A dog that is nervous or insure of children can be rehomed, a dog that has bitten cannot. Actually it could, by irresponsible people, but it SHOULDNT.

Yes. In my experience a dog that bites is likely to do it again and should be destroyed. It's a sad thing but as someone pointed out earlier there are thousands of perfectly well behaved and safe dogs that need homes. I'm a dog lover and will always promote the keeping of dogs - but it's a fact that some do go wrong and when they do they should be destroyed. They are not people, they are animals - and if you own one it's your responsibility to manage it correctly and not shy away from those repsonsibilities. That includes having it destroyed when it is necessary - and from what we've heard in this case it is necessary. There are several scenarios where the responsible thing to do is destroy the dog and it being aggressive is certainly one of them.

I still err on the side of not having enough information to say PTS instantly. You may all be right but I remember a dog years ago was PTS because it bit a 4 year old, on examination after it was destroyed a pencil was found had been rammed into the dogs ear and partly into it's brain. Bite ? I would have bitten too if someone did that to me.

Yes, I'm in agreement here. Of course, PTS is sometimes the only option and sadly we can't save all the dogs but there are cases where dogs can be dealt with a live happily in another (properly managed) home.

i remember one like that too mollie, and whilst its horrendously sad, that dog would never be the same after that, even if it was ok, it would have to had a fear of children.

I will agree however, re-reading the op, it maybe that we are presuming the bite was serious, not a near miss, and we don't know the circumstances. However the fact that the owners were ready to have it pts straight away suggests it was bad.

I also think the fact it went for the owner after the child as well is extremely off putting which makes me believe it is more than a problem with the child

Some dogs get to a point where they seem to panic and lash out at nearest sign of threat. My late Duncan if you tried to remove him physically from what he was wanting to attack would turn on you, as soon as he recognised he was attacking wrong person he would stop and you could almost see he was "sorry".

He had a dreadful start to his life so we managed his aggression and no one ever got hurt. It can be done.

This is something of a blanket judgement, after all we do not why the dog bit?
It may be ill? It may have an easily resolvable behavioural problem.

The rescue I was involved with often took in dogs with bite histories, some severe (leaving people in hospital, needing surgery) and often found suitable homes for them. In fact, sometimes just removing the dog from an unsuitable home and putting them with someone more experienced solved the issue.

To the OP, keep trying, there are hundreds of rescues out there. Try Facebook and Dogpages, you may not get anywhere, but it's always worth a try IMO.

Are you seriously suggesting they rehome a dog that has bitten a child via Facebook? What stupid advice.

There is no such thing as an easily resolvable behavioural problem when it comes to agression, and unfortunately it's irresponsible rescues that promote suchlike hinting then wipe thier hands when a dog bites the new family. If the dog was ill, then what happens next time it's ill? Do we excuse it's bite again because it wasn't feeling well? You can never cure a bite reaction, the dog bit because it's system of making whoever it was to away failed, they ignored the warning signs, so next time the dog will know that a bite did work, so escalate to that quicker, rehoming a biter is rehoming a ticking time bomb, I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

Dogs are powerful creatures and whilst I am willing to accept the odd nip maybe accidental (ie no broken skin, an inhibited bite) No rescue should rehome a dog that has shown serious aggression to other dogs or humans. As I've said before it is irresponsible, gives dogs and reuses a bad name and could be a fatal mistake. Look at the girl that's as killed a few months ago by the bull breed (American? Mastiff?). Who her mum had picked up from a rescue. A thorough assessment from them would have prevented that from happening,

Have worked in both types of rescue, there is no doubt in My mind that rehoming a known, serious biter is wrong. Plain and simple.

We still don't know if this was a serious biter.

The rescue I help will occasionally take biters, it every much depends on circumstances and provocation. And they stay in foster until we have an idea what they are really like.

We have had some that hated hats, bags or thin people one hated uniforms as long as we know we can make sure they go to the right home.

One of my biters hated back people we never knew if she came from a racist home or had been mistreated by a black person but what ever had happened she never forgot.

No we don't but unless you can guarantee that it will go to a home where it will never have contact with children I would not feel responsible saying rehome it. Once a dog has got to the stage where it bites it will always be a biter in general rather than a dog with warning signals so needs an experienced home which in general will not be guaranteed through a private sale when the owners want rid

Again that's why I suggested dogsey where they have several really good trainers and behaviourists who may be able to help.

In principle I can't say just from a post on a forum to PTS a dog, more needs to be known about why. We don't know if it was an attack or a nip even. Or of the dog growled first, if it did it was warning and if people didn't understand that I feel it harsh the dog should die.

Really I am the other way I would prefer the dog PTS over a future incident happening every time, as I say there are thousands of dogs out there and hundreds of dogs that have never bitten anyone being PTS. That may seem callous but the situation in this country with animals is harrowing to see the innocent dogs dying not being given a chance

You are offering outrageously stupid advice that might well lead to a child being killed by this dog.

