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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 02-01-2017, 12:45
Semierotic
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Would you say that about a personal acquaintance? Your in-laws?
Baz, even by your standards that's a hell of a non-sequitur.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:49
Mandark
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Hmm...can't help but think that this was one of those half baked spy stories that script writers often come up with. Let's have some plain old mysterious detective stories please!!
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:51
Baz_James
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On the whole I enjoyed it - but I just can't get over the enormous coincidences with busts.
And the way Mary died.

So, the political family just happened to be owners of one of the busts. Which is coincidentally destroyed around the same time as their sons death, in extremely unusual circumstances, involving a random car crash?
And that one of these orniments happened to contain a USB key relating directly to Mary. Because, for some reason, they were producing a limited run of Margret Thatcher busts in Tbilisi, at the same time and place as the hostage situation.
If it wasn't for enormous coincidences, detective fiction would barely be possible at all. Conan Doyle didn't write documentaries!
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:58
brangdon
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Really? Seemed to me like she has been driving the plots forward for the last 3 episodes. We really don't need another old boys detective story where the females are relegated to tea making and draping themselves over desks.
I don't mind female characters, but Mary was never convincing as a spy, and it stretched credibility further for her to be a super-spy. Competence porn at its worst. I do like the American show, Elementary. In that they made Watson be a woman, and almost on a par with Holmes (not as good at deduction etc, but better at empathy etc). It works pretty well, and avoids the boys' club issue you mention. (They also did a better job of Irene Adler.)

And finally.... .Mr. Super Sleuth who misses nothing ... and Miss top notch super dooper secret agent never had a thought between them to wear a bullet proof vest !!!
I kinda assumed he had one. He knew what he was getting into, and it made no sense for him to goad her otherwise. I figured Mary got herself killed needlessly. Not canon, obviously, but it's what I thought at the time.

I was wondering where she got the money from to just take off on an extended trip.
We see her get a password and other things from a cache hidden in a stone wall. Presumably she had similar caches with money.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:59
fiveinabed
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On the whole I enjoyed it - but I just can't get over the enormous coincidences with busts.
And the way Mary died.

So, the political family just happened to be owners of one of the busts. Which is coincidentally destroyed around the same time as their sons death, in extremely unusual circumstances, involving a random car crash?
And that one of these orniments happened to contain a USB key relating directly to Mary. Because, for some reason, they were producing a limited run of Margret Thatcher busts in Tbilisi, at the same time and place as the hostage situation.

And the way Mary just threw herself in front of the bullet was just so stupid.
I couldn't feel any emotion about her death because, I was too busy thinking "hey, what??"
Seems I've been watching it wrong all these years! I didn't realise it was meant to be a documentary! I thought it was meant to be fictional comedy drama. My mistake.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:05
enna_g
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I think I must be the only person on here who actually likes Mary. I cried when she died!

However I think it is all part of another plot and story. You cannot tell me that a super spy does not know when her husband is texting another woman. I think they were both in on it because it is part of something much wider - as yet I am not sure what. I have a feeling she didn't die and John was in on it which gave him an excuse to extricate himself from Sherlock.
Mary's DVD message was for Sherlock to recue John and that in order to do that he had to go to hell.

Of course I may be totally wrong. I enjoyed the episode. I enjoyed the humour of the fast ridiculous explanantions of the probabilities of randomely throwing a dice. I enjoyed the balloon head and the tracker dog scenes. Moriarty won't be back - he is dead, but someone using his name to get Sherlock back - like the Toby Jones character is more likely.

I thoroughly enjoyed all of it and am going to watch again for some signs that I may have missed.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:07
Semierotic
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Seems I've been watching it wrong all these years! I didn't realise it was meant to be a documentary! I thought it was meant to be fictional comedy drama. My mistake.
Although I've come to take absurd coincidences in my stride with Sherlock, the above is a tedious stock answer to any such criticism. There's nothing wrong with calling out dodgy storytelling in fiction.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:09
gomezz
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I am not entirely convinced that master of disguise Mary is *not* the other woman!
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:11
Ben_Fisher1
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I thought it was kind of lame last night. The incident of the young boy in the car seemed silly and superfluous, and the jumping in front of a bullet device is always trite, but last night it was cringey. i'd give it 6/10 must do better.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:17
Baz_James
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I don't mind female characters, but Mary was never convincing as a spy, and it stretched credibility further for her to be a super-spy. Competence porn at its worst. I do like the American show, Elementary. In that they made Watson be a woman, and almost on a par with Holmes (not as good at deduction etc, but better at empathy etc). It works pretty well, and avoids the boys' club issue you mention. (They also did a better job of Irene Adler.)
Can you imagine the howling if they'd done something like that over here? The rewriting of canon necessary for the Irene Adler of Elementary would have caused apoplexy!
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:18
Whedonite
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(They also did a better job of Irene Adler.).
Did they? I thought Irene was ruined in the show, because in the books, she out witted Sherlock, didn't end up falling in love with him and didn't need rescuing?
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:20
A.D.P
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I am not entirely convinced that master of disguise Mary is *not* the other woman!
I thought that.

