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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 01-01-2017, 22:57
anyonefortennis
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Can I just say that predicting that people will complain about an episode doesn't instantly delegitimize their particular criticisms.

I could equally say at the start of a thread "I bet people will predictably post about how wonderful they think the episode is". By saying that it doesn't make anyone's praise any less valid.
No it doesn't but once is enough. We get it the first time.
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Old 01-01-2017, 22:58
Jenny1986
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Any female character? Who?
Molly and Mrs Hudson are beloved characters.

I know some hated Irene, but that was a long time ago. Personally, I think she was perfect.
I loved Irene! The only misstep with her, is that Sherlock had to rescue her. That felt a bit off as she should have outsmarted him in the end. She did throughout the episode and earned his respect but she should have had the last laugh.

I have a feeling the poster you quoted is talking in general, so including other shows though nothing springs to mind for me.
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Old 01-01-2017, 22:59
Lady of Traken
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Well I watched this and not too sure what to make of it. I remembered there was a Sherlock Holmes story about busts '"The Six Napoleons".so at least the story was loosely based on that but then went off on a James Bond tangent about secret service treachery which felt oddly out of place.

Did I actually like Mary. Did I care about her ? Not really. Too ballsy, too aggressive even in her softer moments with John. Glad she's gone. Felt the story became quite self indulgent and tenuous when it was established it was her past that was the story. .

Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman are good and watchable most of the time in their roles although Martin Freeman is the more interesting due to the subtlety of his performance. Benedict surprises me occasionally. Hope next week doesn't focus on the domestic but on the clients story more.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:00
Semierotic
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"Never have so many televisions been switched over more quickly than when Sherlock finished and Mrs Brown's Boys threatened to begin."
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:00
jllc
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No need to pretend this is a gender issue. She just isn't a compelling character, and perhaps the least convincing mercenary in the history of fiction.

I'll be charitable and assume the writers probably realised they'd written themselves into a bit of a corner with the mixed reaction to her in series 3 and decided to spend an episode getting rid of her. I just wish it was better.
Yes but the reason a lot of female characters are disliked in the first place is that some people dislike having them coming in between two male leads. In Conran's original stories John Watson had a wife, whether people like it or not. They have every right to go there. I know the female characters are not as well developed as the male leads are, but that is no reason why they should be ignored. Thats the point I am making.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:01
Vast_Girth
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I liked it a lot. It seems that many vocal people on here just want it to be a standard police procedural featuring Sherlock Holmes. We already have that, its called "Elementary" and there are many episodes out there for you to enjoy.

Sherlock isn't that though. The writers show they could do that with all the snippets of cases we see , but they choose not to and whilst certainly not everything works, it is all the more interesting for it.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:01
Boz_Lowdownl
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What's deeply odd is someone posting the same opinions about a show they dislike over and over again. We got it the first time you posted you don't like it. No need to keep going on about it ad infinitum.
Trying limiting your opinions to one or two comments instead of repeating the same things over and over again. It's beyond tiresome everytime you appear on a thread.
It does clarify it. It clarified it the first half dozen times you said it. It's beyond tiresome now everytime you keep repeating yourself on thread after thread after thread.
No it doesn't but once is enough. We get it the first time.
Sorry, could you repeat that please, I don't think we all got it the first, second, third or fourth time.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:01
Bej
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Actually, mentioning the Study in Pink just makes me remember how good Sherlock used to be. Cases that were solved, satisfaction from an episode. The initial introduction of Moriarty was successful, but this episode wasn't a patch on those. I really hope there isn't another series after this.
Fair enough, you didn't like the episode, but I must saw that it seems odd to want a show cancelled just because you personally no longer enjoy it. There are many shows that I have fallen out of love with, and stopped watching, but there were clearly other people watching, so I wouldn't begrudge them getting another series (in fact the reverse would be true).

