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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 12-01-2014, 23:55
Kapellmeister
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Firstly I did enjoy all three episodes. The acting was great and the production values were outstanding.
But (and I feel it's a fair "but") there does appear to be a widespread consensus in the media that Sherlock is above criticism. Reading some of the reviews, you would think it was a work of genius. I mean.."it's only January and we've probably already seen the best tv can offer in 2014"..really ?
There does seem an element of "The Emperor's New Clothes" about the whole thing. It was fun, we were led down one path, only to find it led nowhere. I enjoyed the tease, but couldn't help feeling that I was allowing them far more leeway in terms of plot and credibility than I'd ever done with any other drama series. Probably because I'd also fallen victim to the Sherlock myth ?
The critical response has been bizarre, not because it's been largely positive but because the praise has been so completely uncritical. As you say, the same basic story transferred into another series wouldn't have received anywhere near the same praise as it was neither interesting enough or original enough. For example, the moral dubiousness of Sherlock executing Magnusson to protect Watson's cosy family life isn't even mentioned.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:56
Welsh-lad
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I liked the episode even though I moaned a lot about Mary.
Yeah she is verrrryyy annoying.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:56
16caerhos
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I was really looking forward to seeing more of Magnussen, but instead he ends up getting shot in the head during his first full episode, which I find incredibly disappointing.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:56
The Gatherer
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Lol did you watch the same show as us?
Lol, lol, lol - then rather than a stupid comment why not answer the points I raised and correct me?
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:56
AlexiR
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Really...in 6 months time when anything could happen and Mycroft as he did here, could talk them into something else.

Mycroft has already shown he can walk into an Eastern European prison and get Holmes out
Its about perception.

Mycroft may very well have been able to save Sherlock further down the line (although remember he only did that in episode one because it was convenient/necessary for him to do so) but that's not necessarily an eventuality anyone else involved in the decision would have been thinking about. Instead they'd be thinking that they're able to leverage this murder charge into getting Sherlock to agree to do something they want him to do (and indeed Mycroft to agree to it as well). Also we should probably assume that Mycroft's ability to save or rescue Sherlock would have been part of his 'six month survival' prediction.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:57
Kapellmeister
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In the books Moriarty's brother is alluded to. It is unclear if there is one or not.
He's mentioned in this episode, conveniently preparing the way for his arrival in the next series. No, Moriarty isn't back. It's Sherlock's other brother playing mind games with him.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:57
jcafcw
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Nothing would have a use if the most powerful man in the country (Mycroft) had to defer to Magnusson. It would put the nation's security at risk. It was made clear when Magnusson first met Sherlock that he has little regard for England.
Think of the way our Prime Ministers have had cosy relationships with Rupert Murdoch.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:57
scumcat
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The critical response has been bizarre, not because it's been largely positive but because the praise has been so completely uncritical. As you say, the same basic story transferred into another series wouldn't have received anywhere near the same praise as it was neither interesting enough or original enough. For example, the moral dubiousness of Sherlock executing Magnusson to protect Watson's cosy family life isn't even mentioned.
Not strictly true the mail and metro have ripped it to shreds
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:58
Sad_BB_Addict
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More reviews

Independent
Intelligence, humour and obscure fanboy references galore as Sherlock finale delivers the goods
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-9054365.html


Guardian
With a newspaper proprietor villain, twist upon twist and a shattering of all that gooey love stuff from last week, surely this final episode of the series has won the doubters over
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...e-his-last-vow
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:58
Semierotic
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I like the way the Holmes mother only looks about 10-15 years older than Mycroft.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:58
solenoid
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The critical response has been bizarre, not because it's been largely positive but because the praise has been so completely uncritical. As you say, the same basic story transferred into another series wouldn't have received anywhere near the same praise as it was neither interesting enough or original enough. For example, the moral dubiousness of Sherlock executing Magnusson to protect Watson's cosy family life isn't even mentioned.
Magnusson was above the law because he could blackmail those who'd sit in judgement in court so - with such a corrupt system in place - the only logical ending for a man with no physical archive - was death. It was just a question of who pulled the trigger.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:58
fefster
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Lol, lol, lol - then rather than a stupid comment why not answer the points I raised and correct me?
Because your post didn't make sense and I'm tired and I can't type any more explanations. In fact, I think I'll go to sleep before I get even grumpier
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:59
CAMERA OBSCURA
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Better, but in a detective series lasting 4.5 hours of telly I can't remember much detecting actually taking place.
Something I have noticed myself. Sherlock's detective work now seems strictly confined to just looking at people, where is the metaphorical 'deerstalker and eyeglass' detective work.

