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Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Thread (Part 12)
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Andy-B
17-08-2015
If you look at the passing stats, I think it's pretty clear Chadli through the middle/Eriksen out wide didn't work, especially for Chadli. Not even sure why Poch went that route:

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone...wrapper-anchor
soulboy77
17-08-2015
Originally Posted by shelleyj89:
“I see nothing has changed. I see the same players are getting criticised, and the same ones are escaping criticism.

On the mention of the defence, I had no issue with a Fazio and Jan pairing last season. We were solid defensively and had a great win record with them. Fazio has been made the scapegoat when he was never the problem. I'm yet to see anything from Alderweireld that makes me see why he is rated so highly. He's another Jan at the moment, who flatters to deceive. And I absolutely hate this new wide CB tactic we're employing....”

I am so glad we haven't sold Fazio. We are going to need him sooner or later if Alderweirald doesn't shape up. Fazio and Wimmer could actually turn out to be our best CB pairing, so it will be interssting to see them play together in one of the cup competitions.
JasonWatkins
17-08-2015
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“If you do manage to offload Lamela maybe we could interest you in Juan Cuadrado as a replacement? [/wishful thinking]”

Ok, I think we can do business if we can also send you a nice decorative piece of furniture to hang your hat on as well. He'll only cost £100k a week!

Originally Posted by soulboy77:
“I am so glad we haven't sold Fazio. We are going to need him sooner or later if Alderweirald doesn't shape up. Fazio and Wimmer could actually turn out to be our best CB pairing, so it will be interssting to see them play together in one of the cup competitions.”

If Dier is going to be converted in to a DM full time then we'll need Fazio to stay anyway because he'll be the 4th CB. But him and Wimmer sounds good though - I suspect we'll likely see that when the EL starts up.
Pee
18-08-2015
we could have Thiago Silva and Mats Hummels as our CB pairing, and we'd still be finding fault with individuals when the problem lies with the system and (lack of) organisation. we don't protect our back-four at all. Dier has done ok so far in defensive midfield, but we can't fool ourselves into thinking he's a viable long-term option.
JasonWatkins
18-08-2015
well i'm reading this morning that fazio to west brom for £5m is a "formality". if this is true it obviously seems to be paving the way for Berahino to join us.

It would leave us rotating 3 CB's if Dier continues to play at DM I suppose.
carefree_blue
18-08-2015
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“Ok, I think we can do business if we can also send you a nice decorative piece of furniture to hang your hat on as well. He'll only cost £100k a week!”

Heh! You'll be wanting another striker then. In that case maybe we can arrange for Falcao's loan to be transferred over to you for the aeason.
janetcomelately
18-08-2015
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“well i'm reading this morning that fazio to west brom for £5m is a "formality". if this is true it obviously seems to be paving the way for Berahino to join us.

It would leave us rotating 3 CB's if Dier continues to play at DM I suppose.”

Well we are in dire need of someone else up front so let's hope if it is Berahino, things get signed and sealed very quickly so we can get him playing and improve our lot.
shelleyj89
18-08-2015
Comment about keeping Fazio, cue rumours he's leaving. Always the way.

I've not seen much of Wimmer, so I can't comment on what kind of CB he is, but I am concerned that if Fazio does go, we're leaving ourselves with only ball playing CBs. I've always said the best CB pairings are made of one who sits a bit deeper and gets stuck in, and one who sits a bit further forward. You get the best of both worlds, and it's why Ledley and Daws worked, why Jan and Daws worked, and why Fazio and Daws worked.

I do feel sorry for Fazio. Possibly selling him after a season in which we made him play a high line and made him the scapegoat for any defensive problems when he was never the problem. Yet if you look at the games, we had a great record with him, and he was forming a very good, solid partnership with Jan. That pairing still enabled the fullbacks to get forward, and the rest of the team to press, so I'm baffled as to why we have not stuck with that, and yet again changed things seemingly not for the better (again!).

If we're sticking with Jan and Toby playing with this ridiculously wide CB tactic, don't expect a better defensive record any time soon.

Also, if we're continuing with Dier as a DM, it seems odd that we seem happy to leave ourselves with only three CBs?
JasonWatkins
18-08-2015
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Heh! You'll be wanting another striker then. In that case maybe we can arrange for Falcao's loan to be transferred over to you for the aeason. ”

Sold!

Originally Posted by shelleyj89:
“Comment about keeping Fazio, cue rumours he's leaving. Always the way.”

It's been picked up by a few places - here's one at random. Obviously, as with most of these rumours, it's probably more than likely to be just idle speculation more than anything but with the reports of us being seriously in for berahino but unwilling to pay west brom's reported £25m fee, there could be some weight to it.

http://www.shoot.co.uk/west-brom-bid...ttenham-flop/?

