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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 14-01-2014, 03:15
marsch_labb
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If I'm not mistaken, he was trying to convince Magnussen (from afar to draw him out) that drugs was one of his "pressure points", which later Magnussen conveyed was not particularly convincing. He then showed the Watson-in-the-bonfire footage and said that was his real pressure point.

At least that's how I took it.

It is rather strange, as some have mentioned, that Sherlock wasn't listed as one of Watson's pressure points. I get that he'd already suffered his loss for two years, but still, it would seem to me that given how unbearable it was for Watson, he would do anything to prevent it from happening again - so still a pressure point. No matter, I guess.

I'm rewatching episode 3 now to see if I like it better upon rewatch - Magnussen just isn't very intimidating to me, even with the licking and the peeing. He was cowering like a beeyotch when Mary had him at gunpoint. Of course I'd be cowering too if someone had a gun on me, but then I'm not a mastermind criminal blackmailer with a powerful mind palace. I expect more from my villains, though. *shrugs*

Off the wall theory that I think has already been mentioned by someone after episode 2: What if everything up until just before the roof scene in the last series is all one big mind palace mind trip of Sherlock's as he's deciding how to deal with Moriarty? Given the end credits reveal, in his mind palace this whole imagined scenario that comprises series 3 comes back to Moriarty still being alive, and therefore needs to choose a different path - and that's what we'll see next season. Moriarty still alive...no faked death...and Sherlock trying to take a route that will take care of Moriarty for good.
That would be logical in two ways: first is the one you give. Second: when Sherlock said he was there for a case no one he knew believed him and he admited to having a drug problem. So yes, it was for a case but it was also a nice excuse to endulge his addiction, imo.

It would explain a lot of things, but if true, i don't know what i'll think
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Old 14-01-2014, 03:57
AlexiR
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It is rather strange, as some have mentioned, that Sherlock wasn't listed as one of Watson's pressure points...
Presumably this is because Watson is Sherlock's pressure point. Its no good using Sherlock to get to Watson if you have to use Watson to get to Sherlock.

I'm rewatching episode 3 now to see if I like it better upon rewatch - Magnussen just isn't very intimidating to me, even with the licking and the peeing. He was cowering like a beeyotch when Mary had him at gunpoint. Of course I'd be cowering too if someone had a gun on me, but then I'm not a mastermind criminal blackmailer with a powerful mind palace. I expect more from my villains, though. *shrugs*
Isn't the point though that he's not a physical threat? Its the way he takes and uses information that make him a threat.

Off the wall theory that I think has already been mentioned by someone after episode 2: What if everything up until just before the roof scene in the last series is all one big mind palace mind trip of Sherlock's as he's deciding how to deal with Moriarty? Given the end credits reveal, in his mind palace this whole imagined scenario that comprises series 3 comes back to Moriarty still being alive, and therefore needs to choose a different path - and that's what we'll see next season. Moriarty still alive...no faked death...and Sherlock trying to take a route that will take care of Moriarty for good.
It seems far too convoluted.

I could buy that the fall was part of Sherlock playing out possible scenarios but the idea that this playing out of scenarios would involve him continuing down that path for more than two fictional years complete inventing a wife for Watson (and a baby) and everything else is far too much. Plus it would be far too close to the 'it was just a dream' explanation and I can't see how the show would ever recover from that.
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Old 14-01-2014, 04:03
marsch_labb
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Ok, so....

The memory stick in Baker Street said : A.G.RA

The memory stick in the Christmas scene that Watson has in his hand said : A.G.RA

BUT

The memory stick Watson threw into the fire clearly said : A.G.R.A

It seems Dr Watson is keeping some insurance....
You' re right (not that i doubted you but someone wrote after this, there was no difference).
http://imgur.com/hidSwyS
And it can't be a prop mistake, not only because they would check these sort of things on a show as scrutinized as Sherlock but also, they insisted on giving three close-ups for us to see.
So something for next season perhaps. The Fort of Agra connection from the original story 'the sign of four' is appealing, as said before by tania4steve.
But so far, Moffat and his gang have, a lot of times, taken names from original stories and changed everything else. Like Mrs.Hudson; pretty sure, in the original, she wasn't the exotic dancer/widow of a drug baron in Florida!

