DS Forums

 
 

Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-01-2014, 10:35
DS Forum Support

 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 12,563

I really enjoyed the episode. At first I was a bit distracted and it was a bit tricky to follow the story it's only on second viewing I was totally able to grasp the whole plot, on the third viewing I'm looking for clues, that's why I like sherlock there is no other programme that I would want to watch three times
I loved the humour and sherlock eccentricity I loved the court room in sherlocks head, I thought drunk sherlock was brilliant , I know there was a lot of coincidences and a little bit unbelievable murder attempt but all in all it's fiction and I thought it was clever and came together well
Continuation of: Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 2)
DS Forum Support is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 08-01-2014, 10:43
Eater Sundae
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
In detective fiction, I’m familiar with being given a load of potential clues and red herrings. Actual events which can be misinterpreted, people using phrases which can be interpreted in different ways or people’s expression etc can provide these clues. Then there are events which are recorded and may or may not be significant. We then have an opportunity to try and deduce the answer for ourselves. Then, at the end, when all is explained, we can see how the relevant clues fit together to prove how the events transpired. In the best detective fiction of this type, the pieces of the jigsaw fit together snugly with no other sensible solution.

On here, several people have talked more about symbolism – associated camera angles, apparently obscure props in the background etc. It is not something I tend to notice. Has such symbolism, as opposed to more tangible and what I would call “proper” clues, been used in any of the previous series of Sherlock. I don’t remember any, off the top of my head. Can anyone think of any? Is it actually a method already being used by the writers to foretell the future of the story?
Eater Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 10:57
Eater Sundae
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
I agree with moleymo about the scenes inside Sherlock's head - as a series of conversations with people in a sort of courtroom or debating chamber. Internal dialogue is difficult. Much detective fiction gets round this by adding a side-kick to do explain it to, but as its purpose is to inform the viewer/reader, it often seems forced, and is better suited to two near equals developing a solution but it still doesn't really get into the thought process. You see little saints and sinners on the shoulder for basic decisions, but this method allowed a lot more, as well as the added comedy of a naked Irene Adler jumping into his thoughts. I thought this was an inventive and effective tool.
Eater Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 10:59
fiveinabed
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 498
Yes. I agree. Why was it so important for him to leave the letter on display for them not too miss.
It has to be the piece of music he was supposed to be composing at the beginning of the programme when Mrs Hudson walks into his room with a cup of tea, he tells Mrs Hudson he was composing yet as far as I can see he is playing a recording and transcribing the music notation. maybe he did write the music but I am not taking that for granted. could be a red Herring but why 2 scenes concerning the music notation. mystery is if it is a clue . name of the a piece of music etc. why would this mean anything to someone who can't play a musical instrument. as you say he may have just scribbled a quick message on the back of something he knew they would know is important, have to wait till Sunday and they will probably not even mention it.lol
Sherlock composed the music and practised the dance-steps.... maybe the steps could have been a code, like in ACD's Andventure Of The Dancing Men. And maybe that's why the dance scene ran for quite a long time, to give us the chance to notate the clue by hearing the whole tune - a bit like how the theme music to Inspector Morse was in Morse Code.
And by putting the manuscript into the envelope he's leaving the clue for someone to find. No idea if any of that is true, it's just a thought, and a way of the writers including another ACD reference in the plot.
fiveinabed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:06
Benry_Gale
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,180
I think this series has been more of one story, it just doesn't seem it yet. After episode 3 it'll all tie in with Magnussen. I think the theme of 'rehearsal' is a big one, and things in the previous episodes will be things Magnussen was rehearsing for his final game. John in danger, easily diffused bombing, etc. It will all tie in.

We've also not found out how Sherlock faked his death yet, and I have a feeling the final scene of this season will be John going 'oh go on then, how did you do it?' Leading in to the big Canopy revelation, easily the most plausible theory.
Benry_Gale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:34
TRIPS
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,584
Sherlock composed the music and practised the dance-steps.... maybe the steps could have been a code, like in ACD's Andventure Of The Dancing Men. And maybe that's why the dance scene ran for quite a long time, to give us the chance to notate the clue by hearing the whole tune - a bit like how the theme music to Inspector Morse was in Morse Code.
And by putting the manuscript into the envelope he's leaving the clue for someone to find. No idea if any of that is true, it's just a thought, and a way of the writers including another ACD reference in the plot.
Yes, the music or the Waltz dance itself looks like a warning. still not taking it for granted Sherlock wrote this piece of music, only other possible clue is the timing of the music.
Sherlcok has gave Watson Waltz dance lessons as well, he even asks them both to go and dance a Waltz just before leaving. wonder why the Waltz is mentioned so many times if it is irrelevant.
TRIPS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:40
moleymo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,715
I think this series has been more of one story, it just doesn't seem it yet. After episode 3 it'll all tie in with Magnussen. I think the theme of 'rehearsal' is a big one, and things in the previous episodes will be things Magnussen was rehearsing for his final game. John in danger, easily diffused bombing, etc. It will all tie in.