I actually think it is a deeply selfish view that is typical of a lot of people nowadays. If you really don't like it, stop watching; nobody ifs forcing you to watch, but you have no right to call for the series to be cancelled if it is getting sufficient viewers to justify the investment.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:02
anyonefortennis
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Straker has sent me a PM warning me to desist and that he has reported me to the mods Desist from what? Speaking the truth?

Methinks he doth protest too much..........
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:03
saladfingers81
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One of the Thatcher busts looked really cheap. Like a plaster of paris He-man head I made as a kid. Just stuck in my mind.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:03
Alrightmate
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I enjoyed it but I really don't / didn't care about Mary and to me it was preposterous to indulge two or three episodes on her and weakening the Holmes / Watson dynamic rather than having Sherlock doing what he does best.

I'm now tired of the Moriarty back from the dead tease.

It is still very good but I wish they would just get on with it.
Yes, the concern for me is that while it may get back to its stride there may not be a lot of time left when there is talk that they might not make any more. Which would be a shame.
Two excellent series, a not too bad third series, a not so great Christmas special, and so far a bad first episode to series 4, but then how many more are they going to make?

I think that this may factor in why I get annoyed at weaker episodes. Because I feel that there is a finite number of episodes left to be made seeing as the series are so very short as it is. Every episode counts more.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:03
Straker
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Sorry, could you repeat that please, I don't think we all got it the first, second, third or fourth time.
It seems the DS warning I posted about such behaviour on the last page has gone entirely unheeded.

Straker has sent me a PM telling me to desist and that he has reported me to the mods Desist from what? Speaking the truth?
I simply asked you to stop derailing the thread as this must be tiresome for everyone.
It is against forum rules to shout down the opinions of others just because you happen to disagree with them. I posted the DS warning on the last page so I suggest you read it and "desist" in this behaviour.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:03
pixel_pixel
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Maybe the series will pick up now that Mary has gone. She was getting in the way of the plots.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:04
Boz_Lowdownl
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Have all the moaners gone yet? I try to avoid the first few pages of "reviews" on here, as people either don't understand what's going on (when it's perfectly clear) or think it's "crap".

Boring beyond belief to have to wade through - do they know how dim they sound I wonder? Perhaps they don't care.

Anyway, I really liked it - it was back to the quality of the first two series imo having lost it's way when it became steeped in sentiment in series 3.

There were some flaws; I agree that the Thatcher bust sub plot was unlikely. I actually thought Mary's trip was just too much padding.

I must admit I'm glad Mary's dead, but it seems she's still hanging around in spite of it. Oh, well.

John's bit on the side won't end well. I'm sure there's something not good there.

Can't wait for next week.

Who's Sherringford?






Well that's remarkably selfish, given that if you don't like it you needn't watch it.
Oh Granny! Just a bit hypocritical given all your many anti-Moffat posts on the Doctor Who forum.

I'm really bemused how you can hate what Moffat's done to Who but love what he's done with Sherlock!
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:05
Paul_Culloty
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Presumably Flirty Bus Woman was deputed by Toby Jones's character (or another future villain) to keep tabs on Watson and the links will be revealed over the next two episodes? Much like Janine in series three, even a minor characted is never introduced without some underlying purpose.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:05
saladfingers81
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Maybe the series will pick up now that Mary has gone. She was getting in the way of the plots.
Really? Seemed to me like she has been driving the plots forward for the last 3 episodes. We really don't need another old boys detective story where the females are relegated to tea making and draping themselves over desks.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:05
Jenny1986
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Yes but the reason a lot of female characters are disliked in the first place is that some people dislike having them coming in between two male leads. In Conran's original stories John Watson had a wife, whether people like it or not. They have every right to go there. I know the female characters are not as well developed as the male leads are, but that is no reason why they should be ignored. Thats the point I am making.
I think people just didn't like the attempt to make them the 3 musketeers, Mary was never a big character in the stories. John had a wife but she was very much a side character. They wanted her to be more central which I don't mind, I just hated the whole spy backstory for her. I had no issue with her until that all came out.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:06
deisegirl
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I've never been a *massive* fan of Sherlock but it's still very watchable. I found S3 quite convoluted but this was a slight improvement.