OP - have the dog put down. Don't pass the problem on to someone else. It's your problem. Deal with it.

It isn't my dog. I was asked to spread the word. From what I gather it wasn't a bad injury but who knows what would have happened if dad wasn't so quick. Myself I appreciate between saying put down asap and trying to find a child free home. Who know if this was "rage" or the dog spooked by something the babe did. Either way no chance could be taken with a baby's life. But I feel so for someone having to part with a previously loving companion. My own pup is a sociable and loveable animal but far too excitable at times with the grand kids and I have her on the lead with them when she is hyper as even a playful nip or scratch hurts little ones who unintentionally wind up a dog. There is no clue with breed either as far as I can see as to tolerance of kids. My old cross GS/Chow was wonderful with my sons and out up with all sorts and was so protective. A local lady was telling me that she had 3 Staffies who were brilliant with children but she feels she has to be more watchful with her King Charles-

What they said ^

I'm no expert on dog behaviour or rehoming, but it's shocking to see so many people instantly condemning the animal to death. As has been said, all kinds of things could have made it act that way - perhaps fear, pain, self-defence, warnings of its discomfort being ignored by owner, etc.

Of course if it was aggressive and completely unprovoked then yes, that's a big problem. But we just don't know if that was the case.

The clue is 'baby' what exactly can a baby, even toddler do that justifies a dog attack? Severe or not? As I an others have said, one a dog has bitten the reoccurrence rate is staggering. Look at it this wy:

You walk the same way home every night, every night a guy comes and hits on you, every night you say no. That doesn't work, he tries again the next night. So the next night you say no and walk away, that doesn't work, the night after, say no, walk away, push him, still he comes back, after days, weeks nonths, you are terrified, he appears every night, so finally you run through your repertoire and it ends in you knocking him out. He's not there the next night. You've won. A few months later a new guy starts hassling you - what do you do? Go through he motions that haven't worked before or go for no, then if pushed, knock him out? You go for the action you know works. So do the dogs - they have been through 1001 'back off' signals that we've ignored, once it's got to a bite you've lost that dog.

That is an excellent way of summing it up.

Bazaar is right, once a dog has bitten, he will do so again and again if not stopped because he knows it works. If a child pulled his ear and biting made them let go, next time someone goes near his ear and he thinks the same thing will happen, he'll remember what made them stop last time, and do it again. That's why once a dog bites you can never trust them again.

Perhaps. Yes, your explanation does make sense, thanks CollieWobbles. Again I'm no expert on dog behaviour, more used to working with horses which are quite a different set of beasties.

I still find it quite sad and harsh that the animal must be put to death, just for one incident whose circumstances are still hazy. But yes, if it's definitely dangerous and there's no chance of safeguarding anyone from the dog reacting again, then of course... Just a sad situation all round!

(I suppose the question that's nagging me is: can't the dog possibly be trusted or "trained" not to expect or repeat that exact situation again? The pulled ear, for example. Horses are generally forgiven for accidents, treated more leniently; they can sometimes be calmed and "trained" out of bad habits and anxieties - see desensitised police horses for an extreme example. I've not personally known of a horse being put down after just one injury-incident; they're more easily spooked and unpredictable, and slow to learn patterns and reactions, so repeat behaviour isn't automatically assumed. Dogs may be very different though.)

Your not necessarily wrong, for example a lead reactive dog (one that only shows aggression to other dogs on lead) can be helped to cope with something like 'bat'- but they can never be trusted on lead, and as an owner you need to be finely tuned into thier body language and on alert for signals even moment of the walk. However that is a specific trigger that has a build up (I'd we see the dog, we glare at the dog, we growl, we launch) and is related to the other dogs reaction. However a dog bite within the home is far more difficult - using your ear example, how do you know if the dog associates his ear with the pain or the child - is he afraid of the one child in particular, or all children, what about adults, is it just the one ear, both ears? Then you find that it could be the shirt the child was wearing at the time that becomes a fearful object, or the child's voice rtc etc. what we would presume is the object that triggers the behaviour is more than likely not. You can't work with that, you can be watching the dog every second of every day incase he is triggered, not only is that impossible but it's no life for you, or more importantly the dog- living in a constant star of fear and stress will escalate the issues the dog is already feeling.

So yes, in short if there is a specific, easily identifiable trigger (leash, someone knocking etc) then it can be worked with, even so - it takes a long time and a good bond, rescues do use bat but the success is shally only to get the dog to a point where hey can cope, it's a long term process the owner needs to continue, and let's face it how many people want to go into a rescue and specifically choose one that needs so much work? (Some do but not all).

I think some dogs can be scared of babies crying something as simple as that. And again do we know if the god growled first. A growl is a warning to allow the dog to back off.

What was a dog doing near a baby anyway ? when we have had babies and dogs they were separate until we knew how the dogs would react and then so closely supervised nothing could go wrong. Even now youngest is 4 years old she is not unsupervised around my dogs and they all adore each other.

