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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 12-01-2014, 23:47
scumcat
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That was a brilliant 90 minutes of TV.

Thank you, Moffat. You can definitely write another one, if you want. And don't leave it so long, next time! (I just wish you'd condensed the first 2 episodes into one, then we could have had another good episode, but too late now, end of series).

Please can someone clarify for me - what was the significance of Redbeard? I know it's a dog, but so what?

And do we know, who the other one that Mycroft referred to is? )I'm assuming that it's something for next series, but I may have missed a reference).

Btw, just because someone plasters Moriarty's image everywhere, doesn't mean it's actually Moriarty who did it. (I hope it is, I love him).

I also like Mary, so to all those who say she should butt out, I say, same to you.

And John Watson is the sweetest, nicest character on TV.

Magnusson chuckled when he saw redbeard on the list of sherlocks pressure points. It turned out that redbeard was sherlocks childhood dog that had been put to sleep. Sherlock used this image in his mind palace to remain calm and to stop himself going into shock. I think.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:47
The Gatherer
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Holmes was quite happy for his bessie mate to stay married to Mary even though she had cold bloodily attempted to kill Janine??? And how did Janine get better so quickly???

(And it was a massive co-incidence that Holmes and Watson broke into CAM's office at the same time as Mary.)
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:47
AlexiR
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He was able to get him off a murder charge !!!
By sending him to his death on an undercover mission.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:48
fefster
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He was able to get him off a murder charge !!!
To go on a suicide mission. That is why his colleague said Mycroft's solution was inhumane.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:48
RichmondBlue
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Firstly I did enjoy all three episodes. The acting was great and the production values were outstanding.
But (and I feel it's a fair "but") there does appear to be a widespread consensus in the media that Sherlock is above criticism. Reading some of the reviews, you would think it was a work of genius. I mean.."it's only January and we've probably already seen the best tv can offer in 2014"..really ?
There does seem an element of "The Emperor's New Clothes" about the whole thing. It was fun, we were led down one path, only to find it led nowhere. I enjoyed the tease, but couldn't help feeling that I was allowing them far more leeway in terms of plot and credibility than I'd ever done with any other drama series. Probably because I'd also fallen victim to the Sherlock myth ?
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:48
Semierotic
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The more I think about it, the more Sherlock shooting a guy in the head as a means to 'solving' the case sits uneasily with me.

Anyway, goodnight.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:48
jcafcw
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And it left him profoundly disturbed. Now it's 'yeah, someone fooled me. Where's my gun'.
If you remember what Magnusson said to Watson it was along the lines of he could reveal his wife's past at any time. This meant if he was either jailed or the Govt turned a blind eye as they had been doing he could destroy Watson's life at any moment - at any fit of pique.

So he decided that the only logical way to end the threat to Watson was to kill him. He had deduced, in my opinion, there was no physical evidence when he saw the glasses and he wanted to prove that to Mycroft and co. But the way that Magnusson was flicking and taunting Watson decided things for him.

He decided the only way for Watson's happiness was to be safeguarded was to kill Magnusson. It wasn't because he was fooled by him. As I had said he was genuinely admiring towards Adler's brilliance and she posed no further threat to Watson.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:48
Alrightmate
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In fairness you don't actually know how or if they've brought Moriarty back from the dead yet (the post-credit scene doesn't really prove anything) so to say it makes no sense is a little harsh.

I'd also suggest that its less that people are criticising the episode and more to do with much of the tone and content of that criticism which is far too often wrapped in attacks on one of the shows co-creators.
I think they have to bring him back now.
Once you set something like that up I think you pretty much have to run with it.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:48
solenoid
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During the scene where Sherlock and Mycroft are smoking together he outlines that Magnusson never causes too much damage to anyone important and is occasionally useful. Therefore not only is he not a problem for the Government (hence them not sending someone in to get rid of him) but he's actually useful to them every now and again. Perhaps quite similarly to Sherlock himself.

Additionally Mycroft declares at the start of the episode that Magnusson is under his protection. From this we can assume one of two things - he's useful enough for Mycroft to want him kept around or he has enough dirt on people that he's able to keep himself secure. Or indeed both of the above.
But he was able to infiltrate the top by the domino effect. From Mary to Mycroft. The blackmail link was deduced by Sherlock. Any system which is corrupted has a link of weaknesses. Even Mycroft should have seen that.

Is a "liable asset" so important to have when you have alternatives (Sherlock for starters) that are not liabilities?
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:49
fefster
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Holmes was quite happy for his bessie mate to stay married to Mary even though she had cold bloodily attempted to kill Janine??? And how did Janine get better so quickly???
Lol did you watch the same show as us?
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:49
catsitter
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Sherlock murdering Magnussen would probably have been enough to convince me never to watch this series again, but the return of Moriarty makes it certain. I didn't think the character was convincing at all.

Can someone please tell me that I misheard when I thought Sherlock said that Mary took the identity of a stillborn baby? How on earth would that work? There would be no birth certificate as the stillbirths register is a completely different thing from the birth register and the certificate would show it was a stillbirth.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:49
solenoid
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The more I think about it, the more Sherlock shooting a guy in the head as a means to 'solving' the case sits uneasily with me.

Anyway, goodnight.
It's the biggest cop out for a detective.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:50
Kapellmeister
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I think they have to bring him back now.
Once you set something like that up I think you pretty much have to run with it.
I suspect it's not Moriarty at all and would put money on it being Sherlock and Mycroft's other [evil] brother, mentioned in this episode.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:51
eggshell
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By sending him to his death on an undercover mission.
Really...in 6 months time when anything could happen and Mycroft as he did here, could talk them into something else.

Mycroft has already shown he can walk into an Eastern European prison and get Holmes out.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
Hetal
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I just remembered something else that's flawed.

