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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 02-01-2017, 20:32
DanielF
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Next series shoots to 30 years later, with Watson Jr as the protagonist?
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Old 02-01-2017, 20:47
Aaron_2015
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There was a BuzzFeed article about Sherlock, and 84% of people said they didn't understand what the hell happened.

I'll probably watch it again at the weekend when I can concentrate a bit better.
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Old 02-01-2017, 20:49
CBFreak
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The woman on the bus I've heard suggestions it could be moriarty in disguise. Which is vaguely possible I guess. She just signed her name as E. I'm thinking Moriat E
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Old 02-01-2017, 20:55
Versailles
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The woman on the bus I've heard suggestions it could be moriarty in disguise. Which is vaguely possible I guess. She just signed her name as E. I'm thinking Moriat E


If it is, then the actor better be Andrew Scott. Everything else is cheating. And it certainly was not.
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Old 02-01-2017, 20:55
TUC
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The episode had several elements, any of which could have made a good story, but the problem was that all of them were crammed in, none lasting more than a few minutes. For example, what on earth was the point of Mary disappearing abroad, only for Sherlock to find her five minutes later? Nothing was given any time to develop.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:00
oxfordruse
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The woman on the bus I've heard suggestions it could be moriarty in disguise. Which is vaguely possible I guess. She just signed her name as E. I'm thinking Moriat E
Hahaha.... with all due respect, this theory, while perhaps earnest enough, is an example of why the show has gone off the rails a bit. When fans are proposing these kinds of suggestions, how the heck is the series ever to live up to such wild expectations?

I actually thought last night's episode was poor by 'Sherlock' standards, though average-to-good by British drama standards. It was by far the weakest story-wise, with a convoluted plot that lacked the usual tightness.

Indifference towards to the story wouldn't have mattered so much if the acting hadn't been so all over the place... the first time I've said that about this show. Rupert Graves' (Lestrade) acting was positively hammy, which I perhaps haven't noticed until now because he's been offered in small doses. Even the two leads were overdoing it a bit.

The one memorable moment was, of course, the big scene for Mary; which is ironic, because her character has bogged the show down something terrible, but Amanda Abbington turned in the finest performance.

I'll still watch, of course, but I'm disappointed by the fanboyesque press reviews. Can no one critique anything anymore? They did the same fawning with The Fall, even though it was terrible.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:02
lordloz
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A lot of the "gaping plot holes" are part of the plot, which only become clear either later in the episode or if you go back and read the original stories. Moffat's clever at weaving stuff in.
But they didn't become clear

My issues were all written after the episode so of course are unresolved.....
I'm not a reader of the original stories unlike some here who know more but even so...if they have taken liberties and given it a modern take then it's beholden on the writers in the 21st century to fill those gaping plot holes....so again

a) didn't know who Thatcher was (nonsense) ok not knowing say trivia a genius wouldn't bother with the minutiae of trash like X factor for example......not to know the first female PM of his own country who held office and went to war is complete tosh......

b)USB sticks with agents details of team members carried with them on an op.....ludicrous....

c) if a tracker on USB how did he know where she WOULD be? he'd follow her not be there before her..

d)was the tea boy deaf? did he not hear weapons discharged before popping in with a tray of Earl Gray?

e) an army medic would instinctively try and establish wound severity and attempt some sort of treatment......breaks the Hippocratic Oath not to attempt to save any life let alone the one of your own wife...

hey yes it's only a show and poetic licence but the writers know the microscope it gets put under by fans so if paid handsomely for it they should ensure such things are sorted.... IMHO...
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:12
gomezz
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The woman on the bus looked nothing like her
That is just what a master of disguise would be able to achieve.

For the purposes of the programme you start off with a different actress looking nothing like. Next time you have that actress but made up to look a little like Mary would look if she had not been so good at disguise. Step 3 is to have Mary made to look like the different actress. Finally, in the grand reveal Mary sweeps her hand in front of her face to remove the mask that made her look a bit like the other actress.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:12
JedHawk
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But they didn't become clear

My issues were all written after the episode so of course are unresolved.....
I'm not a reader of the original stories unlike some here who know more but even so...if they have taken liberties and given it a modern take then it's beholden on the writers in the 21st century to fill those gaping plot holes....so again

a) didn't know who Thatcher was (nonsense) ok not knowing say trivia a genius wouldn't bother with the minutiae of trash like X factor for example......not to know the first female PM of his own country who held office and went to war is complete tosh......

b)USB sticks with agents details of team members carried with them on an op.....ludicrous....

c) if a tracker on USB how did he know where she WOULD be? he'd follow her not be there before her..

d)was the tea boy deaf? did he not hear weapons discharged before popping in with a tray of Earl Gray?

e) an army medic would instinctively try and establish wound severity and attempt some sort of treatment......breaks the Hippocratic Oath not to attempt to save any life let alone the one of your own wife...

hey yes it's only a show and poetic licence but the writers know the microscope it gets put under by fans so if paid handsomely for it they should ensure such things are sorted.... IMHO...
Part a) was answered by John, who told Sherlock off for "obviously stalling".

