I agree with you completely! Homophobia is completely unacceptable and just shows a complete ignorance of what sexuality actually is. Homophobes reduce human sexuality to merely a practical function for reproduction, which as any psychologist will tell you it's far more complex than that. There is more to sex than making babies.

It's also an arrogance that your personal orientation is the right one. Homosexuality exists within all species and has been demonised by modern religions, but I digress.

My point was that Evander Hollyfield was "keeping it real" and he spouted horrific and upsetting views, but if you have Luisa's attitude or if you are one of these people that say "That's just the way I am" then by your own criteria you can't criticise him, as he's just "keeping it real"

'The most disgraceful display of bad manners I've seen in many a long day' Nick Hewer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmHtV6tGF48

In this case, there was no difference whatsoever.. If Luisa had a problem with Lee and Casey's flirting, she could have said so to their faces instead of whispering poison into Jasmine's ear about them.
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YOu are hoist by your own petard. Luisa was obviously whispering behind someone's back unkind things that she would not say to their face. Is this 'inspirational'?

And again. Linda WAS saying what she thought, openly and to someone's face. She was not 'planting seeds', she was perfectly straightforwardly stating her case. So you should, by your own argument, find her inspirational.

Absolutely agree. What a good post.

She is inspirational for people that are selfish, ruthless, manipulative and rude.
That clip on YouTube is a reminder of how she treats people in business, she should have been fired then...

I don't think it was poison or spiteful or malicious.


You don't think that can plant seeds?

It can!

Inspirational if you have narcissistic tendencies I suppose.

Honesty and saying it how it is is great a lot of the time

but certainly not all of the time

sometimes there are moments in life when you just need to shut up and keep ones opinion to ones self

a decent person knows when these moments are.

It amuses me that there are posters who are in the 'Luisa's one of those awful speak your mind types' so her card is now marked from here on in and those who agree with that stance and yet go on to say they are in the 'Luisa's a bitch as she should say it to their face' camp (again cards marked!).

Well come on which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Why do people have to deal in absolutes here? An individual can claim they are honest or 'tell it how it is' and yet still have enough tact and decorum not to feel obliged to go up to a person and tell them exactly what they've been thinking to their face, regardless of what it is. Isn't this how real life works? Does no one on here have an opinion on someone they know and yet not feel the need to have to tell them every minute detail, good and bad, for fear of not being seen to be true to their claim?

If she HAD said something to Lee and Casey's face people would be outraged that she was so blunt and 'rude'.

If she dares to voice an opinion on a reality tv show to other people (I mean how very dare she talk about that kind of thing when she's actually on the very show where people play up to the cameras/ have showmances all the time) then she's a 'bitch'. Anyone would think she can't win on here.

Damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. You've got to love DS at times.

I can't speak for everyone but I clearly stated that she's a hypocrite, because she says one thing and does another - says she's upfront and honest, yet bitched. Her little speech about being honest was a marker, if you will, for the bitchiness to come.

I think it is an example of Russell conjugation Patsey. Those pesky irregular English verbs such as;

I have re-evaluated
You have changed your mind
He/she has reneged on the deal

or

I am independent minded
You are a bit eccentric
He/she is a certifiable lunatic.

Id go a step further, as your approach seems 'black and white' to me.

IMO 'bitchiness' isn't about whether it's behind someone's back or not. There are many very healthy and positive reasons for discussing other people 'behind their backs'. We all have people we don't click with, for instance, and discussing those issues with others can helps us view differences from a different perspective and have a really positive outcome.

'Bitchiness' to me is where the intention is to belittle or undermine someone for malicious and negative reasons - to damage them, their reputation, etc. And that *is* what I saw Luisa doing. The kind of person who behaves in such a way and attempts to mask it as the positive attribute of 'honesty' isn't earning many brownie points with me - whether it's done to someone's face or not.

So though you are no doubt correct that some people will 'damn' her whatever she does, in this instance, viewers' opinions of her really isn't as 'black and white' as you've portrayed it.

She's a human like anyone else, but for me this is already blown way out of proportion judging by certain posts on her(not talking about yours by the way).
I'd wager most people claim in life they are honest yet I'm sure many if not all have told at the very least a white lie in their life. Are we therefore all hypocrites who should be condemned in equal measure, or just Luisa?


The irony of this post is that it's replying to my take on the black and white attitudes that are so prevalent across this board. I am all for extolling the virtues of not being so absolute on these kind of things.

