I can only give you my experiences and yes some can be trained and managed not to bite again in the cases I have had, it takes time and the owners need to be informed of all the circumstances.

One of ours a Manchester terrier never displayed any aggression until she was 4 when we had our first bonfire, she went mad and tried to bite my husband to get into the house away from it, we made enquiries and found we had one of the 4 dogs who had been as pups almost burned to death by thugs who tied them up and set fire to the shed they were in.

We adjusted our behaviour and never confronted her with fire again and she was lovely.

Our others was as I said terribly racist we never got to the bottom of that but we always shut her away when any of the black relatives came round and took great care on the streets not to allow her to bite anyone.

We managed to retrain one corgi who was quite simply used to having her growls ignored, we took notice of them and encouraged her to be vocal if she was uncomfortable and her biting stopped because we listened to her.

I didnt know that.

But the key is if you know you don't touch their ears. That stops the biting instantly.

My two now are lovely girls really friendly and never even growl at people or other dogs, but I would be a true idiot not to realise that could change and to make sure they are supervised around strangers and especially around children.

Any dog can bite at least when I know what the triggers are I can manage that behaviour.

Yep, know what your saying Molliepops. Am just surprised that once a dog has bitten it sounds like it will have a tendency to do it again and again. I have been nipped by a few dogs but I think thats because I just wound them up the wrong way.

But that is the big difference - though I admit I am making some assumptions based on the OP.

If you know the triggers and they are manageable, then yes you can work through them. Murphy had a bad experience at the vets clipping his nails so he was awful if you tried to touch his feet. He didn't bite but he would grumble, thrash and generally be awful. Biting may have happened if pushed - don't know as I never pushed it. Instead I went through a program of desensitization. He can still be a bit funny trimming his dew claws but generally were OK as I will back off if he starts to pull away.

In this case it sounds from the OP - though yes, the detail is scant - that it was a sustained attack - 'went for' - with no obvious trigger - that was then redirected to the adult. Which - while admitting my bias - sounds like it could be rage syndrome. And even if it isn't, it may be impossible to work out the trigger, let alone manage it.

And it is the seeming lack of trigger and the sustained nature of the attack which concerns me. If the dog had snapped/nipped and backed off (and not a Cocker) I may be agreeing with you.

The thing with that though, is that managing a problem doesn't cure it. If your dog pulls you can put a head collar or harness on it and suddenly he doesn't pull. The second you take the head collar off he will pull again, because it's just a convenient quick fix for the owner and doesn't teach the dog anything . He only stops pulling because he can't, not because he knows not to. All he learns is 'when this is on me I can't pull' not ' I must not drag my owner up the road'. However with this, the worst that will happen is you fall flat on your face when you take your eye off him one time. The worst that can happen if you apply the same thinking to a biting dog your managing, is the dog attacks/bites or rips into someone when you accidentaly let your guard down. It only takes a second for a dog to turn so you could never relax with it. And that sort of stress and anxiety is not good or fair to the owner or the dog. Managing a biting dog is not a good idea, you'll not train him not to bite your simply controlling him so he can't, and all it takes is for you to slip up once for a few seconds.


That's the difference though, IF you know you don't touch their ears. What if a postman, or some random person out and about goes to pet their ears (most dog like their ears fussed and affectionately pulled a bit) and because they don't know not to, the dog goes for them? Or a visitor you don't get a chance to forewarn? Because he doesn't know this person isn't going to pull his ears sharply like the kid did either, he just connects person by my ears = hurt = I'll do what worked last time that made them stop = bite.

That's just part of managing it, we never had a biter who bit because we were vigilant I can't imagine we are only people who could manage that.

Where in the OP does it say a sustained attack ? I it went for the child and then the adult when he tried to intervene. We don't even know if skin was broken or the dog made contact ??

No but for the one of you there are a couple of hundred who cant or wont and IMO it is not worth the risk when there are dogs out there being PTS with better temperaments

Millie - I do understand what you are saying and I know it's more difficult for you because you've got dogs who you've managed difficulties with scuds fully, however - we are more tolerant of our own dogs my terrier grumbles and grizzles in his crate, he's super food protective (he's a terrier!) and I know he won't bite me, I can, and do take food from him if I need to (I don't do it to make a point but I will take a bone away if it's causing too much stress for him and the other dog etc) but, I'd not let me children do so. I can manage that in my home, but to re home him, knowing he has these issues would be unfair of me- and that's the difference here, to re home a dog that has bitten a child (a baby by all accounts) and then been in the zone enough to also go for the dad does fall into the realms of irresponsible. Whilst that dog may get a home wih someone like you, he is more likely to get a home with someone that says the right things, and does them for a few months, then relaxes as the dog hasn't shown any signs of aggression and -bang. Your kind of home is extremely rare, and you are probably only like that because you have the patience and experience to be, most people are not capable of doing so.

