Am I the only one who liked the last 4th Doctor series?
I know he was grumpy - but he seemed to have more of a 'presence' if you like - maybe due to the new costume?
#As for his cameo in the 50th -
I had to hide my face away watching as I started to sniffle[wife would've taken piss], he looks so old and frail - heartbreaking.

I tend to agree with you, though it wasn't as distressing (for me, at least) as Hartnell's appearance in the 10th anniversary special.

Personally, I don't see how the lead actor on a show is supposed to remain equanimous and magnanimous when the producer (John Nathan Turner) and script editor (Christopher Bidmead) are actively seeking to undermine his performance, especially when they were total newcomers with no proven track record, either on the show they're working on or any other. I'd have gotten pretty pissed off with their unprofessional approach too.

But, sure it's easy to simplify everything as 'Tom Baker was a nasty, nasty man' if one likes to be simplistic.

As for, Louise Jameson, I don't excuse aggressive behaviour, but I've never heard of any. All I've ever heard was that the lively, intellectual wit of the charismatic Tom Baker was entirely unstimulated by the earnest but dull personality of Louise Jameson. But I guess in the luvvie world of acting Tom Baker was expected to flatter and feign interest in her. Not doing so is supposedly bad treatment.

Graham Williams didn't undermine Baker, yet he was still cantankerous in his years.

Ouf, that's a bit much. Louise Jameson has been largely positive about Tom Baker since and they are now good friends who enjoy working together. She's allowed to be honest about their time together, though, surely?. The anecdotal evidence and stories about him suggest that this was a way of behaving he had to a number of people, and has been backed up by others so it's not just coming from her - and she's never claimed he was 'abusive' as far as I'm aware? Just that they didn't get on and found him difficult to work with at the time.

It is no secret that he disliked the character of Leela and wanted it to be just him on his own after Sarah Jane left. He'd also inherited Lis Sladen from Jon Pertwee when he was new and more on the backfoot, so their relationship was probably always going to be more supportive. Louise was the first assistant who was 'given' to him when he'd established himself in the role and obviously felt a bit more in charge and the cantankerousness was starting.

delete - misread what I was quoting

I ahve never heard anyone describe Louise Jameson as "earnest but dull" before! I've met her a number of times and would think those two adjectives are a million miles from accurate!

Tom Baker was bloody hard work, back in the day. There are all sorts of horror stories about him. His personal life was very complex with girlfriends all over the place, and he was drinking and hellraising too much. As he grew into the part, he "became" the part. Lalla Ward fell in love with the Doctor, not Tom Baker.

There are stories throughout his tenure about how awkward or unpleasant or bullying he could be. Louise Jameson. Paddy Russell. One of the lighthouse crew in Fang Rock (can't remember the actor's name). Matthew Waterhouse, of course. The whole of BBC Birmingham during the recording of Fang Rock. Scripts hurled across the studio by Tom yelling that they're "whippet-sh.t".

I once chatted to an actor who had a prominent guest role in one of Tom's DWs (I couldn't possibly name this person). Cast and crew were away on location and went for a slap-up meal. Tom got up from the table, pissed, and said he was bored with them all, then went to McDonalds round the corner.

The Matthew Waterhouse book is fascinating.

Also remember he was originally hired by Barry Letts. So by the time JNT came along that was 4 Producers he had worked with.

Here's some info from wiki so take with a pinch of salt about Season 18.

"Tom Baker, Lalla Ward, Barry Letts and Christopher H. Bidmead all protested John Nathan-Turner's decision to add question-marks to Baker's shirts, arguing that it was gimmicky. Baker in particular was unhappy with it and told Nathan-Turner that it was "annoying, absurd and ridiculous""

"Bidmead, who found working with Tom Baker "difficult to say the very least", supposedly told Baker and Nathan-Turner during recording of The Leisure Hive that exclamation marks would have been more appropriate for Baker's shirts."

"Baker also disliked his new scarf, requesting that his old multi-coloured one be re-instated, but expressed gratitude to costume designer June Hudson for refusing to adhere to Nathan-Turner's demands to ditch the trademark scarf altogether and managing to find a compromise."

