|
||||||||
Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3) |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#1176 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 923
|
Just to make another comment: I agree with those who find Moriarty a bit Pantomime Villain - I find the character really over the top, and I'm disappointed that he appears to have been ressurrected.
I'm convinced though that Mycroft uses him to keep Sherlock alive and occupied - maybe that will be the reveal at the end of the next series? I do like the relationship between Sherlock and Mycroft. I don't think Sherlock was "beaten" by CAM has some have said - he went to his place to make doubly sure that the files were in his head before destroying the files I.e: killing him...he didn't shoot him as a last resort, it was his plan all along; hence him making sure John had no gun on him, and waiting for witnesses to arrive first so that John couldn't be blamed. I think I say this every week! But, again, I think the two leads are absolutely brilliant in this - especially Martin Freeman, imo. They do allow the writers to get away with the odd weak episode, because their performances are so good.. But then, my humble point of view is that all TV shows have their weak episodes and their brilliant ones, and you either stick with the show, or you decide the weak points are outweighing the strong points and you give up on it... There's no right and wrong answer as to whether you should like something or not. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#1177 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
|
Quote:
Some people liked 'Vow' and some people didn't.
Here's a suggestion then. All the people who did not like Series 3 or its narrative trajectory might like to consider watching something else when the next series is shown. Anybody out there really think the absence of this group will make any difference to BBC commissioning policy ? |
|
|
|
|
|
#1178 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,345
|
Quote:
Just to make another comment: I agree with those who find Moriarty a bit Pantomime Villain - I find the character really over the top, and I'm disappointed that he appears to have been ressurrected.
I'm convinced though that Mycroft uses him to keep Sherlock alive and occupied - maybe that will be the reveal at the end of the next series? I do like the relationship between Sherlock and Mycroft. I don't think Sherlock was "beaten" by CAM has some have said - he went to his place to make doubly sure that the files were in his head before destroying the files I.e: killing him...he didn't shoot him as a last resort, it was his plan all along; hence him making sure John had no gun on him, and waiting for witnesses to arrive first so that John couldn't be blamed. I think I say this every week! But, again, I think the two leads are absolutely brilliant in this - especially Martin Freeman, imo. They do allow the writers to get away with the odd weak episode, because their performances are so good.. But then, my humble point of view is that all TV shows have their weak episodes and their brilliant ones, and you either stick with the show, or you decide the weak points are outweighing the strong points and you give up on it... There's no right and wrong answer as to whether you should like something or not. It can't have been to make Magnussen verbally admit there were no vaults - a search of the house would have determined that anyway. And, before all the witnesses turned up, he could surely have shot Magnussen and then claimed it was self-defence? Clearly asking John to bring his gun was an indication that Sherlock thought it might be needed, but I do think it was a last resort. When John asks Sherlock if he has a plan, he looks completely lost. It looked to me like he was playing through all the options - letting Magnussen flick John was him playing for time - before finally killing Magnussen. He would have known that the consequences for doing so were serious, so I don't see how it can have been his Plan A. |
|
|
|
|
#1179 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,345
|
I see there have been the usual arguments on here filling up the board overnight, so ...
I've included my link for my review on the Metro website again. Yes, I very much liked His Last Vow - let's get that out of the way. No, I don't think it was perfect, but I haven't expended any energy stripping down its (few) flaws. Instead in my review I've focussed on analysing some of the key points of the story itself, including a closer examination of the clues about Mary that the episode didn't mention. No over-the-top criticism. No over-the-top fanboyism. Just, you know, a review. http://slouchingtowardstv.com/2014/0...-his-last-vow/ |
|
|
|
|
#1180 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Leafy Ealing
Posts: 21,218
|
Quote:
There are plenty of nods to the source material.