As for the sustained attack, that is an attack that consists of more than one attempt in quick succession- going for the baby then the dad is IMO a sustained attack. Let's home he didn't do any damage, to either person involved, but IMO and the opinion of most rescues I'd imagine, it's the intent behind the attack tang would be the concern, and a sustained attack is pretty much a death sentence.

But if a dog is triggered by someone touching their ears - that is not a 'normal' dog, and no-one should put up with that, or accept that as normality, surely?

And how fair on the dog would it be to have an entire life where they couldn't go near strangers, or be trusted in everyday situations where 98% of other dogs would be trusted? Not everyone lives secluded from the entire world, either - even if you have no kids, no friends with kids, no family with kids - what about when the dog is out and about?

What if this dog could be rehomed with these patient, ideal people who can cope with it and never go anywhere where there are kids, anyway - and then, gods forbid, something happened to those owners or their lives changed so they could no longer keep the dog? Who could control where the dog might then be rehomed? Or whether subsequent owners would also have the perect conditions for the ear-phobic dog?

Too many variables and what ifs. And the world is full of lovely, affectionate, gentle dogs who are being PTS because they can't be rehomed.

I can't simply write off a dog because they had an ear infection and made them wary of people touching their ears. We would be killing dogs left right and centre if we adopted that policy.

I actually agree with you there - where there is an identifiable and manageable trigger there can be behavioural work done to desensitise the dog to that trigger coupled with management AND the bite was a snap rather than an attack. However, would I pass on that dog even after desensitisation? I'm not sure.

In this case though I read into the words 'went for' that it was a determined attack rather than a snap, and than it redirected to the intervening adult which I would call sustained. And of course - it was a baby. A dog the size of an adult Cocker could get away from a small child without much effort and can make a lot of fuss before resorting to biting. That this dog didn't is very worrying, even disregarding the possibility of Rage Syndrome.

I keep coming back to we have too little to go on though, we don't know what triggered the "going for" or what the "going for" entailed. It could have been a sore ear and a snap or it could have been a full on attack. We just don't know.

No we don't, but we are talking about rehoming a dog that has gone for a child, whether it bit or not, whether there was a reason or not, he went for a child. Rehoming him is unacceptable- look at the other thread where you can see a classic example of an everyday owner who thinks eh an cope with thier dog and can't, imagine if she had a dog with a fear of children? It would be a disaster waiting to happen.

If the owners wanted to keep the dog, I'd say it was worth trying to work with (presuming it was into a bite but an air snap) but rehoming is a different issue and I will never agree that rehoming a dog that has attempted to bite a child, a baby, is right.

Which was why I suggested a site with people who have experience and behaviourists and trainers who may be able to help. It may come down to PTS being the best answer I just don't feel without more info comfortable condemning a dog to death.

Which is fair enough, and I'm sure the spaniel is grateful to have someone fight for his side, at least until all the information is divulged! Sadly having seen the effects when we do let these types of dogs go to new homes, with me it is generally very black and white, I can understand why you'd be less so clear, and do respect your opinions.

I admit, I have only skimmed this very interesting thread. But have owned dogs and cats for over 50 years. My gut feeling is, dogs and babies are not a good combination. Because almost all the time, the answer to dog aggression comes from the owners, not the dog. The training is up to us....not them.

I never had a dog when I had a baby or toddler in the house. Only when they were old enough to learn to respect the dog and how to join in with their training - to know when they needed to be left alone and when they were ok to be petted and played with.

The pay off is that I have two kids who are marvellous pet owners and know how to train and love them.
Out of interest - the only time I have ever known any of my friends to have to put an animal down was a horse - who constantly threw their rider and tried to trample them, and according to the vet - he had a brain tumour who made him utterly unreliable.

I don't think anyone is advocating putting to sleep dogs with ear infections. A good dog owner would know if the dog had an infection and presumably take them to the vet's, get antiobiotics - problem sorted. It was be a pretty rubbish owner who didn't notice an ear infection, in the first place.

A dog who would be 'triggered' by anything (not just that example of ears being touched), is a dog that is too dangerous to keep. If the animal had an underlying medical condition, you would hope it had been addressed long before it got so acute and even then, if the dog didn't have bite inhibition, in any circumstance, it is not bombproof enough to be around children.

Problem temporarily solved. Dog on 2 week trial in adult on,y home. If it doesn't work he will sadly go to the vets.