I'm quite aware that Michael Grade hated Who, probably sci-fi in general, and that he is a Grade-A **** (pun intentded).

But to blame him for the axe of the show two years after he left is somewhat ridiculous. He contributed to the axing, but he didn't make that final decision. As far as he cared, the show could have been improved after he left.

There was no-one who wanted to produce the show, so the BBC in a last, desperate attempt to rescue it, forced JNT, who knew it better than any other staff producer within the BBC, to stay on.

Whilst the quality did (arguably) improve throughout Sylvester's run, the ratings didn't. The last season on Saturdays got poor ratings, so they tried sceduling on weekdays, which was previously successful. Unfortunately, the BBC's scheduling decisions had changed by that time, and the regional news and Wogan/whatever was on Tuesdays and Thursdays occupied the slot that Davison's run got, so now the only slot ideal for it on weekdays was half 7, opposite Corrie. In fact, against Corrie, they actually got worse during Syl's run.

I'm doubting it would have got much better on weeknights that Corrie wasn't on. In fact, I even doubt that the fate of the show around 1985/86 would have been much better, considering how badly some seasons did do previously. There is a debate over on GallifreyBase about when the death of the classic series began, and opinion ther is split three ways, between Grade and the subsequent resting of the series, JNT being employed as producer and Graham Williams replacing Philip Hinchcliffe as producer.

As for the show being axed instead of my claim of "rested", I suggest you take a look at the "Endgame" documentary on the Survival DVD. There they have an interview with the man who axed Doctor Who himself, Peter Cregeen, who disputes many fans' claim that the show was officially axed.

The difference being, when you axe something, you don't intend to make it again. A rest means just that, a rest, with an intention to return to it at a future date. The BBC began looking for indie investment for the show, whilst giving it a rest. The 1996 TV movie (and the co-partnership with Fox/Universal or whoever it was) and the current series are a result of that rest.

I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't Grade actually axe the programme in 1985, and it was the press campaign that reversed this decision?

He did,. but the main discussion about "axing" was whether the show was axed or not (it wasn't, officially) in 1989.

You are confusing me here. One minute you are saying Grade has nothing to do with the axing even indirectly....and the next minute you are!

From what we've discussed, this was all I and several others tried to point out to you. Off course Grade didn't make the final decision, I never claimed that but the hiatus he created, (which he really wanted to be an axing even in '85)did have a negative impact on the show which saw it end in 1989.

There's enough evidence which myself and other posters have shown you which backs that up.

I've heard the Survival documentary and other shows where Sophie Aldred got the call from the BBC, informing her they weren't making the show anymore. IMHO if any show on TV suddenly ceases production, it's a cancellation. Plus, according to the Seventh Doctor Handbook, it was effectively cancelled as a BBC production. So maybe that's the way to see it, as a cancellation of sorts.

Yet the person who "axed" it said it was "rested". I believe they were telephoned in August 1990 with the news that the Doctor Who production office was to be wound down, that's still not a sign of an axe falling on the show.

My claim towards Grade is saying he contributed towards the axing/resting/whatever you want to call it of the show, but in the end, he didn't make the decision to rest it in 1989, merely contributed towards the reasons why they had to consider doing so. He didn't finally make that decision. So why blame him?

Does it really need any more explaining? I think I've made my point over and over again that Grade's decision to put the show on hiatus ultimately led to the show's downfall. He was the director of programmes, he had the power to put it on hiatus and therefore it led finally to the decision to axe it in '89 even though as we both now agree he didn't take the final decision himself. Off course there were other factors, that's why we started having this debate but that was the most important one.

As for the cancellation, I'm sorry, call it what you want but the fact remained it didn't come back after Season 26 and most other people do generally regard it as an axing/cancellation whatever you want to call it. I do know about the attempts to farm it out to an exterior company but it didn't happen, therefore, no more show, it was cancelled imo, simple as that.

I think you have made some really good points and put your views across really well and on the whole being quite civilised unlike some debates that go completely off the rails(New Who fans take note) However, I do think we are going round in circles with this discussion. In circumstances like these I often think it's better to agree to disagree and move on. We are clearly never gonna agree on the Grade/Cancellation matter but I do thank you for an interesting Classic Who discussion! It don't happen often enough on here!

No, I still don't agree. Instead of attempting to repair the show, Peter Cregeen decided to cease it for a while, so in my mind, that puts the ultimate responsibility of the resting of the show with him, as he made that final decision.

The farmout did happen . . . eventually (in 1996).

I was just going to terminate this discussion. This has proven to me that this is one of those things in TV that the truth will forever be debated. Like how Thames lost the 1991 ITV franchise round.

Now why doesn't that surprise me?!

I stick to my guns about Michael Grade but I agree it's good to have a debate about things like this. Just shows how opinions differ and how people see things from different angles.

Thank goodness we never started discussing what happened to Lord Lucan...........