is the nexus 5 battery as bad as people say

flagpole · 30-12-2013, 20:03

Quote:

Surely that depends on what your expectations are?

And if you have never run a battery down during the day you are obviously not a heavy user of battery draining services on a phone.

Yes if you had unrealistic expectations then when they were not meat you may be disappointed. Much as if you bought a car in the hope that it could fly.

alan1302 · 30-12-2013, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

Much as if you bought a car in the hope that it could fly.

Or if you bought a DeLorean in the hope you could go back to the future

jonmorris · 30-12-2013, 20:31

I can't believe anyone would say the N5 lasts exactly as long as a phone with a much bigger battery. Sure, the usage pattern might mean it lasts a day or more, but another S800 device would simply have more power left over if used the same.

Stiggles · 30-12-2013, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I can't believe anyone would say the N5 lasts exactly as long as a phone with a much bigger battery. Sure, the usage pattern might mean it lasts a day or more, but another S800 device would simply have more power left over if used the same.

IF the power management on both devices and the software on both devices etc is the same...

Stick a larger battery in an N5 and yes it will last longer obviously. Compare 2 different S800 devices with different hardware and OS's is completely pointless. While a bigger battery would have been good, the one that's in it is perfectly serviceable for most people and i guarantee 99% of people don't need to charge it before bed time.

jonmorris · 30-12-2013, 22:39

I fully accept you can't compare exact like for like. Even a different version of the OS can make a difference, but the fact is an extra 700mAh is significant. It WILL make a difference.

The OP asked if the battery was as bad as people say, and I've merely pointed out that it isn't as good as other flagship devices but whether that's as bad as 'people say' I don't know. If someone is saying the battery is terrible then most certainly NO this isn't true.

The battery is okay. In fact, it's pretty good, but it could have been a whole lot better. Part of this reason is cost, and the other reason is that Google is still trying to avoid attacking other Android manufacturers too hard - so each device has certain limitations that allows others to sell something 'better', albeit at a much higher cost. I do suspect that sooner or later, Google will hope to be in a position to start competing more heavily with Samsung, Sony, HTC and the like - and we'll no doubt see how this pans out in the years ahead.

But that's for another discussion.

For now, back to battery life. if someone makes a case that contains a secondary battery and can charge via Qi then that would be awesome. You CAN already buy a portable Qi charger, but obviously that isn't quite the same as something that is attached (but without the need to faff around with cables).

If some people can get by for a day or two between charges then that's great, but that's not my experience and you can see elsewhere that others have similar complaints. With my personal usage, two days is impossible. One day is certainly possible, but not guaranteed. If I'm on a train for a couple of hours and opt to watch a film, the screen on time really has an impact - and I think that's because the screen is usually too bright in automatic mode.

My phone is currently showing my average (and I got the Nexus 5 about 3 days after release) as 13 hours 20 minutes.

My Z1 is 19 hours 10 minutes.

The Moto G is 1 day 10 hours 20 minutes! That's over 34 hours!!!

(The above is from the Battery Widget Reborn app)

qasdfdsaq · 30-12-2013, 23:02

My HTC is now at 5 days 17 hours 42m (that's over 112 hours!) and still 43% left.

jonmorris · 30-12-2013, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

My HTC is now at 5 days 17 hours 42m (that's over 112 hours!) and still 43% left.

That's seriously good!

I think the best phone I've had (smartphone that is, not any of the many phones I've owned or reviewed/tested since the early 1990s) is the Motorola Razr MAXX. I used to be able to get almost a week from that.. actually, I probably still could as I have it in a drawer somewhere!

To be fair, however, that wouldn't be with 4-5 hours of screen-on time each day! And it certainly isn't lightning fast compared to any of the more recent phones on offer.

jonner101 · 31-12-2013, 11:15

I find it to be much the same as other android smartphones it will last a day for my type of usage easily which is all I require it to.

Trsvis_Bickle · 31-12-2013, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner101

I find it to be much the same as other android smartphones it will last a day for my type of usage easily which is all I require it to.

Yeah, same here. I just accept that a smartphone needs more or less daily charging and don't agonise about it.

I could understand this obsession with battery life if most of us weren't surrounded by power sources pretty much all the time. Heck, it's not as though your average working week is spent alone in the wilderness, is it?

Work in an office? Plug it into the USB port on your PC or into a spare mains socket.

In a cafe? Pinch a bit of power from a mains socket.

In a car? Plug it into the fag lighter.