Part b) totally agree.

Part c) the problem with using a microscope to find faults is that you will find them even when they aren't there. It seems reasonable enough that he tracked her to the city and village and thereafter figured out her movements and minor habits in her current temporary residence. Not everything needs explaining on screen, just enough to give the idea of what happened.

Part d) who doesn't like a dramatic crockery falling to the floor scene? Agree with the fact the noise should have caught his attention before he returned.

Part e) that did annoy me, too. Although when he pressed onto her wound it looked like he was trying to find the bullet. But, no, John acted out of character and skillset, completely.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:15
albundy73
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The reason many people cant follow complex plots is because they watch while on their smart phones checking social media and cant put their phone down for ninety minutes.

That said i was concentrating fully and only part understood it so anyone not concentrating had no chance
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:29
nedski
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Could someone explain the scene near the end with Mycroft, the post it note and the phone call he made? I haven't a clue what that was about unless I'm having a "doh" moment?
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:31
Bob Paisley
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Could someone explain the scene near the end with Mycroft, the post it note and the phone call he made? I haven't a clue what that was about unless I'm having a "doh" moment?
You're not supposed to know what it meant, I think. They're setting something up for future episodes.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:37
Enfant Terrible
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The one memorable moment was, of course, the big scene for Mary; which is ironic, because her character has bogged the show down something terrible, but Amanda Abbington turned in the finest performance.
I was really enjoying this episode until about 30 mins in, when I realised with a sinking feeling that this was going to be all about Mary...yet AGAIN.
I've never found her character particularly interesting or believable, in fact the whole "I am really a super ninja spy" was quite preposterous to start with.

Sorry to those who did like her but I am glad to finally see the back of her. Now bring on the magnificent Toby Jones and let's have some fun again!
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:37
striing
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It's topped the ratings so it seems that we'd rather watch Sherlock at it's not best than anything else.

I initally gave up when it turned into a fist fight but rewatched on iplayer and I thought overall it was watchable. As others have said, not the standard of series 1 or 2 but certainly a lot better than the execrable series 3 which I didn't make it through or that farce last year. And it'll improve now we can have another key figure instead of Mary.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:38
nedski
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You're not supposed to know what it meant, I think. They're setting something up for future episodes.
Thanks, glad I've not just missed something ...
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:41
Versailles
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Could someone explain the scene near the end with Mycroft, the post it note and the phone call he made? I haven't a clue what that was about unless I'm having a "doh" moment?
The note said 13th. And then he picked up the phone and called someone named Sherringford. Who, in Doctor Who, is the eldest brother of Sherlock and Mycroft.

Maybe he was reminded to call someone that day?

On another note, their mother's name was Rose Sherringford in the canon.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:53
fallfallfall
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Could someone explain the scene near the end with Mycroft, the post it note and the phone call he made? I haven't a clue what that was about unless I'm having a "doh" moment?
He asks to speak to Sherrinford the elder brother, He isnt in the books but is in the Doctor who book/ Big finish audio All-Consuming Fire.
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Old 02-01-2017, 22:16
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Rumours are swirling that following the universal praise of this storyline the BBC is working on a brand new prequel series which will focus on Mary's mercenary adventures. Cumberbatch may cameo in an episode.
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Old 02-01-2017, 22:30
Alrightmate
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Why did Mary die for Sherlock though, She has a new born daughter, that doesn't ring true to me (unless its a faked death) a Mother's survival instincts would incredibly high after having a baby and being in the first stage of taking care of said baby...

And yet she jumps in front of a bullet to save Sherlock, why, Sherlock would of preferred himself to of be the one to get shot not Mary, so she can have the family life with John and their daughter which is what Sherlock wanted, he wants them to be happy, he wouldn't want to break the family up just for his life (that he doesn't really value all that much anyway) and why would Mary sacrifice her life for him, sure she likes him a lot and Sherlock has helped her, but really choosing Sherlock over being there as a mother for her daughter and leaving John to be the sole parent in raising the daughter, nah don't buy that.
Very good point.

