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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3) |
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#1576 |
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That's exactly the problem I have with it. Why on earth does Sherlock have to jump at all if Mycroft has the men and resources to cover every potential sniping point (including those vantage points with a view of the airbag) and thus has already prevented Watson getting shot?
Is it because Sherlock thought he might have to also fool Moriarty because he didn't know that Moriarty would kill himself? But that doesn't work either because what would have stopped Moriarty from seeing the airbag if he had remained alive? If the over-arching requirement was simply for Holmes to be believed dead (so that he could destroy Moriarty's network) there were a load of other ways to achieve it. Sorry if it's been covered before it is bugging me... ![]() Sherlock cant be sure if all the hit men have been covered though, Mycroft cant inform him of this as he is unaware of Moriarties suicide and is concerned what Moriarties reaction would be to this news. |
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#1577 |
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Quote:
That's exactly the problem I have with it. Why on earth does Sherlock have to jump at all if Mycroft has the men and resources to cover every potential sniping point (including those vantage points with a view of the airbag) and thus has already prevented Watson getting shot?
Is it because Sherlock thought he might have to also fool Moriarty because he didn't know that Moriarty would kill himself? But that doesn't work either because what would have stopped Moriarty from seeing the airbag if he had remained alive? If the over-arching requirement was simply for Holmes to be believed dead (so that he could destroy Moriarty's network) there were a load of other ways to achieve it. Sorry if it's been covered before but it is bugging me... ![]() it seems the only person that needed to be fooled was Watson , but I can't really see why . . |
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#1578 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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yeah , all that bugs me too .
it seems the only person that needed to be fooled was Watson , but I can't really see why . . Especially as the list of people who knew that Holmes wasn't really dead included at least one of Moriarty's snipers, Molly, Sherlock's parents, Mycroft, Mycroft's agents, the homeless bods, the homeless bods' tennis partners, their friends and some chap I bumped into in the mess called Bernard.
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#1579 |
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yeah , all that bugs me too .
eems the only person that needed to be fooled was Watson , but I can't really see why . . I just get an uneasy feeling with a lot of Moffatts writing that a lot of his twists and turns totally invalidate what's gone before. |
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#1580 |
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I've just watched that BBC4 doc about Sherlock Holmes, and it strikes me that the ending with Moriarty all over every televeision station is reminiscent of the Voice of Terror in the Basil Rathbone film. I've never seen the film though, so I don't know what that may mean in the greater scheme of things.
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#1581 |
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Don't forget that Sherlock never actually told John why he was the only one close to him who wasn't told he was alive?
Maybe it's actually John being protected from something that we don't know about yet? A bit far fetched I suppose, but the lack of explanation to John as to the why rather than the how, has bugged me slightly, and I wonder if there's more to come on that. |
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#1582 |
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The additional problem is that, if this is the real Moriarty back, then it sort of questions the whole roof scenario since Holmes jumped after Moriarties death which now didn't happen.
I just get an uneasy feeling with a lot of Moffatts writing that a lot of his twists and turns totally invalidate what's gone before.
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#1583 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Don't forget that Sherlock never actually told John why he was the only one close to him who wasn't told he was alive?
Maybe it's actually John being protected from something that we don't know about yet? A bit far fetched I suppose, but the lack of explanation to John as to the why rather than the how, has bugged me slightly, and I wonder if there's more to come on that.
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#1584 |
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I would like to think so but with an estimated two years to wait to find out, surely the writers would be taking the piss by doing that? Casual viewers of series 4 would be baffled as to why something broadcast years ago was being referred to and even fanboys have their limits.
![]() Ah yes ... Point taken!
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#1585 |
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I would like to think so but with an estimated two years to wait to find out, surely the writers would be taking the piss by doing that? Casual viewers of series 4 would be baffled as to why something broadcast years ago was being referred to and even fanboys have their limits.
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#1586 |
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I would like to think so but with an estimated two years to wait to find out, surely the writers would be taking the piss by doing that? Casual viewers of series 4 would be baffled as to why something broadcast years ago was being referred to and even fanboys have their limits.
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#1587 |
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I understand where you're coming from here -and to make this problem a bit easier to swallow, Magnusson said that he 'sometimes has to send for something', and, of course indicated he could find people, witnesses if he wanted.
I'm able to stretch it enough to accept it. Once something is printed and people are found, it all comes out anyway quite often. |
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#1588 |
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so the "East Wind " stuff is a reference to the Rathbone movies which was refering to the Nazis , is that right ? or is it mentioned in the Doyle books too ?