When I'm out and about, I usually have a phone, ipod and ipad with me so it's no real hassle to carry a portable charger that weighs all of 100g, just in case I need to top up a device.

qasdfdsaq · 31-12-2013, 15:43

Yeah but the whole point of a mobile device gets diluted somewhat if it has to spend half the day tethered to a socket wherever you go, whether that be in the office, cafe or car.

jonner101 · 31-12-2013, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Yeah but the whole point of a mobile device gets diluted somewhat if it has to spend half the day tethered to a socket wherever you go, whether that be in the office, cafe or car.

In an average working day I'm far too busy working or doing other stuff, I'll just use my phone for the odd little check of email, perhaps a 1/2 internet browse over lunch and some texting. Maybe a couple of sudoku games or something like that. Even if I use it to take photos and videos quite heavily it still will last the day.

I would really have to struggle to drain the battery on my Nexus 5 in one day even with no power source available. The only time I've had an issue is when one of the google service programs had a bug and another time when I forgot to stop a navigation app running in the background.

Perhaps people can come up with some real world use case scenarios where the battery life is not good enough.

qasdfdsaq · 31-12-2013, 17:10

Android has an annoying limitation right now where mapping mobile signals (e.g. via Rootmetrics, Sensorly, OpenSignalMaps or any number of other apps) requires the screen to be on constantly. Sucks the battery of any of my phones dry in about 6-8 hours.

If I'm mapping for 12 hours a day that's a total pain.

Trsvis_Bickle · 01-01-2014, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Yeah but the whole point of a mobile device gets diluted somewhat if it has to spend half the day tethered to a socket wherever you go, whether that be in the office, cafe or car.

Half the day!?

Exaggeration much?

So you've had a few hours' heavy screen use and need to top it up for half an hour. Big deal.

The vast majority of smartphones require more or less daily charging with average use. That's because the vast majority of users find that perfectly acceptable and there's no incentive for manufacturers to fit more powerful batteries, especially as they are quite expensive components.

It's like cars; who cares what a car's range is in Britain where you're never more than 50 miles from a petrol station most of the time?

Long battery life is a solution looking for a problem.

jonmorris · 01-01-2014, 12:46

I'd so love a car with a range of 50 miles so I'm having to fill up every hour on a long drive.

Just because some people only drive a few miles a day doesn't mean everyone is happy with a small fuel tank. In fact polls regularly show people want better battery life and at any new product launch, a manufacturer will be sure to mention this as a key feature.

Oh and why do we keep getting the car analogies in this thread? Especially when car makers are so keen to promote models that have a longer range!

tdenson · 01-01-2014, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trsvis_Bickle

no incentive for manufacturers to fit more powerful batteries, especially as they are quite expensive

Not really, often smaller batteries carry a premium. Think AAA vs AA, or button batteries. really it's an issue of bulk rather than cost

Trsvis_Bickle · 01-01-2014, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I'd so love a car with a range of 50 miles so I'm having to fill up every hour on a long drive.

Just because some people only drive a few miles a day doesn't mean everyone is happy with a small fuel tank. In fact polls regularly show people want better battery life and at any new product launch, a manufacturer will be sure to mention this as a key feature.

Oh and why do we keep getting the car analogies in this thread? Especially when car makers are so keen to promote models that have a longer range!

Way to miss the point.

.

I'm guessing most cars in the UK have a range of between 500 and 1,000 miles on a single tank. There is no demand for vehicles with a range of, say, 2,000 miles.

Car makers don't promote vehicle ranges at all, precisely for the reasons I've outlined. They promote cars with more efficient fuel consumption but that's a different thing.

Can't say I've noticed a lot of car analogies on here myself but as most people drive, it's an obvious one to use.

jonmorris · 01-01-2014, 13:16

No it isn't. Analogies rarely work.

The point is, as it always was, that the battery is merely okay and there are devices which last longer. And it isn't true that the N5 lasts just as long as any other phone.

Now if you can manage with the battery, because your usage is really not that major (as the example further up) or you can easily top up via the mains or a portable charger, then fine.

But battery life is something more and more people care about - as they get more and more used to (even addicted to) using a smartphone or tablet for everything.

Usage will only continue to grow for most people.

qasdfdsaq · 01-01-2014, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trsvis_Bickle

Half the day!?

Exaggeration much?

So you've had a few hours' heavy screen use and need to top it up for half an hour. Big deal.

Not really. I have even big battery phones that have to be left on charge, literally all day, if it's in constant use.

Most portable chargers take 4-5 hours to fully charge a phone and slower, if at all, if it's in heavy use at the time - at best stopping battery charge going down without actually charging it.