"Tom Baker and Lalla Ward criticising the change in theme music and opening titles. Baker also criticised the new synthesised incidental music"

"Baker said that he wanted the scripts to improve and regain some of the quality of those of the Philip Hinchcliffe era, as he felt that the quality of the scripts and storylines had declined under Graham Williams. He later said that he felt such improvements did not by and large occur, and that most of Nathan-Turner's changes were either cosmetic or misguided."

Yeah, I think I've read that as well before.

Maybe you can understand with all the changes going on that he wouldn't be happy. As has been pointed out, being in a show as lead actor a long time can mean you know better than most what suits the show and what doesn't. I think as we saw with the Hartnell Documentary in November that he was similar in this regard.

So with JNT coming in and trying to stamp his mark on the show with all the changes, the cutdown in humour and problems with Lalla Ward as well, you can see why Season 18 was perhaps was bit trying for him. Add in new companions coming in towards the end of his run and you can see why he might have got a bit cantankerous.

Bluntly, Tom got on with Sladen as she was already incumbent in the show. He had little time for her, or few other cast members for that matter outside of the show.

Generally, if you were around his age, or older, famous and enjoyed a drink, chances are socially he was fine.

When Lis passed away, of course Tom was upset, she being far far too young to die, and his first assistant too. But I won't forget the times he wouldn't share a stage with her as is was "his stage", nor did he or Lis ever correspond in the decades that passed.

Most of the assistants don't have good memories of Tom, thou for the time being just regard him as eccentric.. In particular he had a terrible habit of totally ignoring you, at read throughs and even shooting the scene for TV.

Funnily enough, I've finished listening to the DVD commentary on 'Underworld', and Tom mentions how he could be very rude to people (particularly Graham Williams) during his time on Dr Who, and wishes he could go back and behave differently. He also mentions how he didn't get on with JNT but they became friendly after he left Dr Who.

At one point in the commentary, he asks Louise if they were getting along at this point in their working relationship, and she replied that "they were by now".

Louise said during an interview last year that there was a time when Tom was one of three people she would never work with again, but now they get on really well. When Tom moved back from France around six years ago, he initially lived not far from Louise in Tunbridge Wells and they used to have lunch together fairly regularly.

I think he's mellowed tremendously in his old age, and admits he was difficult and obnoxious in the past. But he'll be 80 in a couple of weeks, so we should be grateful he's still around (considering his wild younger days!).

According to Louise on the Horror of Fang Rock commentary, there was an incident during the making of that story where she stood up to Tom's difficult behaviour, something which changed their relationship for the better. As far as I've read and heard, from then on they got on much better for the remainder of her time on the programme.

Lis and Tom were both very open about the fact that they didn't socialise outside of the programme but I don't think this necessarily translates as him having "little time for her". I would assume that their social lives were obviously quite different. It's always been said that they were extremely fond of each other and I've never heard anything which contradicts this.

Yes, I got the impression that Lis got on far better with Tom than with Jon Pertwee and they were very fond of each other - but that it was all mostly self-contained on set and he was a bit lost if he ever bumped into her in 'real life'. As you say, their lives outside the show were very different.

I know they're friendly now, and I'm glad they get on. I like Louise Jameson well enough, but I get tired of hearing how mean Tom Baker supposedly was to her. All I've ever heard is he didn't pay much attention to her. Get over it love. Yes, she seems to have done that now but only because Tom now gives her the positive attention she craves, so she'll stop moaning about him on the convention circuit.

And yes, Tom was sharp with a lot of people. So was Hartnell, so was Troughton, so was Pertwee etc. It's not to his credit but it's the pressure of being leading man and actually giving a shit about the role. I'm sick of hearing it all being put on Tom Baker as if everyone else was nice as pie and he was just a wicked, abhorrent man.

I guess Tom doesn't have the lovely, sweet smile and apparent vulnerability of Lalla Ward so of course, he must have just been a total bastard to her. Except, it takes two people to make a relationship and two people to make a bad marriage. Without knowing the intimate details of their lives (and not wanting to) I'm not willing to cast Tom Baker as the villain and Lalla as the wronged heroine with the lily-white skin. In fairness to Lalla, I never hear her or Tom slag off the other. Most of my railing in this thread is against the fans who say this kind of rubbish, not the people involved.

