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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 13-01-2014, 11:25
LanceWilkins
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Sherlock has been a very successful popular series (9m viewers approx). All one can say is, "Well done!"
But I've never really got into it -- some I've never watched to the end. Perhaps the second time round I may get it.
Certainly I have a minority opinion in not appreciating the success that it so obviously has.
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:41
henry_hope
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Also Im glad the Mary/John relationship is not going to be a conventional marriage.We get so many detective stories with two male pals and women who are appendages. This is going to be a completely different dynamic i hope.
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:41
moleymo
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Er she did fatally hurt him as he actually died. He only came back for John, and, despite the fact that she almost killed Sherlock for no reason at all, as she could have just left the building the way she came in and left him with Magnussen, he forgave her and so did John, which was somewhat unbelievable to me.

To me the emphasis on Mary has spoiled this series and her being pregnant was the end. John is married a number of times in Canon and never has any kids. I was hoping someone would kill her. When she suddenly sagged in his arms in Sherlock's Parents place, I got all excited thinking, oh great, someone's poisoned her and she's dying, but no-----

Was originally looking forward to more but I am not bothered now. I don't want to see a Mary and John and infant. It's not my idea of enjoyment. I have 10 kids and try to avoid pregnancy and infants in my viewing. My kids are fantastic but I like to escape when I watch TV.

I liked it when it was just John and Sherlock. His wives did not feature much in the original stories. I quite enjoyed the episodes but the first two series were, to me anyhow, far better. I don't like the John, Sherlock and murdering Mary scenario.

I hope Moriarty comes back and kills her.
I agree Mary could have walked away without shooting sherlock, he nearly died twice he was flatlineing she threatened him the second time again when she said she would do anything to stop John from finding out about her past she is cold hearted and selfish and a liar
The way she left Janine for dead was also disgusting I'm not a fan of Mary
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:45
Jennell_Sierako
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Also I'm glad the Mary/John relationship is not going to be a conventional marriage.We get so many detective stories with two male pals and women who are appendages. This is going to be a completely different dynamic i hope.
Oh it is definitely not conventional. She is a murderer who attempted to kill his best friend {will someone please explain why she shot him} and he doesn't even know her real name.

I can see that Mary almost killing Sherlock was a useful thing to get some drama into the story but plot wise I do not understand it.
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:47
henry_hope
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Ah, well John likes a bit of danger. He chose the army for a profession,he chose Sherlock for a friend and he chose Mary for his wife!
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:47
Benry_Gale
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http://imgur.com/qmB1KYx

Ahem.
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:52
divingbboy
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To be fair, we don't actually know if Moriaty is alive. That could have been video recorded before his death and set up now by his associates.
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:53
Yvie123
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I have to agree that the story created for Mary didn't quite fit her - I'd liked her character up to that point, but I just don't buy her as a CIA assassin or whatever she was supposed to be, and it seemed she would've killed Sherlock if she had to.
The affection Sherlock seemed to develop for her didn't work for me either - I understand him protecting her for John's sake, and even respecting/liking her - but by the end he seemed to have a genuine love for her, which, again, didn't fit who he is - for me, anyway.
Other than that, I haven't minded Mary, although, given Watson's history, I still can't see them having a happy ending.
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:54
gashead
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Oh it is definitely not conventional. She is a murderer who attempted to kill his best friend {will someone please explain why she shot him} and he doesn't even know her real name.

I can see that Mary almost killing Sherlock was a useful thing to get some drama into the story but plot wise I do not understand it.
I don't know if it actually makes sense - I recall not really following it at the time - but Sherlock does explain why she had to 'kill' him, rather than just disable him or walk away, in the scene where Mary finds Sherlock in that abandoned building (the one with her face on it). IIRC, it was something to do with Magnusson needing to believe she shot him dead. I seem to recall Sherlock saying she now had, or needed, a witness (although to what, and which one was the witness I'm not sure)?