Stiggles · 01-01-2014, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

No it isn't. Analogies rarely work.

The point is, as it always was, that the battery is merely okay and there are devices which last longer. And it isn't true that the N5 lasts just as long as any other phone.

Now if you can manage with the battery, because your usage is really not that major (as the example further up) or you can easily top up via the mains or a portable charger, then fine.

But battery life is something more and more people care about - as they get more and more used to (even addicted to) using a smartphone or tablet for everything.

Usage will only continue to grow for most people.

You are stating that as fact then i take it? Well it's complete rubbish.

I have given you an example of my usage which varies from light to heavy and my battery on my N5 always lasts the day no problem at all which is of course what any other smartphone lasts.

qasdfdsaq · 01-01-2014, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

I have given you an example of my usage which varies from light to heavy and my battery on my N5 always lasts the day no problem at all which is of course what any other smartphone lasts.

Except other smartphones last much longer than a day with the same usage.

Stiggles · 01-01-2014, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Except other smartphones last much longer than a day with the same usage.

What other smartphones are these then?

I've had a few this year as well and i havent seen one yet....

qasdfdsaq · 01-01-2014, 15:23

Scroll up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

My HTC is now at 5 days 17 hours 42m (that's over 112 hours!) and still 43% left.

As for your "this year" comment - you do realize smartphones have existed for longer than a day, right?

jonmorris · 01-01-2014, 15:24

Galaxy S4, Xperia Z1, LG G2, Motorola G.. I am sure others can add to the list.

jonner101 · 01-01-2014, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Galaxy S4, Xperia Z1, LG G2, Motorola G.. I am sure others can add to the list.

It's true that different smartphones will have differing battery life but I think the point really being missed is that none of them are vastly superior to any other.

There may be some niche use cases where it will be a problem but in general as long as a phone will comfortably last a day under normal usage, which a Nexus 5 will do then I don't think it's a massive big deal. There are plenty of external chargers and so on which may be of use to some people.

An example of a real improvement would be an e-ink reader which has a battery life of weeks, to get this in a smartphone will require a new technological breakthrough.

qasdfdsaq · 01-01-2014, 22:23

A new technological breakthrough such as... e-ink?

There are phones with e-ink displays. And hybrid displays.

30-12-2013, 20:03	#26
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Quote: Originally Posted by alan1302 Surely that depends on what your expectations are? And if you have never run a battery down during the day you are obviously not a heavy user of battery draining services on a phone. Yes if you had unrealistic expectations then when they were not meat you may be disappointed. Much as if you bought a car in the hope that it could fly.

01-01-2014, 13:07	#41
Trsvis_Bickle Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,940	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris I'd so love a car with a range of 50 miles so I'm having to fill up every hour on a long drive. Just because some people only drive a few miles a day doesn't mean everyone is happy with a small fuel tank. In fact polls regularly show people want better battery life and at any new product launch, a manufacturer will be sure to mention this as a key feature. Oh and why do we keep getting the car analogies in this thread? Especially when car makers are so keen to promote models that have a longer range! Way to miss the point.. I'm guessing most cars in the UK have a range of between 500 and 1,000 miles on a single tank. There is no demand for vehicles with a range of, say, 2,000 miles. Car makers don't promote vehicle ranges at all, precisely for the reasons I've outlined. They promote cars with more efficient fuel consumption but that's a different thing. Can't say I've noticed a lot of car analogies on here myself but as most people drive, it's an obvious one to use.

30-12-2013, 20:29	#27
alan1302 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Yorks Posts: 6,180	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole Much as if you bought a car in the hope that it could fly. Or if you bought a DeLorean in the hope you could go back to the future

30-12-2013, 20:31	#28
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I can't believe anyone would say the N5 lasts exactly as long as a phone with a much bigger battery. Sure, the usage pattern might mean it lasts a day or more, but another S800 device would simply have more power left over if used the same.

30-12-2013, 20:38	#29
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris I can't believe anyone would say the N5 lasts exactly as long as a phone with a much bigger battery. Sure, the usage pattern might mean it lasts a day or more, but another S800 device would simply have more power left over if used the same. IF the power management on both devices and the software on both devices etc is the same... Stick a larger battery in an N5 and yes it will last longer obviously. Compare 2 different S800 devices with different hardware and OS's is completely pointless. While a bigger battery would have been good, the one that's in it is perfectly serviceable for most people and i guarantee 99% of people don't need to charge it before bed time.