I do take your points, but was merely trying to explain how I see her being taken to task for being a bitch by certain posters for having the audacity to dare speak to others about the possibility of a showmance (really no big deal on what day 2 or 3 is it, and when we've seen so many examples before)? and those who condemn her for saying she's upfront and 'tells it like it is whilst' berating the fact she didn't march straight up to Lee and Casey and have it out with them.

Are they not allowed to talk about other housemates to other housemates unless it's 100% fluffy, light and positive stuff?
If they think something negative are their only DS approved options to either go and have it out directly and immediately with those in question or take a vow of silence and keep any observations to themselves? It's hardly like she was even really slagging people off like some seem to be making out on here.

I mean come on now.

The level of DS 'outrage' at her for claiming to be upfront and honest and yet at the same time not be totally tactless by directly butting in to a situation that doesn't concern her between 2 people she hardly knows is laughable. To then see others claim she is a bitch or not allowed to talk about her potential observations because she says she 'tells it like it is' is equally so.

Just my opinion, as ever.

Anyway, now that I've stopped laughing, what has she inspired anyone to do? I mean positive things, not just telling your neighbours or work colleagues some straight-talking home truths about themselves.

Completely agree. She's another of these tedious "telling it like it is" types who sadly have never heard of the adage "if you've nothing nice to say, say nothing". Inspirational? Lol, she licks nipples on reality tv she's hardly Emily Pankhurst.

"if you've nothing nice to say, say nothing"

She is exactly like she was on The Apprentice - selfish, manipulative, arrogant and a total b*tch.

Hardly anything horrible in what I posted was there? Please point out where I resorted to name calling and expletives, there's a good chap

But she did lick Dappy's nipple! We all saw it! The point is, was that as inspirational as a bunch of women chaining themselves to railings, throwing themselves in front of racehorses or in Rosa Parks' case not moving her seat on a bus to give other people freedoms that they may never have enjoyed themselves?

But she herself set those paramaeters - she proclaimed to not give a toss what people thought of her, to be straight-talking and 'honest' blah blah - yet she was the one sitting there patently bitching about others behind their backs and for clearly negative intent.

That's what's laughable. If somebody wants to claim the 'I'm dead honest to the point of brazenly blunt and needlessly rude and I don't give a crap' badge, then they should deliver the goods. I won't like them any more for it, but they'll at least live up to the standard they set themselves.

It's the way these people make out like it's some kind of positive attribute when 1) it isn't and 2) it really isn't when you proclaim it but are in fact very bothered what others think of you and are essentially a liar to boot.

I'd have had far more respect for her if she'd bitched and said 'yeah Linda I am bitching but they're annoying the nips off me'.

I'm sick of these people who think being needlessly rude out others about of malice can be dressed up as 'honesty'. They're demeaning the value of something that was once a respectable quality.

I may be wrong but doesn't she inspire people to eat cake?
Now where did I hear that before?

Hahaha! Vive la Revolution!

It was only meant as a bit of fun honest!

It just amused me a little that you were saying if someone has nothing nice to say, they should say nothing in the very same post where you allude to her being one of those 'tedious types'.Tedious is a compliment now? You also 'LOL' at the thought that anyone could find her inspirational which again has a negative connotation. I should state for the record I do NOT find her inspirational personally!!
Oh and because she dared to lick a nipple her morals are perhaps not quite up there with those of an upstanding yet long dead suffragette whose nipple licking antics (or not as the case may be) haven't really been documented well enough to prove this for me either way!

I wasn't really taking you to task, just making a lighthearted observation on the slight hypocrisy of the post. No biggie.

(I should also state that this post is somewhat tongue in cheek before I get a barrage of irate posters rushing to give me a sound metaphorical beating).

I can categorically state that in my opinion, anyone licking Dappy's nipple should be seen by any rational human (both male and female I would hope) as less inspirational than any of the other examples you give.

Having said that, I'm not sure she's gone in there to start a revolution in nipple licking, and have some mass 'nipple lickers have rights too' movement that will sweep the nation with Luisa herself as their figurehead. I am not a mind reader however, so I may be wrong.

Of course she's honest and it's all about ME ME ME ME can you imagine if everyone was like that

If she liked this outspoken stuff why did she try and stop Evander from speaking?? It's just spoilt behaviour she's displaying.