All I want is either further information or the dog to be properly examined. It could be ill.

We really know far too little to say die.

I take your point, and my bias against aggressive Cockers is a matter of record on this forum because of my childhood. But, even if the dog is ill - it attacked a baby.

I was super zealous about not leaving Murphy and Youngest son alone together when he was a baby. But even I got caught out once - I was distracted on the telephone shortly after Child started to crawl. I heard a god almighty yelp and a 'grumble' growl from Murphy and crying from Child. I rushed to the kitchen (I know, I know) to find Child in Murphy's bed. It seems Child had cause some major pain to Murphy - I suspect Child trod on his 'boy parts' - but even so, Murphy hadn't bitten. He trod on Child (there were scratch marks) when getting away but he didn't bite.

That is how a dog should react to a baby. Warn, try to get away, whining & crying to get the owner to help - even endure (though they should never be in that position). Some people might even tolerate an air snap. Teeth on skin 'in anger' is bad enough - even a nip - but an 'attack' followed by a redirected attack at the father? That isn't normal. Yes there are extreme cases like the one you mention, but how likely is that? But, OK. Get a vet check before PTS. But if the dog is ill, what happens next time he's ill and the owners don't realize?

And if it is Rage - Our Cocker badly bit my great grandmother just for touching him under the table - she needed hospital treatment. Bit a child (no broken skin) for no discernible reason. Went for me because he was fed up with the game we were playing (I had to punch him to stop him - he was going for my face). He was also food possessive - we thought he'd killed the cat for stealing from his bowl but he actually managed bite inhibition there. He actually liked the cat. But it highlighted the difference between 'provoked' behaviour (food) and the 'Rage'

There were other incidents and they were generally quite far apart - we actually kept that dog for six or seven years - and my parents did try everything - castration, vet trips, bloody Barbara Woodhouse 'tips' Until he took apart my sister's hand. A ferocious, sustained attack. He had to be dragged off. And then, as with every other time, he is all chilled and lovely and the sweetest dog you would even meet. No appeasement gestures that a 'normal' dog would give after behaviour that got him physically manhandled. Just happy as Larry - like nothing happened.

Even if there is a chance it is Rage Syndrome (Or Mad Cockers Disease as it used to be called when it was just Cockers) - and there is no diagnostic test, just observation of the behaviour - he is a ticking time bomb.

How do you assess that risk? How do you mitigate for it? If it was me I would - very sadly as they are still fantastic, loving dogs when they aren't trying to kill you - have it PTS.

I think we have to agree to differ, I admit I have no experience of spaniels most of mine have been terriers who do have a rep for being feisty so my experience has been managing situations so everyone was safe.

But I still can't get my head around not having enough information about this dog before we condemn it to die. I am not shy of PTS in many cases but I have to be sure in my own mind it's right and I am just not sure we know enough.

Horses aren't pets they are livestock and they are not given free roaming to do as they wish which is a big difference, yes a dog may go to a different home and it may never happen again....However do you take the chance given this dogs history (and knowing that most people are stupid and think things happen to other people and are known to not supervise children and animals properly) that it will not bite, maim or kill a child in the future.

Its a sad state of affairs to be true but there are thousands of dogs in the country close to a hundred probably being PTS today as they are not wanted and have not shown an ounce of aggression I would rather save one of them myself

Bazaar has done a good job of explaining why, but there's also another reason why it doesn't work. Most people would naturally be wary and nervous being near a dog they knew had bitten, the dog would be able to sense and read their fear like a book, and it would either tell them that they had power over people or make the dog nervous, which could easily cause it to attack again. Neither of these are something you'd want in a dog that bites, both are equally dangerous in different ways. The dog that realises biting makes people afraid of it could easily decide to bite to get what it wants, just like a dog that knows jumping on the sofa and growling makes people leave it there - thus growling/ biting becomes rewarding. On the other hand, being nervous around a dog can actually make it worse, as it thinks there is something to be afraid of, and can turn to biting out of fear. And if you know the dog has attacked/ bit already, you naturally won't want to go near it to see if you can train it otherwise!

And you cannot fool a dog, no matter how much you say ' good doggie' to it, if your actually nervous or afraid as you stand there saying it, you may as well be saying nothing as the dog will know, it will scent and sense it. That's why if someone in the house is afraid of the dog, it's always them the dog finds most interesting! I was bitten by a dog from along the road, I was stood talking to someone over a wall, the dog literally walked past and sank its teeth into me. Now, I adore dogs, and had never been afraid of them, but after that, I was petrified of this particular one. Despite all the years I'd spent around dogs, and knowing not to show fear, I couldn't help it, I was scared of this dog and nothing would hide it. And the dog knew, because as soon as it saw me it growled and moved towards me, and not until I heard it had died did I relax walking along the lane.

No we don't know the full details on this spaniel, but if it has actually attacked/ bitten, I would say hard as it is, it should be put to sleep painlessly. Because living in fear of a dog is not good for owner or dog, and its not fun.