouldn't? After all, it isn't illegal.
Tax evasion, on the other hand...
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Old 27-12-2013, 23:57
Thine Wonk
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Whats a fair share though? For me, it's no more than I have to pay. I don't know of any loopholes that I could take advantage of.
Can't say Voda avoiding tax annoys me that much as it's down to the government to close the loopholes. I'd probably do the same if I was Voda. Who wouldn't? After all, it isn't illegal.
Tax evasion, on the other hand...
The problem is the loopholes being closed would impact legitimate companies unfairly in some cases, or would cause businesses to leave the UK and set up elsewhere unless other counties did it at the same time. It is an incredibly complex topic, but not all companies evade tax and I wish consumers would not use businesses that aren't helping to fund the state pension, or the health service whilst making big profits in the country. It is immoral and if most corporations pay tax then why do some cheat.

I would love to see a clampdown and as I say things like Vodafone not being able to use the taxation funded base stations from the rural broadband project and for the government to clearly say why so consumers know. Vodafone know they are taking advantage of loopholes and sailing close to the wind. I liked it when those protestors highlighted it and I wish we saw more publicity so that companies won't avoid tax because of reputation damage.

Another idea is businesses that don't pay tax fairly should not be allowed to buy radio spectrum from a government regulator or should not have access to other government services that businesses use.

Don't play fair in funding government services, lose access to government services, for example no access to the courts service for civil litigation originating from the company, no access to spectrum auctions, no access to taxation funded base stations, no access to government funding on business growth, no government contracts awarded to companies that don't pay tax fairly. That would soon change their minds.
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Old 28-12-2013, 00:22
wilt
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The problem is the loopholes being closed would impact legitimate companies unfairly in some cases, or would cause businesses to leave the UK and set up elsewhere unless other counties did it at the same time. It is an incredibly complex topic, but not all companies evade tax and I wish consumers would not use businesses that aren't helping to fund the state pension, or the health service whilst making big profits in the country. It is immoral and if most corporations pay tax then why do some cheat.

I would love to see a clampdown and as I say things like Vodafone not being able to use the taxation funded base stations from the rural broadband project and for the government to clearly say why so consumers know. Vodafone know they are taking advantage of loopholes and sailing close to the wind. I liked it when those protestors highlighted it and I wish we saw more publicity so that companies won't avoid tax because of reputation damage.

Another idea is businesses that don't pay tax fairly should not be allowed to buy radio spectrum from a government regulator or should not have access to other government services that businesses use.

Don't play fair in funding government services, lose access to government services, for example no access to the courts service for civil litigation originating from the company, no access to spectrum auctions, no access to taxation funded base stations, no access to government funding on business growth, no government contracts awarded to companies that don't pay tax fairly. That would soon change their minds.
Well, hold on - who decides what is legitimate and what isn't? Journalists?
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Old 28-12-2013, 11:20
SkyPlatinum
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Vodafone buying BSky would be the biggest corporate disaster ever....and I'm not a BSkyB fanatic....
Totally agree Plymouth. Although to be fair I sit firmly in the EE camp. I love sky and think that their customer services and product offering is excellent. I would hate to see that diluted by voda. I really can't see Murdoch selling his 36 percent to them
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