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#1589 |
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so the "East Wind " stuff is a reference to the Rathbone movies which was refering to the Nazis , is that right ? or is it mentioned in the Doyle books too ?
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#1590 |
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Not true. There was well over a seasons worth of set up and planning that went into the season four finale of Breaking Bad (which is what made it such a satisfying piece of television). To say that the plan to kill Gus all boiled down to one episode is beyond simplistic
That he was trying to kill him in earlier episodes is irrelevant to my point, which was that it is possible to come up with a plot where the 'hero' uses brute force/violence to kill a very smart villain, but still do it in a clever way that involves psychology, cunning, technology etc. Rather than just pulling out a weapon that he shouldn't logically have had access to. "That it was Sherlock's last desperate move." It was Walt's last desperate move too. |
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#1591 |
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If Mary had only befriended John because she needed sherlock's help to destroy magnusson. Then how would she know that Sherlock was alive all along? seeing as she only befriended John almost a year after Shelock had been confirmed dead.
And seeing as she was capable and seconds away from shooting Magnusson, I don't see what is the point of even getting into contact with John or needing Sherlock in the first place. If anything he made things worse by saving Magnusson's life and getting in the way. |
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#1592 |
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If Mary had only befriended John because she needed sherlock's help to destroy magnusson. Then how would she know that Sherlock was alive all along? seeing as she only befriended John almost a year after Shelock had been confirmed dead.
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#1593 |
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yeah , all that bugs me too .
it seems the only person that needed to be fooled was Watson , but I can't really see why . . |
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#1594 |
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Actually there is a dearth of peeing scenes by powerful villains in the history of drama. It really is more associated with a certain working class behaviour than anything else.
And I throw the gauntlet down to anyone wishing to explain why Sherlock (or anyone) should not have shot Magnusson dead after the reveal. So when Sherlock shoots Magnussen in the head, although some may see that as 'winning', it could also be seen as Sherlock conceding defeat to have to resort to that at all. He should see that as a defeat too because he prides himself to be more clever than anybody else and every case is an intellectual challenge to him. It somehow doesn't seem to fit with his own code presented in the series. He would be too arrogant to accept being bettered by a mind that outsmarted him. Shoooting Magnussen in head stopped him. Fair enough. It solved the problem. But it was brute force and not due to Sherlock overcoming Magnussen intellectually. Which seems wrong considering how the character of Sherlock has been presented to us up until this point. |
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#1595 |
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the only thing that has puzzled me is why would the worlds greatest criminal brain kill himself just to get one up on Holmes?.. surely Moriarty would want to revel in the demise of Sherlock.so my take on this is that he must have somehow faked his death as well
(apologies if this has been discussed before.. it's a very long thread) |
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#1596 |
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so the "East Wind " stuff is a reference to the Rathbone movies which was refering to the Nazis , is that right ? or is it mentioned in the Doyle books too ?
That's another point about the whole Sherlock series; he doesn't disguises himself enough to my liking
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#1597 |
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the only thing that has puzzled me is why would the worlds greatest criminal brain kill himself just to get one up on Holmes?.. surely Moriarty would want to revel in the demise of Sherlock.so my take on this is that he must have somehow faked his death as well
(apologies if this has been discussed before.. it's a very long thread) is anyone actually dead ? |
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#1598 |
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Well for one thing Sherlock in the episode states that he's a sociopath, but the difference is that he uses his abilities to solve crimes and not kill people.
So when Sherlock shoots Magnussen in the head, although some may see that as 'winning', it could also be seen as Sherlock conceding defeat to have to resort to that at all. He should see that as a defeat too because he prides himself to be more clever than anybody else and every case is an intellectual challenge to him. It somehow doesn't seem to fit with his own code presented in the series. He would be too arrogant to accept being bettered by a mind that outsmarted him. Shoooting Magnussen in head stopped him. Fair enough. It solved the problem. But it was brute force and not due to Sherlock overcoming Magnussen intellectually. Which seems wrong considering how the character of Sherlock has been presented to us up until this point. It was all looking good until that scene. I completely agree that it was arguably even more out of character than some of the things he did in the first two episodes to basically give up and kill CAM in that fashion. |
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#1599 |
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I think at this point Moriarty and Holmes faked both their deaths , and Magnusson's , oh and Irene's too .
is anyone actually dead ? |
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#1600 |
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Because Watson shows his feelings very transparently. If he'd known SH was still alive, he'd have given himself away (to the enemies) by his lack of grief. The only way to fool other people was for Watson to be broken in half by Sherlock's death.
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