We've also not found out how Sherlock faked his death yet, and I have a feeling the final scene of this season will be John going 'oh go on then, how did you do it?' Leading in to the big Canopy revelation, easily the most plausible theory.
But I think the the version sherlock gave Anderson was the most plausible theory, I think they jokingly didn't say it was the absolute truth because they didn't want internet detectives picking holes in it because if they had given that as the real truth many fans of the show had guessed this theory already but it does seem the most likely, have to admit I thought rubbish truck filled with soft stuff but that only happens in cartoons and James Bond movies, realistically you would need a proper stunt guy mattress but then the whole why fake his death in front of John but not the sniper guy seems a bit unbelievable
I think they faked his death had an idea of how it was to work out but then saw that people wouldn't believe he jumped off a building that tall into a waiting truck without injury so changed the story after reading people's comments on the internet, they even mentioned the reason they didn't use the van in the show
moleymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:45
Eater Sundae
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
I think this series has been more of one story, it just doesn't seem it yet. After episode 3 it'll all tie in with Magnussen. I think the theme of 'rehearsal' is a big one, and things in the previous episodes will be things Magnussen was rehearsing for his final game. John in danger, easily diffused bombing, etc. It will all tie in.

We've also not found out how Sherlock faked his death yet, and I have a feeling the final scene of this season will be John going 'oh go on then, how did you do it?' Leading in to the big Canopy revelation, easily the most plausible theory.
I expect you are right regarding it all linking together. I found the idea that a lone disgruntled brother would be able to find and contact the 5 women who all worked for the major (? Re rank) who is hiding for his own safety, a bit far fetched - so tend to think it could be part of a bigger picture. Of course, in this type (if there is a type) of detective fiction, such disgruntled brothers are able to find people, so it still might be a stand alone story.

But on balance, I think it is all connected – including the train bomb and possibly even the bank robberies at the beginning.

I also expect that the fall from series 2 will be explained, although I'm going with Sherlock into the laundry wagon and away, and the dead look alike dropped onto the pavement, to be accepted as real by a disorientated Watson


My main conclusion, and the only thing I’m absolutely certain about is that...












...I’ll be watching it on Sunday, to find out...





...and then be left with a two year wait following yet another cliff-hanger (You XXXXXXXX, Gatiss and Moffat.
Eater Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:52
slouchingthatch
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,345
I expect you are right regarding it all linking together. I found the idea that a lone disgruntled brother would be able to find and contact the 5 women who all worked for the major (? Re rank) who is hiding for his own safety, a bit far fetched - so tend to think it could be part of a bigger picture. Of course, in this type (if there is a type) of detective fiction, such disgruntled brothers are able to find people, so it still might be a stand alone story.

But on balance, I think it is all connected – including the train bomb and possibly even the bank robberies at the beginning.

I also expect that the fall from series 2 will be explained, although I'm going with Sherlock into the laundry wagon and away, and the dead look alike dropped onto the pavement, to be accepted as real by a disorientated Watson


My main conclusion, and the only thing I’m absolutely certain about is that...












...I’ll be watching it on Sunday, to find out...





...and then be left with a two year wait following yet another cliff-hanger (You XXXXXXXX, Gatiss and Moffat.
I'm a little confused as to why so many people are expecting this. For me, what was said in episode 1 put a lid on this - it's not important how Sherlock survived, only the fact that he did and the impact his absence had on his relationship with John.

Revisiting the fall achieves little more than a sense of closure for those fans who want it (personally, I've moved on and am satisfied with the way it was told).

Also - and this for me is the biggest reason of all for not resolving the fall - to do so would be a backward step which will detract from the plot and the ending of the final episode.
slouchingthatch is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:00
moleymo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,715
I'm a little confused as to why so many people are expecting this. For me, what was said in episode 1 put a lid on this - it's not important how Sherlock survived, only the fact that he did and the impact his absence had on his relationship with John.

Revisiting the fall achieves little more than a sense of closure for those fans who want it (personally, I've moved on and am satisfied with the way it was told).

Also - and this for me is the biggest reason of all for not resolving the fall - to do so would be a backward step which will detract from the plot and the ending of the final episode.
I agree I think the version he gave Anderson is all we will get and it was an explanation, fans might not like it but it's probably the only credible explanation for it, I thought it was clever in the respect they answered why the little girl screamed when she saw sherlock and the fact that's how sherlock knew he would have a double in the morgue
moleymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:00
fiveinabed
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 498
I'm a little confused as to why so many people are expecting this. For me, what was said in episode 1 put a lid on this - it's not important how Sherlock survived, only the fact that he did and the impact his absence had on his relationship with John.

Revisiting the fall achieves little more than a sense of closure for those fans who want it (personally, I've moved on and am satisfied with the way it was told).

Also - and this for me is the biggest reason of all for not resolving the fall - to do so would be a backward step which will detract from the plot and the ending of the final episode.