Episode one in the series Empty Herse, nod to the first adventure in the Return of Sherlock Holmes, The Empty House. Episode two, the Sign of Three, nod to The Sign of Four. The main villain in this series, Charles Augustus Magnussen is based on Conan Doyle's Short story, the Adventures of Charles Augustus Milverton. Milverton was a horrible blackmailer of society types. He blackmailed Lady Eva Blackwell over compromising letters she had written to a former love. In the story, as a means of getting into Milverton's home, Holmes takes up a job as a plumber/ an odd job man, and has a fling with the housemaid going as far as getting engaged. Holmes finds out where Milverton keeps the letters, papers, secrets etc he uses to blackmail people; and he and Watson eventually break into Milverton's study at night. As Holmes opens the safe Milverton, who they thought was asleep, comes into the study so Holmes and Watson hide behind a curtain. Milverton is meeting a "maid" offering to sell her mistresses' compromising letters. However, in fact this woman is one of Milverton's former victims, whose husband died when she wouldn't pay him. She shoots him and Holmes let her get away with it. Another example from tonight is also a nod to another short story, "The Man with the Twisted Lip". In that story, Watson is called upon to help by a friend of his wife, a Mrs St Clair, who's husband Neville has gone missing. Neville is an opium addict. Watson searches the opium dens for him and whilst there finds Holmes in the den, disguised. Holmes says he is undercover on another case. Actually this is one of my favourite short stories as it has a very good twist. That's just a few examples. ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#1181 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 923
|
Quote:
I can see how you've come to this, but I have to say I didn't see that at all. If killing Magnussen had been Sherlock's plan all along, then why allow Magnussen to humiliate John and then wait for Mycroft and the police to show up?
It can't have been to make Magnussen verbally admit there were no vaults - a search of the house would have determined that anyway. And, before all the witnesses turned up, he could surely have shot Magnussen and then claimed it was self-defence? Clearly asking John to bring his gun was an indication that Sherlock thought it might be needed, but I do think it was a last resort. When John asks Sherlock if he has a plan, he looks completely lost. It looked to me like he was playing through all the options - letting Magnussen flick John was him playing for time - before finally killing Magnussen. He would have known that the consequences for doing so were serious, so I don't see how it can have been his Plan A. To me, John seemed surprised when Sherlock asked if he had his gun, and I suspect Sherlock knew full well that John wouldn't bring it to his parents' house. Sherlock often acts as though there's no way out of a predicament when he's actually waiting for the right moment to pull something out of the bag, and for me, waiting for the Helicopter to arrive saved John from being the only witness to what happened. I get why people may have wanted Sherlock to save the day in a more "clever" way, though - and I totally get, and respect, your take on it; in fact, this is the only episode of this series that I'll probably watch again to see if I change my mind! |
|
|
|
|
|
#1182 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 10,537
|
Quote:
But I stand by the fact that Sherlock just shooting Magnussen didn't sit well for me.
I know that some didn't mind, but I guess it's a matter of taste in the end. They write these things, they shouldn't find themselves writing Sherlock into a corner where the only way out is to shoot somebody in the head. As is Sherlock cruely toying with a lady's affection by getting engaged just to gain access to the blackmailers property...and Sherlock deciding not to report a woman for shooting someone. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1183 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 10,537
|
Quote:
It takes a few episodes to find its feet but it's not bad as a US police procedural. Not a patch on Sherlock though.
As a police procedural it's ok, but every week you can guess who done it well before Sherlock does even if you don't know how or why. In fact in several episodes you can say "They did it" as soon as the person appears on screen, in one show there were only two other actors in the show other than the regulars so they made it easy on you. : ) |
|
|
|
|
|
#1184 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,194
|
Surprised a few people thought that CAM had google glass type technology in his glasses. From the beginning I only saw it as a way of visualising his thoughts, like they've been so fond of doing with Sherlock this year. I guess that is why I was in no way surprised about the twist regarding the 'vaults' in the third act.
I do think that having Sherlock murder CAM was indeed a weak resolution. Sherlock should be outsmarting his enemies. Lars Mikkelsen gave a good performance, but let's face it, Magnussen was seriously over hyped. All this talk of a chilling new nemesis before the season even started, but in reality he was just a fairly routine (and even slightly under developed) bad-guy-of-the-week villain. I guess because this season was so antagonist-lite they had to make a big deal out of him... |
|
|
|
|
|
#1185 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,840
|
Quote:
I see there have been the usual arguments on here filling up the board overnight, so ...