As far as Dier as a DM goes, if his first two games are anything to go by, he would actually be a considerably better option than Bentaleb but I don't think it would necessarily preclude him from playing at CB again, especially in the league cup or europa league.
shelleyj89
18-08-2015
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“
It's been picked up by a few places - here's one at random. Obviously, as with most of these rumours, it's probably more than likely to be just idle speculation more than anything but with the reports of us being seriously in for berahino but unwilling to pay west brom's reported £25m fee, there could be some weight to it.

http://www.shoot.co.uk/west-brom-bid...ttenham-flop/?

As far as Dier as a DM goes, if his first two games are anything to go by, he would actually be a considerably better option than Bentaleb but I don't think it would necessarily preclude him from playing at CB again, especially in the league cup or europa league.”

"Tottenham flop" in the link. Does my head in. If people actually look at our results on the whole when he played, especially in a partnership with Jan, they'd see he was far from a flop. But it's easier to tag him as that than actually say he might not be so bad.

And I agree. Bentaleb hasn't started the season well at all. But I'd rather have enough cover for each specific area, rather than have one player covering across two. Because if he gets injured, we lose a CB and a DM in one swoop.
Pee
18-08-2015
Selling Fazio will be so in keeping with everything that's going on with us at the moment. Sell an experienced defender, leaving as backup a 22 year old who has never kicked a ball for us, and a 21 year old....who just happens to now be our first-choice DM. What could possibly go wrong?

*Cue one of Vertonghen and Alderweireld getting sent off in the next game, and the other one getting injured*

There's now not a single outfield position where we have adequate depth. This obsession with having the youngest squad ever is sheer lunacy.
shelleyj89
18-08-2015
Originally Posted by Pee:
“Selling Fazio will be so in keeping with everything that's going on with us at the moment. Sell an experienced defender, leaving as backup a 22 year old who has never kicked a ball for us, and a 21 year old....who just happens to now be our first-choice DM. What could possibly go wrong?

*Cue one of Vertonghen and Alderweireld getting sent off in the next game, and the other one getting injured*

There's now not a single outfield position where we have adequate depth. This obsession with having the youngest squad ever is sheer lunacy.”

I simply don't get it. We found a CB pairing that worked, that still enabled the full backs to get forward, and for the rest of the team to press like Pochettino likes. So we changed it, and leaked goals. We reverted back to that pairing, and stopped leaking goals. The logical thing would be to stick with that pairing and give it more time to gel and do even better than it already was doing. Apparently not.
Andy-B
18-08-2015
Having got around to looking at the goals again, no question Dier is at most fault for the pen.

Lost concentration, out of position, actually standing directly behind another Tottenham player instead nullifying the player who put the ball through to Joselu. Bad error.
Pee
18-08-2015
Alderweireld's view on things:

http://www.football365.com/tottenham...8/Alderweireld

Quote:
“The defender earned his transfer to White Hart Lane last season by consistently impressing while on loan at Southampton, where he often benefited from the presence of Morgan Schneiderlin and Victor Wanyama in front of him.

He admits he is still adapting to the different style of play at Spurs but knows he cannot afford to repeat mistakes while he does so.

"At Southampton, Victor Wanyama and Morgan Schneiderlin put good pressure on so [opponents] didn't have time to put the ball in the box; it makes it easier for defenders," he said.

"You have to play better because if you don't play football any more then they can put more pressure on you, get more guys in the box, and it's very difficult.

"Last season I didn't make one mistake. I want to prove myself here and so it feels bad for me to make a mistake in my first home game.

"I just wanted to catch the ball and if I stood behind him [Stoke's Joselu] he couldn't do anything. It was stupid of me. Maybe if I didn't give the penalty away it's different."”

soulboy77
18-08-2015
WBA have rejected our £15m bid for Berahino which confirms we are definitely in for him. Their valuation is £25m which you just know Levy is not going to pay anywhere near.
TheSloth
18-08-2015
Originally Posted by soulboy77:
“WBA have rejected our £15m bid for Berahino which confirms we are definitely in for him. Their valuation is £25m which you just know Levy is not going to pay anywhere near.”

There's always Charlie Austin?
The_Moth
19-08-2015
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“There's always Charlie Austin?”

I was thinking the same thing. Much more than the £15 to £18 million that has been rumoured for Berahino sounds like a a big gamble. We could probably get Austin for around £15 million or less.