Incidentally, how did Sherlock manage to convince Mary that he was standing in front of her? She could see John in shadow, and believed it was Sherlock, so did he throw his voice or something?
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:54
Granny McSmith
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Rule One - Moffat lies.
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Old 13-01-2014, 11:58
moleymo
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I don't know if it actually makes sense - I recall not really following it at the time - but Sherlock does explain why she had to 'kill' him, rather than just disable him or walk away, in the scene where Mary finds Sherlock in that abandoned building (the one with her face on it). IIRC, it was something to do with Magnusson needing to believe she shot him dead. I seem to recall Sherlock saying she now had, or needed, a witness (although to what, and which one was the witness I'm not sure)?

Incidentally, how did Sherlock manage to convince Mary that he was standing in front of her? She could see John in shadow, and believe it was Sherlock, but did he throw his voice or something?
Probably he phoned John and John put his phone on speaker phone it sounded distorted
Mary's explanation for shooting sherlock was that John was in the building and do if she shot magnisun dead John would be a suspect but that would have only made sense had she shot cam too, she then just knocked him out after shooting sherlock and apparently she's the good guy because she didn't shoot sherlock through the head and she called an ambulance so he had like a 1% chance to survive
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:05
BaileysIrish
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I can see that Mary almost killing Sherlock was a useful thing to get some drama into the story but plot wise I do not understand it.
I agree - simply more dramatic but didn't make a whole lot of sense. She was the one with the gun and could have just walked out. And if it was witnesses she didn't want, then not shooting to kill Sherlock and leaving Magnussen alive makes no sense either, despite Sherlock's explanation for it.

And yeah, she did threaten Sherlock again, so I don't like her much either.

While I think Moriarty should stay dead (double fake-out, really?), I much prefer his brand of psycho-nemesis over Magnussen.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:09
Residents Fan
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David Cameron can be voted out, people who hack phones can be brought to justice the normal way, (and several already have been).

There was no other option to deal with Magnusson, and its not like Sherlock didn't try to look for one. He tried the glasses, he tried to get M to reveal the whereabouts of evidence when he knew the authorities were tracking him. When he was certain that there was nothing that Magnusson could be prosecuted for, and that he was a threat to the life of Watson's pregnant wife, only then did he shoot him.

Its not that much different to Watson's decision to shoot the taxi driver in A Study in Pink. And its no different to Poirot's decision in Curtains.
Yeah, the shooting was the only way I can see that the writers
could get Watson and Holmes out of this.

I'm really disappointed Moriarty seems to be back though. He's always been the least interesting aspect of "Sherlock", and my heart sank after seeing the end of episode teaser.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:11
moleymo
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I agree - simply more dramatic but didn't make a whole lot of sense. She was the one with the gun and could have just walked out. And if it was witnesses she didn't want, then not shooting to kill Sherlock and leaving Magnussen alive makes no sense either, despite Sherlock's explanation for it.

And yeah, she did threaten Sherlock again, so I don't like her much either.

While I think Moriarty should stay dead (double fake-out, really?), I much prefer his brand of psycho-nemesis over Magnussen.
I wonder if sherlock is just playing Mary at her own game, maybe she is the big bad guy next series and moriaty is just a cover story, what were Mary's real initials on the USB drive that John threw in the fire?
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:12
Semierotic
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Some people liked 'Vow' and some people didn't.
Here's a suggestion then.

All the people who did not like Series 3 or its narrative trajectory might like to consider watching something else when the next series is shown.

Anybody out there really think the absence of this group will make any difference to BBC commissioning policy ?
Can people stop making useless posts like this? People are allowed to criticise the show. I mostly enjoyed the last ep but it had issues that are fine to point out.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:13
fiveinabed
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I thought the Moriarty bit at the end was some footage that Sherlock and an accomplice (Sherlock's new apprentice that he'd met at the crack-house) had cleverly set up in advance to be broadcast via jamming the TV networks, and which was pre-arranged to be used if Sherlock was arrested or sent away or whatever, in order to get Mycroft to summon him back.
The footage was a bit Max Headroomish, which is exactly as it would have been if it was put together from videoclips from Holmes's camera-phone or from Moriarty's previous TV or court appearances.
I'm sure he must have said "Did you miss me?" or "Miss me?" at least once when someone was trying to shoot him.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:15
boksbox
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I'm glad I'm not attached to Dr Who and Sherlock emotionally, as some people are, I just enjoy them, last night's was hugely enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, the Blu Ray sales will have at least one customer in me..
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:18
DJW13
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I enjoyed this episode and thought it was much better than the first two.

