DS Forums

 
 

Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13-01-2014, 00:42
Rhumbatugger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80,211
thanks Alexi....not sure but Mary's pregnancy looked a good 6 or 7 months on at christmas
Mary says 'months of not speaking' or something, to John.

And Sherlock has recovered, so four to six months?
Rhumbatugger is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 13-01-2014, 00:43
Kapellmeister
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Taedet animam meam vitae
Posts: 40,368
It's not a case of 'why bother do anything else', it's that it was the ONLY way to stop Magnusson, once it was confirmed that he HAD the information and would use it to damage John, and that it was stored in his head.
So the comfort of Watson's family life was worth a man's life. I don't buy it personally. For me the stake wasn't big enough to justify the cost.
Kapellmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:43
eggshell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
I thought he did find him particularly repulsive? Wasn't there a speech(also in the trailer) indicating what a particularly (over and above the usual) evil nasty bastard he was?

I think it was all well signposted that Magnusson would have to die, and Sherlock's actions were completely in character. I'm glad that it was Sherlock who killed him, as it allows Mary to have her fresh start. Had she been successful with her original plan, her whole new life as Mrs Watson would be flawed.
My point was, why would a sociopath find him repulsive.

And we'll have to agree to disagree whether it's in character for Holmes to cold bloodedly execute a blackmailer.
eggshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:44
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,591
So the comfort of Watson's family life was worth a man's life. I don't buy it personally. For me the stake wasn't big enough to justify the cost.
And what about all the other lives Magnusson had ruined?
Cheetah666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:45
Welsh-lad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,483
Whilst then he may have affection for John and kill Magnusson he certainly wouldn't have found Magnusson repulsive..
yes he did. At the very start of the ep Sherlock tells Watson that he finds Magnusson more repulsive than any of the criminals or serial killers he's ever come across.

Or words to that effect anyway.
Welsh-lad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:45
InigoMontoya
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,541
My point was, why would a sociopath find him repulsive.
Isn't it in the nature of a sociopath to find everyone repulsive? It is not so great a stretch to find some even more so than usual.
InigoMontoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:49
eggshell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
So the comfort of Watson's family life was worth a man's life. I don't buy it personally. For me the stake wasn't big enough to justify the cost.
To be fair it was Mary's life that was at stake.

I too don't buy it..Holmes could have told Magnusson that if Mary dies he dies.
eggshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:49
Rhumbatugger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80,211
So the comfort of Watson's family life was worth a man's life. I don't buy it personally. For me the stake wasn't big enough to justify the cost.
Firstly the stake was not only John, but it was hinted that it was Mycroft as well - and of course the lady at the beginning said that everyone was scared of him and there was an ongoing enquiry about Magnussons influence on the Government.

Seems big enough for me.

Especially when you factor in Sherlock's personal hatred of Magnusson, and how brilliantly and disgustingly he was played - especially that bit where he demonstrated his power by flicking John's face.

I think it worked fine.
Rhumbatugger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:49
Vicky0uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 1,395
Yes, is that why Sherlock allowed Magnusson to 'flick' John in that incredibly demeaning and arrogant way?

To allow himself to work himself up, to pysch himself up, to shoot Magnusson.

That one small incident with John truly showed what sort of person Magnusson was
Vicky0uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:50
aggs
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 13,160
And what about all the other lives Magnusson had ruined?
There was a newspaper headline shown saying that Lord Smallwood had committed suicide.
aggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:51
Welsh-lad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,483
And what about all the other lives Magnusson had ruined?
Yes exactly - I took the inference that Sherlock knew of some of the atrocious things magnusson had done.
This was implied by his damning and emphatic speech to Watson about magnusson.
Sherlock was also so compliant and repsectful, even when Magnusson was pissing into his fire-grate, it suggested he was frightened of him.
Welsh-lad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:51
Rhumbatugger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80,211
Is that why Sherlock allowed Magnusson to 'flick' John in that incredibly demeaning and arrogant way?

To allow himself to work himself up, to pysch himself up, to shoot Magnusson.

That one small incident with John truly showed what sort of person Magnusson was
I thought it was brilliant, horrifying and brilliant.
Rhumbatugger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:52
eggshell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
Yes he's a thoroughly bad sort..let's kill him.


And as far as threatening Mary, he already knows what she's capable off and was cowering before her in his apartment.

Why the hell would he think she wouldn't come after him again.

Sherlock could have said, one peep and we let Mary loose again
eggshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:52
Welsh-lad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,483
Firstly the stake was not only John, but it was hinted that it was Mycroft as well - and of course the lady at the beginning said that everyone was scared of him and there was an ongoing enquiry about Magnussons influence on the Government.

Seems big enough for me.

Especially when you factor in Sherlock's personal hatred of Magnusson, and how brilliantly and disgustingly he was played - especially that bit where he demonstrated his power by flicking John's face.