As a former Spy, another change of person. Sherlock dodged death, from the books, people expected Mary to die, but they love a twist.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:26
Baz_James
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I am not entirely convinced that master of disguise Mary is *not* the other woman!
At last! I think not but there's no doubt that she was made to resemble Mary, a version of Mary free of the complications and the past that she carries around with her. There's then no difficulty at all in seeing why that would be appealing to John and a very effective entrapment to be exploited by the new villain.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:30
Baz_James
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Did they? I thought Irene was ruined in the show, because in the books, she out witted Sherlock, didn't end up falling in love with him and didn't need rescuing?
Did you watch subsequent seasons? If not it's going to be hard to difficult to explain without a huge spoiler but it's a lot more complicated than you've suggested.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:39
Versailles
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It was shown twice with the second occasion being the reveal that John was texting the bus lady when his wife left the bedroom. The first occasion ended when he picked up he phone.
Ok, thank you
I dont know why they showed it twice, though.
It irritated me to no end the way Watson behaved.

Yes, your wife is an evil psycho killer, but get a divorce first, please
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:42
Versailles
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Did they? I thought Irene was ruined in the show, because in the books, she out witted Sherlock, didn't end up falling in love with him and didn't need rescuing?
I think Irene was better in the show, but could have done without the obvious prostitution going on.
Irene in the book was more subtle, and outsmarted Sherlock, but I dont want him to be
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:42
gashead
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I thought it was ok in itself, but it's a shame to me that it seems to have morphed from a series of 90 minute detective dramas - where there was a central mystery for Sherlock to resolve and the character development of H and W and the elements of the bigger picture were essentially background - to what now seems to be a 270 minute, three-part serial drama, where each episode serves only to drive the story of the bigger picture to the next episode, and the actual detecting that I suspect most people want to see is reduced to mere vignettes.

That might not be so bad if the actual story wasn't so pedestrian. I know the idea of Mary going to such elaborate lengths to disappear, only to be foiled by something as simple as a tracking device is an (very) old trope, but somehow I expected a 'better', more sophisticated use of this cliche from Moffat and Gatiss. (On that subject, apparently the tracking device was John's idea, which, unless I missed something, means Sherlock contacted John after obtaining it and explained what it was, but he (John) decided Sherlock should be the one to discuss it with his wife. As you do.)

Add to that the hackneyed 'I think I can still surprise you' line from the 'villian' (the P.A.; too easy) when it looks like she has no way out, plus the utterly pointless shooting of/ at Sherlock (surely you're supposed to do that before the police and witnesses arrive, not in full view of them?), Mary breaking the laws of known physics to move faster than the bullet, and then her message from supposedly beyond the grave, and it was hard to know if we were meant to take it seriously or treat it all as an Austin Powers-esque, tongue-in-cheek parody of itself.

I didn't hate it by any means. I didn't even dislike it. It just seemed further away from how it started off than it ever has (excluding last year's effort).
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:43
Versailles
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At last! I think not but there's no doubt that she was made to resemble Mary, a version of Mary free of the complications and the past that she carries around with her. There's then no difficulty at all in seeing why that would be appealing to John and a very effective entrapment to be exploited by the new villain.
Who? The bus lady? Was that Amanda Abbington?
If so, I am too easily fooled
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:48
Baz_James
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Who? The bus lady? Was that Amanda Abbington?
If so, I am too easily fooled
No I don't think it was (I'm fairly sure I know who it actually was). That's what I was saying. But it was someone chosen specifically to give you pause before making that determination.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:49
Cricketblade
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Would you say that about a personal acquaintance? Your in-laws?
Depends!
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:50
Versailles
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I have liked Amanda Abbington for some time now, and I think she was so cute in series three. But something must have happened to the actress, because she looks somewhat haggard, tired and unwell. Her face has a blueish tint to it too.
She is only 42.

I know she is getting divorced, and I think it may not be so mutual as they claimed.

Very strange to include Watson cheating if that is the case. I know he didn't really cheat, but texting other women while your wife cares for your newborn baby is low.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:52
Versailles
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No I don't think it was (I'm fairly sure I know who it actually was). That's what I was saying. But it was someone chosen specifically to give you pause before making that determination.
Ok, I am lost
Irene, then? But Laura Pulver is so beautiful and charming.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:56
Versailles
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Im getting confused. The new episode is not on Netflix.

Netflix Norway has the rights to this series of Sherlock, whereas NRK (your BBC) had the rights to the others.
Hence, it's on Netflix Norway.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:57
Baz_James
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I have liked Amanda Abbington for some time now, and I think she was so cute in series three. But something must have happened to the actress, because she looks somewhat haggard, tired and unwell. Her face has a blueish tint to it too.
She is only 42.
You do know that they used make-up to make her look like someone who had just had a baby and was raddled with sleep deprivation? She looks absolutely fine in her most recent Twitter pics.
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Old 02-01-2017, 13:57
claire2281
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I think there is a lot of clutching at straws here from people trying to make the plot contrivances and holes into something meaningful. I really don't think they are. It was just a means to an ends and the producers don't really care if it doesn't make 100% sense or seem to fit.
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