There were of course odd things that happened - like how Holmes and Watson were not searched when entering Appledore.

The other point was regarding the instructions from the helicopter. H&W were asked to stand away from Magnusson - I at first thought that this was so that they would not be in danger when he was shot by the police marksmen. Then Holmes suddenly finds the gun (which had been in Watson's coat?) and kills the villain - without being immediately killed himself. I know that Mycroft said "don't kill Holmes" but surely the reaction of a marksman would be to kill someone who not only produced a gun but used it?
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:20
catsitter
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I wonder if sherlock is just playing Mary at her own game, maybe she is the big bad guy next series and moriaty is just a cover story, what were Mary's real initials on the USB drive that John threw in the fire?
I think it was A. G. R. A.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:29
lady_xanax
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I don't see why Magnusson would have to visualise his 'files' in such great detail, as he basically says he can print whatever he want because he's press and needs no proof of details.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:30
StrictlyRed
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Just wanted to link this review from The Guardian before I go back to read 50 pages of posts!

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...ew-lucy-mangan

On The Ratings Thread there is also talk of the BBC trying to get a Christmas Special out of Steven Moffatt, but don't know how good this information is, as it originated in The Sun.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:30
BaileysIrish
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I think it was A. G. R. A.
The first thing I thought when seeing the initials is - AGGRAVATE. Heh.

Originally Posted by moleymo
I wonder if sherlock is just playing Mary at her own game, maybe she is the big bad guy next series and moriaty is just a cover story, what were Mary's real initials on the USB drive that John threw in the fire?
I could deal with that, but I think either Moriarty will actually be back, or it's someone else making it seem like Moriarty is back. Sherlock doing it to get out of his sure death assignment is as good a theory as any.

I'm reminded of Sherlock's mind palace piece where Moriarty says to him "no one bothers you when you're dead". Seems more pertinent given the ending credits. As does the Staying Alive ring tone.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:40
solenoid
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It's been a number of hours after the episode so I thought I'd add some comments.

1)Although Moriarty's image is used in a broadcast we do not know whether he ordered it to be broadcast. Or that he may have arranged for it to be broadcast before he died. Time will tell. It may be that he arranged for some bomb/gas to explode so many years after his death and Sherlock has to stop a sequence of events to save millions blah blah.

2)Why did Magnusson need to visit Sherlock to determine his pressure points if the glasses played no role?

3)I still think Magnusson was a liability for the government, more than asset. He had absolute power and that is never good. So as he didn't show any evidence of wanting to limit his own powers he had to go.

Put it this way: a government would always seek the weakness of its own assets in espionage and by not thoroughly investigating Magnusson's source of power they were at risk.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:45
margarite6666
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when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

I think it all now fits in. There was that photo/video of Mark Gatiss with Andrew Scott outside of the building where Sherlock 'jumped'. With Mycroft mentioning the 'other' brother I think it is fair odds we are dealing with Moriaty's twin.

Just think what someone like Mycroft could have done with him but it seems he might have lost control.
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Old 13-01-2014, 12:46
mychmose
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Like below. Ditto.

I missed him. Proper criminal mastermind. This new one who was billed as supreme evil was supreme shite.

Get Moriarty back. Get proper crimes to solve back. Stop the 'ooh we've written a hit' love in. Put Mary in the background. Stop trying to be funny (Cumberbatch and Freeman worked with their lines in S1&2 to make them subtly humorous, no need for the OTT scenes). Stop arsing about with flashbacks and non linear plots. Stop having about 12 things going on at once. Stop planting spoilers and thinking that that makes up for shite episodes because "all will become clear". Start writing a better series 4.
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