Why at Appledore wasn't Sherlock or John searched for weapons yet at Baker Street they was? Or was it for convenience. Because you know...Plot progression and all that.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
jcafcw
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In the books Moriarty's brother is alluded to. It is unclear if there is one or not.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
Jerrica09
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Holmes was quite happy for his bessie mate to stay married to Mary even though she had cold bloodily attempted to kill Janine??? And how did Janine get better so quickly???
If she knew exactly where to shoot Sherlock to ensure he lived, I'm sure she knew how to incapacitate but not kill Janine.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
fefster
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Really...in 6 months time when anything could happen and Mycroft as he did here, could talk them into something else.

Mycroft has already shown he can walk into an Eastern European prison and get Holmes out.
Yes....so why did he do it then? God, I'm starting to sound like Sherlock, I have to stop.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
scumcat
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I really liked the series all three episodes. I don't want to analyse it or look for plot holes or slag off the makers. As I said to my wife half way through this is made in the uk and the world loves it. that'll do for me
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
eggshell
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By sending him to his death on an undercover mission.
By sending him to his death on an undercover mission.
Really...in 6 months time when anything could happen and Mycroft as he did here, could talk them into something else.

Mycroft has already shown he can walk into an Eastern European prison and get Holmes out
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
Cheetah666
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I suspect it's not Moriarty at all and would put money on it being Sherlock and Mycroft's other [evil] brother, mentioned in this episode.
More likely its Moriarty's brother, he definitely had one in the Conan Doyle books.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
AlexiR
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But he was able to infiltrate the top by the domino effect. From Mary to Mycroft. The blackmail link was deduced by Sherlock. Any system which is corrupted has a link of weaknesses. Even Mycroft should have seen that.

Is a "liable asset" so important to have when you have alternatives (Sherlock for starters) that are not liabilities?
But Sherlock isn't useful in the same way as someone like Magnusson would be. They offer different things and presumably to different people. Again we can't always assume that Mycroft is an independent actor at all times.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:52
solenoid
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Sherlock murdering Magnussen would probably have been enough to convince me never to watch this series again, but the return of Moriarty makes it certain. I didn't think the character was convincing at all.

Can someone please tell me that I misheard when I thought Sherlock said that Mary took the identity of a stillborn baby? How on earth would that work? There would be no birth certificate as the stillbirths register is a completely different thing from the birth register and the certificate would show it was a stillbirth.
The stillborn baby would have had a still-birth certificate which could not then be used as a certificate for a living person. It made no sense.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:53
Mood Indigo
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I'm not well acquainted with the original books but know most of the popular stories from previous screen adaptations. The first two series were based on recognisable Conan Doyle's storylines. Do we owe anything in series three to him or are the writers now making it up as they go along?
There are plenty of nods to the source material.

Episode one in the series Empty Herse, nod to the first adventure in the Return of Sherlock Holmes, The Empty House.

Episode two, the Sign of Three, nod to The Sign of Four.

The main villain in this series, Charles Augustus Magnussen is based on Conan Doyle's Short story, the Adventures of Charles Augustus Milverton. Milverton was a horrible blackmailer of society types.
He blackmailed Lady Eva Blackwell over compromising letters she had written to a former love.
In the story, as a means of getting into Milverton's home, Holmes takes up a job as a plumber/ an odd job man, and has a fling with the housemaid going as far as getting engaged. Holmes finds out where Milverton keeps the letters, papers, secrets etc he uses to blackmail people; and he and Watson eventually break into Milverton's study at night. As Holmes opens the safe Milverton, who they thought was asleep, comes into the study so Holmes and Watson hide behind a curtain. Milverton is meeting a "maid" offering to sell her mistresses' compromising letters. However, in fact this woman is
one of Milverton's former victims, whose husband died when she wouldn't pay him. She shoots him and Holmes let her get away with it.

Another example from tonight is also a nod to another short story, "The Man with the Twisted Lip". In that story, Watson is called upon to help by a friend of his wife, a Mrs St Clair, who's husband Neville has gone missing. Neville is an opium addict. Watson searches the opium dens for him and whilst there finds Holmes in the den, disguised. Holmes says he is undercover on another case. Actually this is one of my favourite short stories as it has a very good twist.

That's just a few examples.

That was a brilliant 90 minutes of TV.

Thank you, Moffat. You can definitely write another one, if you want. And don't leave it so long, next time! (I just wish you'd condensed the first 2 episodes into one, then we could have had another good episode, but too late now, end of series).

Please can someone clarify for me - what was the significance of Redbeard? I know it's a dog, but so what?

And do we know, who the other one that Mycroft referred to is? )I'm assuming that it's something for next series, but I may have missed a reference).

Btw, just because someone plasters Moriarty's image everywhere, doesn't mean it's actually Moriarty who did it. (I hope it is, I love him).

I also like Mary, so to all those who say she should butt out, I say, same to you.

And John Watson is the sweetest, nicest character on TV.
I loved this episode. I won't lie, I grinned like a Cheshire Cat when I saw Moriarty in Sherlock's mind palace and actually screamed with delight at the end……Have I missed you Moriarty…..honey hell yes.

I'm going to see Andrew Scott in a play at the Royal Court later this year….I can't tell you how excited I am

Everyone run for your lives!!! The Doctor Who forum has escaped!!!
Ain't that the truth
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:54
solenoid
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But Sherlock isn't useful in the same way as someone like Magnusson would be. They offer different things and presumably to different people. Again we can't always assume that Mycroft is an independent actor at all times.
Nothing would have a use if the most powerful man in the country (Mycroft) had to defer to Magnusson. It would put the nation's security at risk. It was made clear when Magnusson first met Sherlock that he had little regard for England. Indeed it verged on the dislike.
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