30-12-2013, 22:39	#30
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I fully accept you can't compare exact like for like. Even a different version of the OS can make a difference, but the fact is an extra 700mAh is significant. It WILL make a difference. The OP asked if the battery was as bad as people say, and I've merely pointed out that it isn't as good as other flagship devices but whether that's as bad as 'people say' I don't know. If someone is saying the battery is terrible then most certainly NO this isn't true. The battery is okay. In fact, it's pretty good, but it could have been a whole lot better. Part of this reason is cost, and the other reason is that Google is still trying to avoid attacking other Android manufacturers too hard - so each device has certain limitations that allows others to sell something 'better', albeit at a much higher cost. I do suspect that sooner or later, Google will hope to be in a position to start competing more heavily with Samsung, Sony, HTC and the like - and we'll no doubt see how this pans out in the years ahead. But that's for another discussion. For now, back to battery life. if someone makes a case that contains a secondary battery and can charge via Qi then that would be awesome. You CAN already buy a portable Qi charger, but obviously that isn't quite the same as something that is attached (but without the need to faff around with cables). If some people can get by for a day or two between charges then that's great, but that's not my experience and you can see elsewhere that others have similar complaints. With my personal usage, two days is impossible. One day is certainly possible, but not guaranteed. If I'm on a train for a couple of hours and opt to watch a film, the screen on time really has an impact - and I think that's because the screen is usually too bright in automatic mode. My phone is currently showing my average (and I got the Nexus 5 about 3 days after release) as 13 hours 20 minutes. My Z1 is 19 hours 10 minutes. The Moto G is 1 day 10 hours 20 minutes! That's over 34 hours!!! (The above is from the Battery Widget Reborn app)

30-12-2013, 23:02	#31
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	My HTC is now at 5 days 17 hours 42m (that's over 112 hours!) and still 43% left.

30-12-2013, 23:14	#32
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq My HTC is now at 5 days 17 hours 42m (that's over 112 hours!) and still 43% left. That's seriously good! I think the best phone I've had (smartphone that is, not any of the many phones I've owned or reviewed/tested since the early 1990s) is the Motorola Razr MAXX. I used to be able to get almost a week from that.. actually, I probably still could as I have it in a drawer somewhere! To be fair, however, that wouldn't be with 4-5 hours of screen-on time each day! And it certainly isn't lightning fast compared to any of the more recent phones on offer.

31-12-2013, 11:15	#33
jonner101 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,153	I find it to be much the same as other android smartphones it will last a day for my type of usage easily which is all I require it to.

31-12-2013, 12:26	#34
Trsvis_Bickle Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,940	Quote: Originally Posted by jonner101 I find it to be much the same as other android smartphones it will last a day for my type of usage easily which is all I require it to. Yeah, same here. I just accept that a smartphone needs more or less daily charging and don't agonise about it. I could understand this obsession with battery life if most of us weren't surrounded by power sources pretty much all the time. Heck, it's not as though your average working week is spent alone in the wilderness, is it? Work in an office? Plug it into the USB port on your PC or into a spare mains socket. In a cafe? Pinch a bit of power from a mains socket. In a car? Plug it into the fag lighter. When I'm out and about, I usually have a phone, ipod and ipad with me so it's no real hassle to carry a portable charger that weighs all of 100g, just in case I need to top up a device.

31-12-2013, 15:43	#35
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Yeah but the whole point of a mobile device gets diluted somewhat if it has to spend half the day tethered to a socket wherever you go, whether that be in the office, cafe or car.

31-12-2013, 17:07	#36
jonner101 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,153	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq Yeah but the whole point of a mobile device gets diluted somewhat if it has to spend half the day tethered to a socket wherever you go, whether that be in the office, cafe or car. In an average working day I'm far too busy working or doing other stuff, I'll just use my phone for the odd little check of email, perhaps a 1/2 internet browse over lunch and some texting. Maybe a couple of sudoku games or something like that. Even if I use it to take photos and videos quite heavily it still will last the day. I would really have to struggle to drain the battery on my Nexus 5 in one day even with no power source available. The only time I've had an issue is when one of the google service programs had a bug and another time when I forgot to stop a navigation app running in the background. Perhaps people can come up with some real world use case scenarios where the battery life is not good enough.

31-12-2013, 17:10	#37
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Android has an annoying limitation right now where mapping mobile signals (e.g. via Rootmetrics, Sensorly, OpenSignalMaps or any number of other apps) requires the screen to be on constantly. Sucks the battery of any of my phones dry in about 6-8 hours. If I'm mapping for 12 hours a day that's a total pain.

