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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3) |
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#976 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Then explain to me how Magnusson revealing where the archive was did not put his life at risk.
Holmes knew where the archive was perhaps even earlier than the restaurant scene but he had to be sure. He knew Magnusson couldn't resist showing off to the great Sherlock Holmes. Once Holmes had been arrested, it would be easy enough for Magnusson to say that there in fact was a secret vault somewhere after all which would blow wide open on his death. Because no one really knew if that was true or not (apart from Holmes), it would still be too risky to kill him. A similar puzzle to Irene Adlers password on her phone - if you don't know what's true, then nothing is true. Anyway, in magnussons plan, Holmes would have been severely disgraced and discredited - making his word less creditable. Also, he was an audacious man, doing things that no other person would consider. He felt invincible. He also didn't know that Holmes is in fact a sociopath which was a fatal error. |
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#977 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,689
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Well, I thought it was a brilliant episode, full of fizz and energy and most of all with a lot of Andrew Scott, whose Moriarty I loved. Mrs. Hudson and Molly were a joy, as was Mycroft 'Mike' Holmes. The last episode showed the reason that the Holmes parents had to be introduced, and also shows that the parents aren't quite so ordinary after all.
I loved the junkie Sherlock-protegee and hope he comes back too. I think Mary's capabilities will be very useful to the Boys in the future, and Sherlock hasn't been canon Conan Doyle at any point anyway. Whatever the holes in the plot, the writers and actors have created some fabulously engaging characters, and what more could you ask from a TV entertainment? Much satisfied. |
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#978 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 200
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Even if it's played for laughs? One of Moffat's favourite motifs is men being physically assaulted by woman, for laughs. Happens all the time in 'Doctor Who'.
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#979 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,484
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But he hadn't told anyone where the vault was. It wasn't until he was boasting to Sherlock that he confirmed anything about the vault. It was still supposition. And as another poster had pointed out there was no guarantee there wasn't any copies anywhere.
I wouldn't tell anyone they were in my cellar or in a secret location just like he didn't. He could have stormed he joint if he thought that. |
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#980 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 17,128
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Another problem I have with this show is how easily Sherlock is fooled now. Two characters outsmarted the world's greatest detective in one episode? Come on!
Onto the positive stuff. Did anyone else think CAM was an awesome character? Some may consider him a villain but he was more of a ruthless yet very smart businessman. He was extremely creepy as well. Licking a woman's face, pissing in a fireplace and flicking John's face? LOL! And he's dead.... Just like John Simm in DW we're supposed to see him as a maniac, but I just see someone being asked to overact.
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#981 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,442
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They were though. Mycroft was terrified at the thought of Sherlock investigating Magnusson.
He was frightened of him, when he could easily have 'sorted him out'. I liked the episode but the Appledore /Magnusson premise I thought was a weakness. Magnusson knew secrets so he got his own way. But if he went too far or divulged the secrets then Mycroft and co would take him out. But Mycroft and co would only take him out if he crossed the line because there were secrets that they didn't want getting out. Mycroft's role was to keep the secrets secret and Magnusson knew that as long as kept to the right side of the line he would be left alone. They were worried that Sherlock's probing would push Magnusson over the edge and make him reveal things that they didn't want revealed. |
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#982 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Taedet animam meam vitae
Posts: 40,368
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So they didn't need Sherlock to sort this one they could have got Grant Mitchell.
In essence, if I was of a cynical disposition, I'd be suggesting that Moffatt has latched onto the "Lost" methodology of just chucking in wtf moments to gloss over plot inadequacies. |
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#983 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,442
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Quote:
Another problem I have with this show is how easily Sherlock is fooled now. Two characters outsmarted the world's greatest detective in one episode? Come on!
Onto the positive stuff. Did anyone else think CAM was an awesome character? Some may consider him a villain but he was more of a ruthless yet very smart businessman. He was extremely creepy as well. Licking a woman's face, pissing in a fireplace and flicking John's face? LOL! And he's dead.... |
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#984 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
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ETA I know I'm banging on about Appledore.
I did enjoy the programme - most of it good and some of it scintillating ![]() ... so don't lump me in with the usual trolls and kranks on here! |
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#985 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,764
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He was a psychopath and couldn't resist showing off to Holmes.
Holmes knew where the archive was perhaps even earlier than the restaurant scene but he had to be sure. He knew Magnusson couldn't resist showing off to the great Sherlock Holmes. Once Holmes had been arrested, it would be easy enough for Magnusson to say that there in fact was a secret vault somewhere after all which would blow wide open on his death. Because no one really knew if that was true or not (apart from Holmes), it would still be too risky to kill him. A similar puzzle to Irene Adlers password on her phone - if you don't know what's true, then nothing is true. Anyway, in magnussons plan, Holmes would have been severely disgraced and discredited - making his word less creditable. Also, he was an audacious man, doing things that no other person would consider. He felt invincible. He also didn't know that Holmes is in fact a sociopath which was a fatal error. If the conclusion is: Magnusson was overconfident I guess we can agree on that. On reflection Magnusson may have had a number of mind palaces but his deductive reasoning was well below par. |
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#986 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,683
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What did he say?