From looking at this thread I see i'm in the minority in liking Mary.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:07
anyonefortennis
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Sorry, could you repeat that please, I don't think we all got it the first, second, third or fourth time.
I thought I'd get in on the act and see how he'd like to read the same point being made over and over again.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:09
Michael_Eve
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Maybe the series will pick up now that Mary has gone. She was getting in the way of the plots.
So you're pleased that she got in the way of the bullet?

That bullet was travelling v slowly wasn't it? Looked like slow motion. Unrealistic.

(I go for levity when things get a bit tense in a thread, sorry!)
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:10
Alrightmate
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I don't quite understand how they are angry with Sherlock? When he faked his death, yes that makes sense, when he is being an insufferable arse, yes. But what did he do to Mary for her to say that before she died? John is just looking for someone to blame which I understand but her saying go to hell was just weird.
That made me think that is is how it may be written. It may be revealed that the marriage was on the rocks anyway and John's fanciful thoughts about the woman on the bus are evidence of that. So yes, his blaming of Sherlock might be a deflection away from his own guilt. It may be Sherlock who tells him that too.

No idea about the 'Go to hell!' line I suspect that it may be a metaphor being used as a clue for the next case. For example Sherlock has to investigate a cult of satanists or something.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:11
Rhumbatugger
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Maybe the series will pick up now that Mary has gone. She was getting in the way of the plots.
I think she'll still be some sort of 'force' after death I'm afraid.

John will blame Sherlock for winding Norbury up, and he has a point. However, he's a faithless bstard himself so some of it is projected anger at himself.

I expect bloody Moriarty will still be hovering, wish he'd just actually piss off now.

I'm fairly certain Bad hair bus stop lady will be some sort of weird plant. Wish we could forget her too.

HOPING for some return to some NON Bond fascinating case, but I think we're going to have another WORLD domination type baddie.

I hope it will be entertaining and not make me rather bloody sad and annoyed as this episode did.

I've bought all the other DVDs, was a massive fan, but it's failing me, since the last series really.


Perhaps I can come to some emotional accommodation and treat it as a bit of okay entertainment.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:13
jllc
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I think people just didn't like the attempt to make them the 3 musketeers, Mary was never a big character in the stories. John had a wife but she was very much a side character. They wanted her to be more central which I don't mind, I just hated the whole spy backstory for her. I had no issue with her until that all came out.
Now that view I can understand. I have never read the books, so maybe they should have stayed true to her character in that. It is just I have watched other shows where let's say it seems that women characters, get resented for being there at all.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:13
RickLopez
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Fair enough, you didn't like the episode, but I must saw that it seems odd to want a show cancelled just because you personally no longer enjoy it. There are many shows that I have fallen out of love with, and stopped watching, but there were clearly other people watching, so I wouldn't begrudge them getting another series (in fact the reverse would be true).

I actually think it is a deeply selfish view that is typical of a lot of people nowadays. If you really don't like it, stop watching; nobody ifs forcing you to watch, but you have no right to call for the series to be cancelled if it is getting sufficient viewers to justify the investment.
It shouldn't be cancelled, it just shouldn't be renewed for another series. Programmes don't have to go on forever, and I'd like the memory and legacy of this series to be mostly good.

Like The Simpsons, started great and then declined. Don't let Sherlock keep declining. Keep it as something that was great.
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Old 01-01-2017, 23:17
Alrightmate
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No it doesn't but once is enough. We get it the first time.
I don't care. Somebody can post praise or criticism, as long as they aren't criticising posters for posting their opinions it's fine as far as I'm concerned.
If you don't agree with them then it doesn't mean anything, you just move on.

It's only really necessary to take something up with a poster if they've posted something inaccurate which you want to correct as it may have a bearing on how they perceived something.
To complain about people simply posting their like or dislike of an episode of something is a bit silly in my opinion. What are you going to do? Make them like or dislike it?
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