I like that Tom has personality and was never a towing the line drone like everyone involved in the show is expected to be now, even when they leave, so they don't spoil their chances of being invited back. It's so boring to hear people who have paid good money to be at conventions getting the same old Moffat scripted enthusiasm from the cast and crew. 'Bonkers', 'vast', 'epic' etc. If you believe it all you'll think that the Doctor Who production team were specially selected from the world's nicest people. Guess what? It's BS. We'll hear all the dirt about who was really an arse in the years to come, just like we get it about Tom Baker now.

Tom Baker isn't faultless. I'm sure he went too far on numerous occasions with the way he behaved but there was plenty of crap coming back at him too. But all we ever hear is Tom Baker being 'cantankerous', 'difficult', 'abrasive'. Well, given John Nathan Turner ran the show into the ground and got it cancelled and Chris Bidmead has done nothing whatsoever of note since his time on the show,, I would say Tom was probably right in a lot of his attitudes about them.

Tom said himself in the past (before the current pally situation with Louise) that she didn't get his sense of humour and he found her boring and po-faced.

The incident above is a good example of how Tom operated. If you earned his respect he was by all accounts as pleasant as you would want. A weak producer (Graham Williams)or out of their depth director (numerous in those days) didn't do that.

You might want to check who the OP was of this thread

When I've watched more Tom Baker I'll feel qualified to comment, till then I'll pass.

Christopher H Bidmead always strikes me as someone who has a very high opinion of himself. He talks about his Doctor Who scripts as though they were works of genius, when in fact they were mostly self-indulgent twaddle, full of plot holes you could drive a space ship through.

Tom Baker, a great Doctor, but a shoddy person. The kind of condescending sort who believes he is better than everyone else. It's no mere coincidence many a person who worked with him disliked him at one time or another.

Eh? What fans have been talking about Lalla's "Lily white skin" and casting Tom as the villain in that scenario? I haven't seen any of that personally - looks more like a few unrelated 'issues' creeping in for you here, lol. With regard to Tom and Lalla, it just seemed clear they were mismatched, really, in terms of lifestyle and expectations. I like Tom and his personality/eccentricities too, it's what people love about him, but I don't think pointing out his cantankerousness is casting him as some sort of villain particularly, it's just interesting. Nor do I think either Lalla or Louise have played the "poor me" victim card. At all.

Totally agree about JNT, I have to say. I think he was about the worst thing that could've happened to Who.

I disagree with that slightly.

I think some of JNT's changes in Season 18 were welcome. Updating the title sequence and music, which had stayed the same for most of Baker's run, were well needed. However, I didn't like the overly science approach, the cutting down on the humour and the treatment of K9.

For me it was Season 19 that saw him at his peak. He had a New Doctor and there were some wonderfully original and inventive stories in that run.

However, in Season 20 he did start to cater to the fans with endlessly returning monsters but the show was still good.

As often discussed before, he just stayed in the role too long and he should really have left when Davison did and when he did decide he wanted to leave, he wasn't allowed to, and that isn't his fault. What happened during the McCoy Era was as much the BBC's fault as it was his. A New Producer could have done wonders at that time if the BBC had just let it happen.

So I wouldn't say he was the worst thing that happened to the show, it was just a combination of factors that led to it's cancellation in 1989.

You know what daveyboy? I have yet to read a post of yours that I am not in nodding agreement with.

You are a dude!

I fully agree with this post.

Well thanks guys, best I start polishing my halo!

Tom's an original: a one off. He captured a lot of people's hearts with his performance. But the truth is that he was difficult to work with at various points of his time on the show: it's well documented by lots of people, not just the actors but the people working on the set, behind the scenes and the like who found him a nightmare. Not all the time, certainly, but that unpredictability and mercurial nature made it difficult.

Tom is much more mellow and appologetic these days, and looking back on how he was (especially given that he was unwell during season 18) he seems to regret the way he behaved. Regardless of whether the creative decisions that came in on season 18 are good or otherwise - I think some worked well and others not so much - when you have an unpredictable lead who has grown so much into the role that he thinks he owns it you don't really have much choice but to try and curb things. Nobody in any show should have that much power.

Sad as it was I can understand why the powers that be wanted to bring in new ideas - and indeed a new doctor.

Why blame the BBC when no other producers in the BBC would touch the show with a bargepole?