01-01-2014, 12:21	#38
Trsvis_Bickle Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,940	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq Yeah but the whole point of a mobile device gets diluted somewhat if it has to spend half the day tethered to a socket wherever you go, whether that be in the office, cafe or car. Half the day!? Exaggeration much? So you've had a few hours' heavy screen use and need to top it up for half an hour. Big deal. The vast majority of smartphones require more or less daily charging with average use. That's because the vast majority of users find that perfectly acceptable and there's no incentive for manufacturers to fit more powerful batteries, especially as they are quite expensive components. It's like cars; who cares what a car's range is in Britain where you're never more than 50 miles from a petrol station most of the time? Long battery life is a solution looking for a problem.

01-01-2014, 12:46	#39
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I'd so love a car with a range of 50 miles so I'm having to fill up every hour on a long drive. Just because some people only drive a few miles a day doesn't mean everyone is happy with a small fuel tank. In fact polls regularly show people want better battery life and at any new product launch, a manufacturer will be sure to mention this as a key feature. Oh and why do we keep getting the car analogies in this thread? Especially when car makers are so keen to promote models that have a longer range!

01-01-2014, 12:59	#40
tdenson Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,214	Quote: Originally Posted by Trsvis_Bickle no incentive for manufacturers to fit more powerful batteries, especially as they are quite expensive Not really, often smaller batteries carry a premium. Think AAA vs AA, or button batteries. really it's an issue of bulk rather than cost

01-01-2014, 13:16	#42
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	No it isn't. Analogies rarely work. The point is, as it always was, that the battery is merely okay and there are devices which last longer. And it isn't true that the N5 lasts just as long as any other phone. Now if you can manage with the battery, because your usage is really not that major (as the example further up) or you can easily top up via the mains or a portable charger, then fine. But battery life is something more and more people care about - as they get more and more used to (even addicted to) using a smartphone or tablet for everything. Usage will only continue to grow for most people.

01-01-2014, 14:37	#43
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by Trsvis_Bickle Half the day!? Exaggeration much? So you've had a few hours' heavy screen use and need to top it up for half an hour. Big deal. Not really. I have even big battery phones that have to be left on charge, literally all day, if it's in constant use. Most portable chargers take 4-5 hours to fully charge a phone and slower, if at all, if it's in heavy use at the time - at best stopping battery charge going down without actually charging it.

01-01-2014, 14:46	#44
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris No it isn't. Analogies rarely work. The point is, as it always was, that the battery is merely okay and there are devices which last longer. And it isn't true that the N5 lasts just as long as any other phone. Now if you can manage with the battery, because your usage is really not that major (as the example further up) or you can easily top up via the mains or a portable charger, then fine. But battery life is something more and more people care about - as they get more and more used to (even addicted to) using a smartphone or tablet for everything. Usage will only continue to grow for most people. You are stating that as fact then i take it? Well it's complete rubbish. I have given you an example of my usage which varies from light to heavy and my battery on my N5 always lasts the day no problem at all which is of course what any other smartphone lasts.

01-01-2014, 15:01	#45
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggles I have given you an example of my usage which varies from light to heavy and my battery on my N5 always lasts the day no problem at all which is of course what any other smartphone lasts. Except other smartphones last much longer than a day with the same usage.

01-01-2014, 15:14	#46
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq Except other smartphones last much longer than a day with the same usage. What other smartphones are these then? I've had a few this year as well and i havent seen one yet....

01-01-2014, 15:23	#47
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Scroll up: Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq My HTC is now at 5 days 17 hours 42m (that's over 112 hours!) and still 43% left. As for your "this year" comment - you do realize smartphones have existed for longer than a day, right?

DS Forums

is the nexus 5 battery as bad as people say

01-01-2014, 15:24	#48
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Galaxy S4, Xperia Z1, LG G2, Motorola G.. I am sure others can add to the list.

01-01-2014, 17:24	#49
jonner101 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,153	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris Galaxy S4, Xperia Z1, LG G2, Motorola G.. I am sure others can add to the list. It's true that different smartphones will have differing battery life but I think the point really being missed is that none of them are vastly superior to any other. There may be some niche use cases where it will be a problem but in general as long as a phone will comfortably last a day under normal usage, which a Nexus 5 will do then I don't think it's a massive big deal. There are plenty of external chargers and so on which may be of use to some people. An example of a real improvement would be an e-ink reader which has a battery life of weeks, to get this in a smartphone will require a new technological breakthrough.

01-01-2014, 22:23	#50
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	A new technological breakthrough such as... e-ink? There are phones with e-ink displays. And hybrid displays.