So a mystery from the letters on the stick and a second with Watson switching keys!
That will be fun to discover!
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Old 14-01-2014, 05:55
fefster
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You' re right (not that i doubted you but someone wrote after this, there was no difference).
http://imgur.com/hidSwyS
And it can't be a prop mistake, not only because they would check these sort of things on a show as scrutinized as Sherlock but also, they insisted on giving three close-ups for us to see.
So something for next season perhaps. The Fort of Agra connection from the original story 'the sign of four' is appealing, as said before by tania4steve.
But so far, Moffat and his gang have, a lot of times, taken names from original stories and changed everything else. Like Mrs.Hudson; pretty sure, in the original, she wasn't the exotic dancer/widow of a drug baron in Florida!

So a mystery from the letters on the stick and a second with Watson switching keys!
That will be fun to discover!
Thank you for that. It really shows how clear it is. The reason I spotted it is because the camera kept lingering on the memory stick. They usually do that for a reason.
I don't think Watson has forgiven Mary, he just needs her to believe it.
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:08
Cheetah666
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Thank you for that. It really shows how clear it is. The reason I spotted it is because the camera kept lingering on the memory stick. They usually do that for a reason.
I don't think Watson has forgiven Mary, he just needs her to believe it.
And yet Magnusson listed Mary as a pressure point and not Sherlock. Curious.

I'm thinking maybe Magnusson is an unreliable narrator. We know that can happen with the villains in this show, as we saw it with Moriarty dismissing Molly as unimportant. Watson himself is capable of being an unreliable narrator, according to Steven Moffat in his BBC q and a session, so if he's lying to Mary that's not entirely surprising.

As for the lack of a hug, I wouldn't read too much into that. Sherlock doesn't like being hugged, we saw that with LeStrade. Watson knows Sherlock better than LeStrade so he respected his feelings and opted for a handshake, is my opinion on that.
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:13
fefster
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And yet Magnusson listed Mary as a pressure point and not Sherlock. Curious.

I'm thinking maybe Magnusson is an unreliable narrator. We know that can happen with the villains in this show, as we saw it with Moriarty dismissing Molly as unimportant. Watson himself is capable of being an unreliable narrator, according to Steven Moffat in his BBC q and a session, so if he's lying to Mary that's not entirely surprising.

As for the lack of a hug, I wouldn't read too much into that. Sherlock doesn't like being hugged, we saw that with LeStrade. Watson knows Sherlock better than LeStrade so he respected his feelings and opted for a handshake, is my opinion on that.
Magnusson listed Mary as a pressure point because of her secret. He didn't know that John knew, so that was the pressure point.
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:16
Cheetah666
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Maybe.

I don't know why I'm arguing about Sherlock at 6.15 am anyway. Need coffee.
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:17
fefster
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Maybe.

I don't know why I'm arguing about Sherlock at 6.15 am anyway. Need coffee.
slightly obsessed
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:36
marsch_labb
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Not arguing, discussing.
And it's not 6 am everywhere.
But yeah, slightly obsessed these days
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:39
Cheetah666
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The only dig in my post was aimed at myself, not the rest of you. Its a bit bad when the first thing I do on a Tuesday morning is check the Sherlock thread on Digital Spy.
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:49
planets
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The only dig in my post was aimed at myself, not the rest of you. Its a bit bad when the first thing I do on a Tuesday morning is check the Sherlock thread on Digital Spy.
you're not the only one
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:50
marsch_labb
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Not after four and a half hours of new stuff in 2 weeks following a two year wait.
These days it's the last thing i check before sleep, soon now.
So have a good day
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Old 14-01-2014, 06:55
Cheetah666
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And you have a good sleep, don't dream about pregnant assassins or people weeing in your fireplace.
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Old 14-01-2014, 07:09
henry_hope
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Its an ill wind that blows nobody any good!


"Good old Watson! You are the one fixed point in a changing age. There's an east wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson, and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less, and a cleaner, better, stronger land will lie in the sunshine when the storm has cleared.
Sherlock Holmes in His Last Bow, (1917), "His Last Bow," p. 980.
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Old 14-01-2014, 07:13
charliesays
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Brilliant final episode for pulling together the three as a proper trilogy. Left a number of people on here with real egg on their face
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Old 14-01-2014, 07:32
Dan Sette
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John has kept the memory stick, he's having that baby as soon as it's born and Mary is out of there.
Which would be the end of the series. John, being the kind of man he is, would be a stay at home Dad.

Certainly wouldn't risk life and limb gallivanting with Sherlock.
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Old 14-01-2014, 07:39
fefster
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Which would be the end of the series. John, being the kind of man he is, would be a stay at home Dad.