Thread bare plotting story wise with a just ignore how we get there mentality. It all looks nice and is superbly directed, edited and shot, really high class production all round, stunningly so, but in terms of actual detective work, you know Sherlock Holmes, maybe this isn't the show for that anymore.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:59
eggshell
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By sending him to his death on an undercover mission.
Its about perception.

Mycroft may very well have been able to save Sherlock further down the line (although remember he only did that in episode one because it was convenient/necessary for him to do so) but that's not necessarily an eventuality anyone else involved in the decision would have been thinking about. Instead they'd be thinking that they're able to leverage this murder charge into getting Sherlock to agree to do something they want him to do (and indeed Mycroft to agree to it as well). Also we should probably assume that Mycroft's ability to save or rescue Sherlock would have been part of his 'six month survival' prediction.


Hmm, I'm sure there is a weakness in your argument..ah yes..here we go. I think...OH LOOK ITS MORIARTY !!
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:59
The Gatherer
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If she knew exactly where to shoot Sherlock to ensure he lived, I'm sure she knew how to incapacitate but not kill Janine.
Well Holmes and Watson were pretty sure Janine was in a very bad way when they found her (and the other guy was dead).... and Holmes is supposed to know what he is doing and Watson is a doctor.
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Old 12-01-2014, 23:59
Kapellmeister
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More likely its Moriarty's brother, he definitely had one in the Conan Doyle books.
I think it's too much of a coincidence that Sherlock's brother was mentioned in tonight's episode along with something suspicious happening to him. "You know what happened to him", or whatever Mycroft said.
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:00
solenoid
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Think of the way our Prime Ministers have had cosy relationships with Rupert Murdoch.
The use of a newspaper proprietor was telling for the BBC! But the amount of power wielded by Murdoch is minuscule compared to Magnusson!
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:00
scumcat
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Lol, lol, lol - then rather than a stupid comment why not answer the points I raised and correct me?
Weren't you also arguing with everyone about how much you hated Dr Who on Christmas night. Why do you watch all this stuff you don't like? I haven't got the time.
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:01
MissWalford
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More likely its Moriarty's brother, he definitely had one in the Conan Doyle books.
He'll probably walk out of Sherlocks shower and say "Hi Honey!"
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:01
planets
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i sort of enjoyed it, but all the way through i was painfully aware that it is the acting of Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman that make the programme work for me.

I won't repeat criticisms that have been posted already but things in the writing really annoy me; an example would be in episode two Mary, as a doctor's receptionist, announcing each patient with their ailment for comedic effect drove me bonkers, that never happens and i found it tiresome. It wasn't needed to show the tedium of John's day.

i guess i am a lone voice in that i don't like the portrayal of Moriaty, it is overly hammy for my tastes.

To end on a positive note though i do like Holmes and Watson their chemistry and performance really make the show for me, without them i doubt the programme would be the success it is...
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:03
AlexiR
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Nothing would have a use if the most powerful man in the country (Mycroft) had to defer to Magnusson. It would put the nation's security at risk. It was made clear when Magnusson first met Sherlock that he had little regard for England. Indeed it verged on the dislike.
But would he have to defer to Magnusson? Mycroft tells us that Magnusson is smart enough not to target anyone too powerful thus not cause problems. Certainly he might like to make use of Mycroft on occasion but not all the time. Equally in the scene you mention (in which he shows no regard for England) he talks about how he uses England as a test run for 'proper' countries. Maybe this was all just a test run to see how far he could go elsewhere.
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:03
solenoid
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TV:Miss me?
Audience: No. You've appeared in 2 of the 3 stories.
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:03
fefster
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Anyway, did Janine imply that Sherlock did not deliver the goods in the bedroom? Is he still a virgin then? Couldn't he have sex without emotion. Can't he use it as an experience for his mind palace?

I think he should give it a try at least, for research purposes.
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:04
solenoid
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Mycroft tells us that Magnusson is smart enough not to target anyone too powerful thus not cause problems.
He easily accepted the laptop - a shrewd man who didn't want to be part of something big would have dismissed Sherlock's gift.

There are reasons to think that Mycroft's acceptance of him may have less to do with believing him an asset and more to do with something seedy Mycroft has done.
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Old 13-01-2014, 00:04
The Gatherer
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Because your post didn't make sense and I'm tired and I can't type any more explanations. In fact, I think I'll go to sleep before I get even grumpier
Please don't just lie to justify your post - my post asked perfectly reasonable questions.
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