I've included my link for my review on the Metro website again. Yes, I very much liked His Last Vow - let's get that out of the way. No, I don't think it was perfect, but I haven't expended any energy stripping down its (few) flaws. Instead in my review I've focussed on analysing some of the key points of the story itself, including a closer examination of the clues about Mary that the episode didn't mention. No over-the-top criticism. No over-the-top fanboyism. Just, you know, a review. http://slouchingtowardstv.com/2014/0...-his-last-vow/ |
|
|
|
|
|
#1186 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 19,737
|
Quote:
Surprised a few people thought that CAM had google glass type technology in his glasses. From the beginning I only saw it as a way of visualising his thoughts, like they've been so fond of doing with Sherlock this year. I guess that is why I was in no way surprised about the twist regarding the 'vaults' in the third act.
I do think that having Sherlock murder CAM was indeed a weak resolution. Sherlock should be outsmarting his enemies. Lars Mikkelsen gave a good performance, but let's face it, Magnussen was seriously over hyped. All this talk of a chilling new nemesis before the season even started, but in reality he was just a fairly routine (and even slightly under developed) bad-guy-of-the-week villain. I guess because this season was so antagonist-lite they had to make a big deal out of him... |
|
|
|
|
|
#1187 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,689
|
Quote:
As a police procedural it's ok, but every week you can guess who done it well before Sherlock does even if you don't know how or why. In fact in several episodes you can say "They did it" as soon as the person appears on screen, in one show there were only two other actors in the show other than the regulars so they made it easy on you. : )
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1188 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 85
|
I thought it was awful, just awful -a terrible waste of good characters and fine actors in a preposterous plot full of holes and completely lacking in tension. The "twists" were easy to guess. The direction was over the top. "sherlock" has become a pastiche of itself. So sad because it had the potential to be truly great.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1189 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,194
|
Quote:
I so agree. Seeing a character have power over people by knowing their secrets and weaknesses was instantly recognisable in real life with certain events that happened here in Britain over the past year; but someone having a weird fetish for licking and flicking faces to make him look even more threatening didn't cut it for me. I was expecting so much more than that lol.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1190 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,840
|
Quote:
I thought it was awful, just awful -a terrible waste of good characters and fine actors in a preposterous plot full of holes and completely lacking in tension. The "twists" were easy to guess. The direction was over the top. "sherlock" has become a pastiche of itself. So sad because it had the potential to be truly great.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1191 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 19,737
|
Anyway, one thing's for certain. Now we know why Moriarty had the Bee Gees' "Ha ha ha ha stayin' alive, stayin' alive, stayin' ali-hi-hi-ive!" tune on his mobile phone.
LOL! |
|
|
|
|
|
#1192 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,840
|
Quote:
Don't forget urinating in victim's living rooms
. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1193 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,503
|
Quote:
Surprised a few people thought that CAM had google glass type technology in his glasses. From the beginning I only saw it as a way of visualising his thoughts, like they've been so fond of doing with Sherlock this year. I guess that is why I was in no way surprised about the twist regarding the 'vaults' in the third act.
I do think that having Sherlock murder CAM was indeed a weak resolution. Sherlock should be outsmarting his enemies. Lars Mikkelsen gave a good performance, but let's face it, Magnussen was seriously over hyped. All this talk of a chilling new nemesis before the season even started, but in reality he was just a fairly routine (and even slightly under developed) bad-guy-of-the-week villain. I guess because this season was so antagonist-lite they had to make a big deal out of him... It wouldn't have made as interesting a storyline if everyone thought for certain all along that there were no vaults. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1194 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 19,737
|
I thought Bradley Wiggins was going to be in this episode.
![]() True that. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1195 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,372
|
It's fun reading the explanations people offer for self indulgent writing and whimsical plots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1196 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,981
|
Quote:
Don't forget urinating in victim's living rooms
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1197 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,981
|
Quote:
It's fun reading the explanations people offer for self indulgent writing and whimsical plots.
![]() Sherlock started out as a exceptionally intelligent crime and problem solver - he has now turned into a criminal himself. I don't know, maybe it is because I am getting older. I want to be entertained not spend hours wondering what the hell had just gone one - I love Sherlock and John Watson but I like them solving crimes that don't require a degree in psychology and philosophy to understand. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1198 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 564
|
Can everyone start rewatching the episodes to see if Moriarty was in the background anywhere? Hence, "did you miss me?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1199 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,981
|
Quote:
Can everyone start rewatching the episodes to see if Moriarty was in the background anywhere? Hence, "did you miss me?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1200 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Wilderness
Posts: 13,088
|
Was Janine buying/moving in to Holmes' retirement cottage?
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:52.






.