Additionally Mycroft declares at the start of the episode that Magnusson is under his protection. From this we can assume one of two things - he's useful enough for Mycroft to want him kept around or he has enough dirt on people that he's able to keep himself secure. Or indeed both of the above. |
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#987 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
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The actor can act more menacing than the children's entertainer that is Moriarty. A waste really.
Just like John Simm in DW we're supposed to see him as a maniac, but I just see someone being asked to overact. ![]() And ,for a mysterious criminal mastermind, at the centre of a web of crime it felt very Dr Evil or even Dr Who , really felt out of place. |
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#988 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,752
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Daily Mail review
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...twist-far.html Quote:
That just doesn’t work. What’s the point of having the most elegant intellect on the planet if you end up pulling a trigger like any dumb thug? I also think that the Moriarty reveal felt a bit too cartoonish and implausible, and the way it was done seemed better suited to a comic book superhero film. It felt more like Batman using his batsignal projection in the sky. I wouldn't have had it revealed on television like that. I'd had have preferred it to be more subtle and ambiguous. One or two messages in the disguised voice sent to Sherlock or Moriarty and to be just left there to leave us hanging.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...#ixzz2qELF9wQ6 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Apart from those two criticisms, sadly right at the end, I found it to be a wonderful episode and I'm extremely happy about Moriarty being back. |
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#989 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,591
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Irene Adler outsmarted Holmes in the original books. He wasn't infallible.
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#990 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9,779
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Better, but in a detective series lasting 4.5 hours of telly I can't remember much detecting actually taking place.
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#991 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,442
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I think Holmes had Magnusson rumbled from the time he realised that the glasses were a red herring. He just needed to be sure which is why he set out to make Magnusson think he'd won so he would become over confident and start boasting.
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#992 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Taedet animam meam vitae
Posts: 40,368
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Irene Adler outsmarted Holmes in the original books. He wasn't infallible.
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#993 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,842
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If the conclusion is: Magnusson was overconfident I guess we can agree on that.
On reflection Magnusson may have had a number of mind palaces but his deductive reasoning was well below par. He did say he wasn't a killer and he even had men standing by to pull John out of the bonfire. He thought Holmes was like him, but Holmes surprised him by being a cold blooded murderer. |
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#994 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
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During the scene where Sherlock and Mycroft are smoking together he outlines that Magnusson never causes too much damage to anyone important and is occasionally useful. Therefore not only is he not a problem for the Government (hence them not sending someone in to get rid of him) but he's actually useful to them every now and again. Perhaps quite similarly to Sherlock himself.
Additionally Mycroft declares at the start of the episode that Magnusson is under his protection. From this we can assume one of two things - he's useful enough for Mycroft to want him kept around or he has enough dirt on people that he's able to keep himself secure. Or indeed both of the above. Well it doesn't take a genius to realise that works the other way and that by going after Mary you take on Mycroft. Magnusson was evil and snakelike but in the end he was an idiot who couldn't see the bleeding obvious and who solved Holmes case for him with his big mouth. |
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#995 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,683
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The problem with this though is that Magnusson says that Mycrofts pressure point is Holmes, Holmes is Watson and Watson's is Mary.
Well it doesn't take a genius to realise that works the other way and that by going after Mary you take on Mycroft. Magnusson was evil and snakelike but in the end he was an idiot who couldn't see the bleeding obvious and who solved Holmes case for him with his big mouth. |
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#996 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,752
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The post you quoted had no hatred or derision. It's interesting that you think it's wrong of me to suggest that Moff orders his other writers to follow his plan for the series as a whole. He can't have anyone mixing up his 12 or so narrative threads, after all.
If he didn't do that wouldn't you be criticising him for bad plotting and continuity being thrown out of the window. Moffat and Gatiss work together closely on this so isn't it more natural and make a lot of sense for them to work closely together on the writing? |
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#997 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,842
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But this assumes that Mycroft can be a truly independent actor and as the final scenes of the episode demonstrated he can't. At least not in all things. Mycroft may very well have wanted to take Magnusson out but that decision may also have been out of his hands.
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#998 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,591
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And it left him profoundly disturbed. Now it's 'yeah, someone fooled me. Where's my gun'.
In fact I was waiting for exactly that criticism off some on here - that this was a copy of Curtains, but apparently the critics don't know their Christie. |
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#999 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 691
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I liked the episode even though I moaned a lot about Mary.
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#1000 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
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And certainly Mycroft values his job and position very highly indeed. He is also sanguine about his little brother and perhaps realised he can only protect him so much.
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