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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 02-01-2017, 13:58
gashead
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Very strange to include Watson cheating if that is the case. I know he didn't really cheat, but texting other women while your wife cares for your newborn baby is low.
Yes, it is lower than a snake's belly, but unfortunately it's all too common. Without getting too 'Relate' about it, sex is often the last thing on many new mum's minds, whereas men tend to want to get back to it asap. The trouble for me is that they never gave any hint of that, or indeed any reason why John would want to cheat. He's meant to be the most noble and upstanding of men, yet here he is seemingly fooling around with someone who just accosted him at the bus stop. The nature of that encounter suggests there most be more to it than simple 'adultery'. A set-up/ honey-trap of some sort.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:04
Granny McSmith
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At last! I think not but there's no doubt that she was made to resemble Mary, a version of Mary free of the complications and the past that she carries around with her. There's then no difficulty at all in seeing why that would be appealing to John and a very effective entrapment to be exploited by the new villain.
She didn't look anything like Mary, to me.

I'm withholding judgement about John, until I know how it all ends. I can't believe he would cheat on Mary, even if it's just by text, but if he has, I'll be devastated. (I love Martin's Watson).

I'm sure, though, it's part of some bigger plot and he's totally innocent.

(Crosses fingers).
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:04
Baz_James
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I think there is a lot of clutching at straws here from people trying to make the plot contrivances and holes into something meaningful. I really don't think they are. It was just a means to an ends and the producers don't really care if it doesn't make 100% sense or seem to fit.
You can throw many charges at Gatiss and Moffat with more or less justification. Not caring is not one of them.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:05
Versailles
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What? I wasn't aware there was an age limit. This will come as a bit of a shock to a lot of single grandparents and great grandparents.
She is 80 years old, living alone, with a problem with alcohol and a bad hip. I am sure the Watsons will be happy to let her care for the newborn baby.

Carrying a newborn is risky.
I was not aware that single great grand parents could have custody of newborn babies, but maybe it is different where I live.

My neighbours had to take care of their grandson when their daughter was killed in a car accident. The child was nearly two, and the grand parents in their sixties. No problems, he is now a well adjusted teenager.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:07
callumfreeman
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Could Mary saying "Go to Hell" be referring to the village Hell in Norway? By the looks of it in the final episode
Spoiler
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:09
Granny McSmith
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You can throw many charges at Gatiss and Moffat with more or less justification. Not caring is not one of them.
I couldn't disagree more. Not caring whether things make sense is one of Moffat's great failings.

(Or perhaps he does care, but is just a bad writer).
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:10
gashead
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She didn't look anything like Mary, to me.

I'm withholding judgement about John, until I know how it all ends. I can't believe he would cheat on Mary, even if it's just by text, but if he has, I'll be devastated. (I love Martin's Watson).

I'm sure, though, it's part of some bigger plot and he's totally innocent.

(Crosses fingers).
Well, he did 'cheat' on her. He ended it - or tried to, who knows where it will lead - but the intent was there, if only briefly.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:12
gashead
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Could Mary saying "Go to Hell" be referring to the village Hell in Norway? By the looks of it in the final episode
Spoiler
I didn't know anything about that, but I don't think anyone should read 'Go to Hell' as being an insult. It may be as you suggest, or it may be selectively edited, something like 'John would go to Hell for you'.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:15
Granny McSmith
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Well, he did 'cheat' on her. He ended it - or tried to, who knows where it will lead - but the intent was there, if only briefly.
But we don't know why, yet.

I admit it looks bad. Humour me, I'm in denial.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:16
Baz_James
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She didn't look anything like Mary, to me.
Really? Take another look. There's one shot where it's almost impossible to believe that it's not her, especially when the nonsense on the airplane is clearly there to suggest that Mary is capable of a disguise so effective that even her own husband couldn't see through it (we know that Sherlock is and she's clearly meant to be a match for him in the spy skills department).
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:18
Versailles
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Could Mary saying "Go to Hell" be referring to the village Hell in Norway? By the looks of it in the final episode
Spoiler
I will welome them with open arms
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:19
Granny McSmith
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Really? Take another look. There's one shot where it's almost impossible to believe that it's not her, especially when the nonsense on the airplane is clearly there to suggest that Mary is capable of a disguise so effective that even her own husband couldn't see through it (we know that Sherlock is and she's clearly meant to be a match for him in the spy skills department).
I'll admit I'm not the most visually observant person, so I am probably wrong - I'll watch it again to see all the things I missed last time.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:25
callumfreeman
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I will welome them with open arms
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:33
PaperSkin
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Why did Mary die for Sherlock though, She has a new born daughter, that doesn't ring true to me (unless its a faked death) a Mother's survival instincts would be incredibly high after having a baby and being in the first stage of taking care of said baby...