Having watched Austin in his Swindon days I would say that he is what they call a "natural goalscorer". The only thing is that apparently Berahino can play as a wide attacker too and I don't think Austin could.
soulboy77
19-08-2015
We actually need two strikers still, so why not Austin and Berahino? I see N'Jie more of a replacement for Lennon. There is actually not a lot of choice left if we ae are looking at taking a player from an English club. I would at least snap Austin up at £15m right now as a backup striker just in case we don't land anyone else. It does make me wonder though about our inability to bring in a decent No. 9 from abroad.

There was an article in one of the free papers yesterday on how we always seem to go into a new season with an incomplete squad and end up making panic buys as the window closes.
JasonWatkins
19-08-2015
I know it was only a blog opinion piece but i was reading one last night that cast doubt on levy's claim that he would take a step back from transfer dealings and allow mitchell to oversee the whole operation.

it said that it was unlikely that mitchell would have sourced a player like n'jie while working with pochettino at southampton so it made you wonder if he really was being backed in the transfer market with the players he wanted.

again, only an opinion piece but certainly food for thought.
soulboy77
19-08-2015
With N'Jie's transfer, I read that they had to bring Baldini back in to negotiate with Lyon's Chairman as dealings with Levy had become fraught.
JasonWatkins
19-08-2015
Originally Posted by soulboy77:
“With N'Jie's transfer, I read that they had to bring Baldini back in to negotiate with Lyon's Chairman as dealings with Levy had become fraught.”

i read that as well actually. it was sold as baldini being brought in due to having a long standing relationship with the chairman, but considering the track record we have with levy and these dealings, i don't think i'd be massively shocked to find out it was more down to levy being a twa-t. again.
Pee
19-08-2015
I never get the sh*t that gets directed towards Levy over our transfer dealings. he's obviously not perfect and could do with getting some of these deals done quicker, but during his time here we've established a reputation around the world for a) getting top dollar for our players and b) not paying over the odds for others. say what you like about the man, but you can't really argue with that. that has been priceless for a club of our size. furthermore, there are several far bigger clubs like ours around Europe that don't manage a and/or b.

Aulas is every bit as notoriously difficult as Levy is supposed to be, and was still trying to generate an auction after N'jie had already completed his medical and was getting ready to be announced, and Levy is the one at fault here?

also, I'm not buying that opinion piece re transfers. I don't believe a credible argument can be made for the manager not being backed when he's been allowed to drastically reduce the size of the squad in the way that he has. Baldini and AVB are always being held accountable regardless for our Summer 2013 transfers dealings, for me these are on Mitchell and Pochettino. there's no manager in world football that gets all the players he wants and gets rid of all the ones he doesn't, everyone has to be able to play the hand they're dealt. there's no reason why ours should be any different.
shelleyj89
19-08-2015
Originally Posted by Pee:
“I never get the sh*t that gets directed towards Levy over our transfer dealings. he's obviously not perfect and could do with getting some of these deals done quicker, but during his time here we've established a reputation around the world for a) getting top dollar for our players and b) not paying over the odds for others. say what you like about the man, but you can't really argue with that. that has been priceless for a club of our size. furthermore, there are several far bigger clubs like ours around Europe that don't manage a and/or b.

Aulas is every bit as notoriously difficult as Levy is supposed to be, and was still trying to generate an auction after N'jie had already completed his medical and was getting ready to be announced, and Levy is the one at fault here?

also, I'm not buying that opinion piece re transfers. I don't believe a credible argument can be made for the manager not being backed when he's been allowed to drastically reduce the size of the squad in the way that he has. Baldini and AVB are always being held accountable regardless for our Summer 2013 transfers dealings, for me these are on Mitchell and Pochettino. there's no manager in world football that gets all the players he wants and gets rid of all the ones he doesn't, everyone has to be able to play the hand they're dealt. there's no reason why ours should be any different.”

Completely agree. Other clubs only say Levy is difficult to deal with, because they want to pay less for players than we consider them to be worth. Every club will try and get the most for a player they can. And, on the flip side, every club will try and pay as little for a player as they can. Levy is no different to any one else. I imagine it's a bit of jealousy perhaps that he is so good at that part of his job and their chairmen aren't?

And there's no way it would be Levy's decision to sell players after being here for such a short space of time, with most being sold at a loss. Those decision are clearly Pochettino's.
Andy-B
19-08-2015
The main man says: West Ham pull out of signing Hatstand from Tottenham. The photo says it all.
JasonWatkins
19-08-2015
Originally Posted by Andy-B:
“The main man says: West Ham pull out of signing Hatstand from Tottenham. The photo says it all.”

I've just read this as well. We really need to pay up his contract and release him on a free. It's the only way now because we're not going to get any kind of transfer fee for him in the final year of his deal and at his wages as well.

He's getting paid either way, so why not just get shot of him now ?.
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