Certainly wouldn't risk life and limb gallivanting with Sherlock.
I don't think so. He has already proved he deplores domesticity by storming the crack den. They have a plethora of babysitters.
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Old 14-01-2014, 07:48
aggs
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Magnusson could only be effective against people who had secrets. Not everyone has an important secret.
No, not really - Lady Smallwood had no personal secrets 'big' enough to exploit, but she had a pressure point of her husband and his secret.

Magnusson was like a walking family tree of pressure points. He knew who would be vulnerable to someone else's secret. That was his power.
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Old 14-01-2014, 07:55
Yvie123
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I like the theory about Mycroft sanctioning the hit - I'm not sure if fits or not but I definitely think Moriarty's reappearance was engineered by him in some way to save Sherlock from exile.
I suspect that this time, though, John may have been aware of what was going to happen - hence the rather formal goodbye scene - he knew Sherlock wasn't really going anywhere?
Great spot re the memory stick, too - I never notice things like that!
I'm now wondering what's really going on with John and Mary and whether Sherlock is in on it - again, I find his warmth towards her very out of character; he isn't even that demonstrative with Molly, who he's known far longer and does appear genuinely fond of.
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:03
aggs
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When he was flicking Watson on the face, Magnusson laughingly speaks about how much Janine hates it when he does it to her. What would you think of your boss if he/she did that to you? If that was me I'd be planning to tell him to stick his job at the first opportunity. Maybe she thought Sherlock wielding an engagement ring was that opportunity.
I don't think Janine had any feelings for Sherlock at all - other than how much the story would be worth.

I think it was always her plan to do a skimpy undies kiss and tell - and an engagement ring would be a bit more on the total and a quicker way out of the job. Win-win

I think Sherlock was well aware of that as well.
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:33
Eater Sundae
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Thank you for that. It really shows how clear it is. The reason I spotted it is because the camera kept lingering on the memory stick. They usually do that for a reason.
I don't think Watson has forgiven Mary, he just needs her to believe it.
Is Watson devious enough to do that, or to even try to do that?
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:43
aggs
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Has it ever pretended to be anything else? I could sit and pick holes in any drama if I wanted to, and I certainly will if there isn't enough to hold my interest. Sherlock is so entertaining that I don't think about these things while watching it, I just go with it, yes looking back it has flaws, but the main thing is that I had a great time watching it. If that makes me thick, or just a 'mainstream viewer' then I can live with that.
They are adaptations/modern day re-working of adventure stories that have plot holes even in the originals.

But all Conan-Dolye said when they were pointed out was:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...hin-jokes.html

Knox wasn't the first to point out continuity errors in Holmes's adventures, but his mock-scholarly analysis amused Arthur Conan Doyle, who admitted that 'you know a great deal more about it than I do, for the stories have been written in a disconnected (and careless) way without referring back to what had gone before.'
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:46
laurence1870
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I think Sherlock would be better if it cut all the 'coming back to life' stuff and just went back to having Holmes be a straight detective with normal cases. Just like Doctor Who, I find Sherlock's writing and story arcs to be overcomplicated when the show doesn't need to be. The BBC think Stephen Moffatt is a God however so doubt anything will change soon.
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:50
MissWalford
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John has kept the memory stick, he's having that baby as soon as it's born and Mary is out of there.
Hes a mug so I doubt that. Theyll all be loved up again next season. With ninja Mary steering the show.
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:51
Jennell_Sierako
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There is in fact nothing intimidating in peeing in a Fireplace. When you have 10 kids you've seen a lot of peeing in different places, including a Fireplace and, in one case, a vase of flowers. The licking and flicking was more irritating than anything else and I figured him saying about flicking Janine was just boasting. He was a first class boaster and we have all met some of them.

I was puzzled about what happened to the letters however. Did he actually still have them, because if he had only them in his mind he couldn't logically blackmail anyone with the info, could he? What I mean is, she refuses to pay him the blackmail money and he prints what he says is in the letters in one of his Newspapers. Then she sues him and he looses because he hasn't got any letters, they're just in his head. She could have just told him to F--- off. Anyone can say anything about anyone but they have to have some proof. Saying it's in my Mind Palace is not proof. Oh well, she didn't know he didn't have them, so she couldn't take the risk. It was all a bit odd though.

Mary seems to have replaced Sherlock in John's mind and Sherlock, despite saying he is a Sociopath, is far more normal than Mary. This makes John, to me, seem a bit of an idiot. That isn't the right word but I can't think of the right one in English.
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