I think it worked fine.
Yes precisely.
Welsh-lad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:53
Rhumbatugger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80,211
Yes he's a thoroughly bad sort..let's kill him.
Well, if he could have been stopped in any other way...

But, yep, thoroughly bad sort.
Rhumbatugger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:53
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,591
Agree with aggs and Welsh Lad. We know one man committed suicide because of him, we know Sherlock found him uniquely repulsive and hateful before he even knew about Mary and the hold he had over her. Its not a stretch at all to me that he would have killed him.
Cheetah666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:54
Mood Indigo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A Town Called Malice
Posts: 3,915
I'm not worried about it at all. As a poster further upthread said, even POIROT killed a manipulator, because the damage some cause is untenable. In cold blood as well.

I agree with this. I also think that it had to be done, there was no other way, and I can easily swallow that Magnusson didn't see Sherlock as a killer, but as a mental genius as he was himself, and because of his arrogance, he couldn't resist 'showing off', to Sherlock, and couldnt BELIEVE that he was wrong about what Sherlock was prepared to do.
Yes I definitely see where you're coming from on this. Magnussen's arrogance was the catalyst to his own downfall.


Yes, I agree that in the short stories Sherlock often takes the course of justice over the course of the law: "I am not retained by the police to supply their deficiencies".

Two instances spring to mind from the wonderful ITV series:

in The Blue Carbuncle when Sherlock lets the snivelling thief off the hook:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAcQQefQeDY

(from 50.00 onwards)

and The Devil's Foot when Sherlock let's the murderer go free:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4s3tbzL9UA

(from 49.00 onwards)

Both examples beautifully played by Jeremy Brett. Watson is so often the voice of law and order. Holmes the voice of instinct and natural justice.

Ah yes thanks for the reminders. I was trying to think of some other examples of Holmes' natural justice.
Mood Indigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:56
Lorelei LaFleur
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,230

Magnusson was never presented as being 'evil' enough to warrant his execution.
Oh I don't know, I'd be tempted to dispose of him if he'd licked my face or pissed in my fireplace.
Lorelei LaFleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:57
eggshell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
Well, if he could have been stopped in any other way...

But, yep, thoroughly bad sort.
Just tell him you'll send Mary after him...he was pishing himself the first time she did.

It's only John being there that stopped her.
eggshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:58
InigoMontoya
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,541
Yes he's a thoroughly bad sort..let's kill him.
I didn't think that was the motivation at all. It was let's stop him. Arrest him? Doesn't work, he has too much power which he will continue to wield at the expense of Mary, John, Mycroft and many others. Neutralize him? How? Other than killing him or disabling his brain, there seems no way.

Actually, are we sure Magnussen's dead? Given all the earlier talk about how Mary knew exactly where to put the bullet to not kill Sherlock, would Sherlock have the same skill? Not that attempted murder would be that less serious a charge but...
InigoMontoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:59
anielled
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 926
Very very poor season. I now need to go and watch some Jeremy Brett episodes to remember how Sherlock should be acted and written. I'm not sure how it's even possible to make a bad Sherlock story but the BBC have done 3 in a row
anielled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 00:59
Rhumbatugger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80,211
Just tell him you'll send Mary after him...he was pishing himself the first time she did.

It's only John being there that stopped her.
I'd love Mary to have done it, and been killed herself an' all.

But we can't have it all, and I've got no problem with Sherlock doing the deed.
Rhumbatugger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 01:00
eggshell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
In fact the more I think of it the idea of CAM blackmailing an assassin the more silly it is.

"John, CAM is blackmailing me, can I kill him"

"Go on then, but it's the last one "
eggshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 01:00
The Gatherer
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,610
1. Sherlock did not take the view that Mary attempted to kill Janine. Janine was knocked out by an experienced killer who, if she wanted to kill Janine, would have done so.

2. Janine was not shot. She was a person knocked out, rendered unconscious, made supine, given the gift of a dream, coldc-ahem-ked, stunned, micky finned without a drink, having an enforced forty winks, daydreaming with prejudice, being helped to deep trance. She was not anywhere to being an Ex-Person.

So, she woke up with little or no damage. (Pretty sure she would otherwise have sold her concussion to the newspapers too.)
That explanation doesn't hold up because Mary clearly killed the other guy and both Holmes and Watson (a doctor) thought Janine was close to death. So yes, she was pretty near to being an ex person (by Mary's hand) and yet the next time we saw her she was perfectly fine.
The Gatherer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2014, 01:00
Molly_636
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 107
I didn't know about this series.. When first watching the first episode I really enjoyed it!
But as the episodes progressed it came to self aware to me.. more so than usual!! Like Moffatt was even more aware of the shows "star power"
It got to the point where I half expected Moffatt to have Martin reading The Hobbit in one scene just to get the point across!!

The only really great things about this series was Episode 1, the best in my opinion, and more Molly and Mycroft! I just love how Gatiss plays him!
Molly_636 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:41.