And yet she jumps in front of a bullet to save Sherlock, why? Sherlock would of preferred himself to be the one to get shot not Mary, so she can have the family life with John and their daughter which is what Sherlock wanted, he wants them to be happy, he wouldn't want to break the family up just for his life (which he doesn't really value all that much anyway) and why would Mary sacrifice her life for him, sure she likes him a lot and Sherlock has helped her, but really choosing Sherlock over being there as a mother for her daughter and leaving John to be the sole parent in raising the daughter, nah don't buy that.
To add on - Even if Mary felt indebted to Sherlock, sacrificing her life and leaving her child motherless for him is an extreme exaggeration of paying back a debt, it doesn't seem right at all.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:38
missymorgan
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Really? Take another look. There's one shot where it's almost impossible to believe that it's not her, especially when the nonsense on the airplane is clearly there to suggest that Mary is capable of a disguise so effective that even her own husband couldn't see through it (we know that Sherlock is and she's clearly meant to be a match for him in the spy skills department).
Definitely not Mary. Sian Brooke is credited as Elizabeth, rather than E, and it definitely looks like Sian.

Judging by newspaper photos she has scenes with Benedict Cumberbatch so I expect the meeting between E and Watson was no coincidence and will be part of the plot in the next two episodes.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:48
gashead
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To add on - Even if Mary felt indebted to Sherlock, sacrificing her life and leaving her child motherless for him is an extreme exaggeration of paying back a debt, it doesn't seem right at all.
It occurred to me that the whole shooting might have been staged/ set-up, although precisely why and by whom Lord knows, as there was absolutely no reason for Norbury to shoot Sherlock. She was caught bang to rights by that point. Mycroft and the police had heard her confess, so what did she think it would achieve? Ok, Sherlock may have insulted her by nailing her sad little life, but enough to want to murder him? Is that not a bit OTT? Unless, perhaps, the shooting itself was all part of some elaborate plan.
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Old 02-01-2017, 14:57
thehordeoftrav
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There was something not right about the episode. The directing, the music and the flow of the show was noticeably different.
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:01
primosprimos
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I didn't know anything about that, but I don't think anyone should read 'Go to Hell' as being an insult. It may be as you suggest, or it may be selectively edited, something like 'John would go to Hell for you'.
I'd like to think it was Amanda Abbington's message to Martin Freeman.
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:02
primosprimos
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There was something not right about the episode. The directing, the music and the flow of the show was noticeably different.
If by different you mean bad, yes it was.
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:09
16caerhos
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I never cared about Mary. At all. Not even a little bit.

Glad she's gone lol
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:15
Takae
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She could if it was a fake bullet shot at someone wearing an armoured vest. Why else was Holmes goading the "killer" while she still held a "loaded" gun?
Good Lord. I do hope they won't use the fake-death gimmick again.

In Conan Doyle's version, Mary died some time after the Reichenbach Falls incident, so Watson was a widower when Sherlock returned after three years. Knowing this, I assumed Mary was always meant to die. It was a question of when, how and why.

Holmes goaded Norbury because, as he said to Mrs Hudson, he was over-confident. Arrogant. Cocky. Hence, his request for Mrs Hudson to say "Norbury" as a reminder.

Similar to what Holmes said to Watson in The Adventure of the Yellow Face:

"Watson, if it should ever strike you that I am getting a little overconfident in my powers, or giving less pains to a case than it deserves, kindly whisper 'Norbury' in my ear, and I shall be infinitely obliged to you."
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:30
Virgil Tracy
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well I enjoyed it but they totally ruined the death scene by doing that absurd slow-mo bullet thing and her jumping in front of it , it ruined the reality of the moment .

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btw - did we ever see the other 2 members of AGRA ?
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:32
HHGTTG
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If by different you mean bad, yes it was.
It truly was dire. I have cancelled any remaining episodes of this tosh.
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:34
Versailles
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I'd like to think it was Amanda Abbington's message to Martin Freeman.
Oh, my..
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Old 02-01-2017, 15:35
Baz_James
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btw - did we ever see the other 2 members of AGRA ?
Only behind masks in the initial incursion into the embassy.
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