I was wondering it could have been a faked death. To keep Mary safe for example if she's in danger and the real killer thinks she's already dead.
But that would mean that some of the final scenes wouldn't make sense dramatically, because then the characters would only be acting sad for the benefit of the viewer as if they've taken into account that they are in a fictional drama being shown on television.

But yes, a pregnant woman sacrificing her baby over Sherlock just doesn't make sense. There would be a subconscious instinct for her to prevent herself from doing that even if she thought that she wanted to.
She wouldn't be just sacrificing herself, she would be sacrificing her unborn baby for the sake of Sherlock, which I'm doubtful there'd be enough compulsion for her to do.
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Old 02-01-2017, 22:44
Alrightmate
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It's amazing, isn't it, that what's clearly intended as a teaser is being analysed as though it was part of the story this week rather than next? It's a common trailer trick to give something out of context which later turns out to have a completely different explanation than any of the obvious immediate reactions would suggest. Yet we already have 'experts' interpreting for us.
What? Are you suggesting that I'm presenting myself as an 'expert'?
I was reading your post straight until I got to the last line where I realised you appear to be being sarcastic towards me.
What is amazing is how some posters can conjure up some hostility towards other posters over practically nothing.
I'm rereading my own post trying to figure out how somebody could take it so negatively.

I'm not trying to be an expert, I'm trying to have fun speculating. Which many of us enjoy and which is part of the enjoyment of watching a series like Sherlock.
I'm not even interpreting anything for you. The tone in my post is obviously presenting it as a mere suggestion of what might be. Every single suggestion in my posts is in turn prefaced by 2 'may bes', 1 'might be' another 'may be' and then finished off with a 'I suspect that it may be...'

I think some people really REALLY hate to see posters speculating. So much so that they feel contempt for anyone who does.

But I'll try to give you the benefit of any doubt if I can and ask you if I have misinterpreted the intention of your own post in reply to me? If I have then I apologise and take it back. Did you really think I was trying to present myself as an 'expert' who was interpreting a scene as fact to other posters?
If you do then you're so wide off the mark.
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Old 02-01-2017, 22:55
Michael_Eve
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Very good point.

I was wondering it could have been a faked death. To keep Mary safe for example if she's in danger and the real killer thinks she's already dead.
But that would mean that some of the final scenes wouldn't make sense dramatically, because then the characters would only be acting sad for the benefit of the viewer as if they've taken into account that they are in a fictional drama being shown on television.

But yes, a pregnant woman sacrificing her baby over Sherlock just doesn't make sense. There would be a subconscious instinct for her to prevent herself from doing that even if she thought that she wanted to.
She wouldn't be just sacrificing herself, she would be sacrificing her unborn baby for the sake of Sherlock, which I'm doubtful there'd be enough compulsion for her to do.
I think she's dead. Instinct took over at the time, maybe? She had fierce loyalty to her violent old muckers back in the day, and obviously she cared for Sherlock. (She wasn't pregnant, but has got a baby daughter, btw)
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Old 02-01-2017, 22:58
oxfordruse
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Very good point.

I was wondering it could have been a faked death. To keep Mary safe for example if she's in danger and the real killer thinks she's already dead.
But that would mean that some of the final scenes wouldn't make sense dramatically, because then the characters would only be acting sad for the benefit of the viewer as if they've taken into account that they are in a fictional drama being shown on television.

But yes, a pregnant woman sacrificing her baby over Sherlock just doesn't make sense. There would be a subconscious instinct for her to prevent herself from doing that even if she thought that she wanted to.
She wouldn't be just sacrificing herself, she would be sacrificing her unborn baby for the sake of Sherlock, which I'm doubtful there'd be enough compulsion for her to do.
BIB... er, what?
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Old 02-01-2017, 23:03
Alrightmate
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It was to get the attention od the cabin crew, in order to give them the feeling that she was an anxious flyer (people who are anxious or scared often talk too much/talk gibberish and American was just a cover). She then did the 'oh my god, I'm dying' routine, knowing that they would take care of her sympathetically. She also picked the member of crew who looked similar enough for her to imitate.
But why, why, and why?
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Old 02-01-2017, 23:05
Alrightmate
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also - what year is this series in now ?

.
Unbelievably it's in its 7th year now.
I can hardly believe it. Doesn't time fly?
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Old 02-01-2017, 23:08
Alrightmate
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I'm not enjoying this very bored I think Sherlock is a lot better without too many female characters they kind of ruin it.
I don't know about that. I particularly enjoyed the episode where we got to learn more about Mrs Hudson and her past life. In fact I'd warm to the series more if she was featured more, and perhaps they can do more with Molly.
For me it's more about what they actually do with the characters.
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