Hmmm, well YOU've seen Episode 3, so unless you're very good at playing poker, I'd guess that we don't get to hear how it was done.
fiveinabed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:01
moleymo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,715
Hmmm, well YOU've seen Episode 3, so unless you're very good at playing poker, I'd guess that we don't get to hear how it was done.
But we have been given an explanation
moleymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:04
FrankieFixer
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
I'm a little confused as to why so many people are expecting this. For me, what was said in episode 1 put a lid on this - it's not important how Sherlock survived, only the fact that he did and the impact his absence had on his relationship with John.

Revisiting the fall achieves little more than a sense of closure for those fans who want it (personally, I've moved on and am satisfied with the way it was told).

Also - and this for me is the biggest reason of all for not resolving the fall - to do so would be a backward step which will detract from the plot and the ending of the final episode.
I'd agree with this.
FrankieFixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:07
Big-Arn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bath
Posts: 1,036
Went back and looked at THAT shot of Mary last night. As well as the horns, I also noticed there's a clear Dark and Light side to her face - one side is in almost complete shadow. No DOP worth his salt will have lit her like that for 'no reason', so she's got a dark side.

She's also wearing a top that has thumbs UP and thumbs DOWN, another blatant clue that she's both good and bad in some way.

My prediction is that she will be used to put Holmes, Watson and her in a situation where Holmes has to save either her or Watson and he picks Watson.
Big-Arn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:08
Big-Arn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bath
Posts: 1,036
Hmmm, well YOU've seen Episode 3, so unless you're very good at playing poker, I'd guess that we don't get to hear how it was done.
We've seen and heard all we're going to on that one. The story has moved on.
Big-Arn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:08
Kapellmeister
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Taedet animam meam vitae
Posts: 40,368
Went back and looked at THAT shot of Mary last night. As well as the horns, I also noticed there's a clear Dark and Light side to her face - one side is in almost complete shadow. No DOP worth his salt will have lit her like that for 'no reason', so she's got a dark side.

She's also wearing a top that has thumbs UP and thumbs DOWN, another blatant clue that she's both good and bad in some way.

My prediction is that she will be used to put Holmes, Watson and her in a situation where Holmes has to save either her or Watson and he picks Watson.
But that would just be a rip-off of Batman's dilemma in 'The Dark Knight'.
Kapellmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:08
fiveinabed
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 498
But we have been given an explanation
We've been given three, I think, but I was meaning a definitive once-and-for-all non-ambiguous howdunnit.
fiveinabed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:12
moleymo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,715
We've been given three, I think, but I was meaning a definitive once-and-for-all non-ambiguous howdunnit.
Well the only feasible one was the one sherlock told
I do think they probably moved away from their original plan though with everyone on the internet laughing at the idea of sherlock jumping from that height and landing in the laundry van which I suspect was their original plan
moleymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:12
saralund
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,689
Can anyone musical confirm that what Sherlock played really was a waltz? Without a 1-2-3 beat in evidence, I couldn't tell. I thought the dancing looked a bit awkward.
saralund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:15
Big-Arn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bath
Posts: 1,036
We've been given three, I think, but I was meaning a definitive once-and-for-all non-ambiguous howdunnit.
That was the third one.

We're not going to be told whether or not the third version is the real version, or which bits were an exaggeration or not quite true. It's part of the mystery of the show - was Sherlock telling the truth? And if not, then what IS the truth?

We'll never know. Time to just move on and appreciate the ambiguity as part of the charm of the show.
Big-Arn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:15
Kapellmeister
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Taedet animam meam vitae
Posts: 40,368
People who are expecting Moffat to resolve elements of the plot to their liking clearly haven't watched many of his efforts for 'Doctor Who'! Moffat doesn't do answers/resolutions.
Kapellmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:16
moleymo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,715
Can anyone musical confirm that what Sherlock played really was a waltz? Without a 1-2-3 beat in evidence, I couldn't tell. I thought the dancing looked a bit awkward.
I thought the dance lasted a long time for a tv programme , I was wondering if we should have been noticing things going on behind the dancing pair but I can't see anything suspicious
moleymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:16
Big-Arn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bath
Posts: 1,036
Well the only feasible one was the one sherlock told
I do think they probably moved away from their original plan though with everyone on the internet laughing at the idea of sherlock jumping from that height and landing in the laundry van which I suspect was their original plan
Oh you do, eh? Is that so that you can point out how they must have quickly changed tack after realising the internet was laughing at them>

How convenient!
Big-Arn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:17
Big-Arn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bath
Posts: 1,036
But that would just be a rip-off of Batman's dilemma in 'The Dark Knight'.
Which itself is a ripoff of every other times its been used in stories before that tediously overlong film recycled it.
Big-Arn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:19
fiveinabed
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 498
Well the only feasible one was the one sherlock told
I do think they probably moved away from their original plan though with everyone on the internet laughing at the idea of sherlock jumping from that height and landing in the laundry van which I suspect was their original plan
Very likely, but as other people have said, it probably doesn't matter that much as it's not crucial to the story any more. There's still that niggly doubt though, from when SM said in an interview that everyone had missed an obvious and vital clue which was paramount to the howdunnit.
fiveinabed is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:44.