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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 14-01-2014, 21:43
eggshell
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In which case then, he is definitely staying true to,the spirit of Conan Doyle, who said

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...hin-jokes.html
Lol...you know I think the issue is that for some reason Moff likes to portray his stuff as really clever when often it ain't, whilst Doyle was far more disparaging about his work and would never have gone out claiming "game changers" etc etc
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Old 14-01-2014, 21:45
eggshell
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I just thought it was because John can't dissemble to save his life.

So, if there were people who were watching him for Sherlock clues, the only way to convince them that he thought Sherlock was dead would be for him to actually believe Sherlock is dead.

Yep, in the originals Holmes only told Mycroft he was alive because he felt that John would have given the game away, not being the type who could hide his emotions.
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Old 14-01-2014, 21:57
Yvie123
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Fair point about John wearing his heart on his sleeve - in which case it would've been more satisfactory ( for this viewer anyway!), had Sherlock explained that to him; I think this series in particular, Sherlock's character, his behaviour, has been a bit inconsistent at times.
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Old 14-01-2014, 22:09
Kapellmeister
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This went from being one of the greatest shows ever produced to absolute mediocrity in one season.

Thought this will be up there with some classics in the future but after season 3 I really don't want to see any-more. Looks like ego got the best of the writers.
Me either. I'd be quite happy if the show was never made again. I guess I've just fallen out with it. I have absolutely no desire to rewatch any of the episodes from the new series let alone buy it on DVD. It's just not my cup of tea any more. I prefer stuff like The Bridge, The Fall, Borgen, etc. Sherlock has just become too silly.
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Old 14-01-2014, 22:31
Corabal
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Me either. I'd be quite happy if the show was never made again. I guess I've just fallen out with it. I have absolutely no desire to rewatch any of the episodes from the new series let alone buy it on DVD. It's just not my cup of tea any more. I prefer stuff like The Bridge, The Fall, Borgen, etc. Sherlock has just become too silly.
Cool, stop wasting your time posting of your dislike then, if you dislike it so much.
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Old 14-01-2014, 22:46
Eater Sundae
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That was handled with the final deus ex machina (I know how some people absolutely hate that term being used on here) with Mycroft conveniently sorting out that issue for him.
Sherlock murders Magnussen, the unexpected intervention of the god(Mycroft) appears at the end in a machine (helicopter) to solve the seemingly unsolvable problem of Sherlock going down and doing time.
Tah Dahhh.
But it doesn't apply here - Mycroft isn't some new external panacea, he's been there all along.
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Old 14-01-2014, 22:49
Enfant Terrible
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Me either. I'd be quite happy if the show was never made again. I guess I've just fallen out with it. I have absolutely no desire to rewatch any of the episodes from the new series let alone buy it on DVD. It's just not my cup of tea any more. I prefer stuff like The Bridge, The Fall, Borgen, etc. Sherlock has just become too silly.
Haha, are you STILL complaining? You've sat through not one, not two but three full length one and a half hour episodes of this show, constantly complaining, complaining, complaining and saying you couldn't take any more, and you're still erm...complaining?

This is quite unreal even for DS - I have to admit
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Old 14-01-2014, 22:52
marsch_labb
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Lol...you know I think the issue is that for some reason Moff likes to portray his stuff as really clever when often it ain't, whilst Doyle was far more disparaging about his work and would never have gone out claiming "game changers" etc etc
Even though it was Holmes who made him his name and fortune, he considered the writing of Holmes as 'minor work' compared to the other things he wrote.

''Had Holmes never existed i could not have done more, though he may perhaps have stood a little in the way of the recognition of my more serious literary work''

Extract from the introduction by Conan Doyle of his last book on Holmes 'The case-book of Sherlock Holmes'
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Old 14-01-2014, 22:58
Eater Sundae
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I just thought it was because John can't dissemble to save his life.

So, if there were people who were watching him for Sherlock clues, the only way to convince them that he thought Sherlock was dead would be for him to actually believe Sherlock is dead.
This^^^^^^

Which is also why I don't think that John is waiting for the baby to be born before kicking Mary out, as some think. He just wouldn't be able to pull of the charade.
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Old 14-01-2014, 22:58
Alrightmate
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Hey is that a crack at me!
I said that (post 848 of part two of this thread) but with a blank in the gun. Got answered a blank was too risky.
Still believe with todays movie FX it would be easy
Absolutely not.

I honestly didn't have anyone else's theory in mind.

My theory isn't about him firing a blank, but the gun is simply a detonator switch which blows off the back of the fake head. Something entirely different.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:03
Eater Sundae
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Haha, are you STILL complaining? You've sat through not one, not two but three full length one and a half hour episodes of this show, constantly complaining, complaining, complaining and saying you couldn't take any more, and you're still erm...complaining?

This is quite unreal even for DS - I have to admit
Yes, but he/she is doing their bit to boost the viewing figures and helping to guarantee that the BBC will commission series 4
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:04
Alrightmate
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Me either. I'd be quite happy if the show was never made again. I guess I've just fallen out with it. I have absolutely no desire to rewatch any of the episodes from the new series let alone buy it on DVD. It's just not my cup of tea any more. I prefer stuff like The Bridge, The Fall, Borgen, etc. Sherlock has just become too silly.
It's a shame that you won't be watching it anymore.

But anyway, look forward to seeing you on here for the next series.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:07
Enfant Terrible
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Absolutely not.

I honestly didn't have anyone else's theory in mind.

My theory isn't about him firing a blank, but the gun is simply a detonator switch which blows off the back of the fake head. Something entirely different.
You don't need a blank bullet or a fake head/fake blood or anything. All you need to do is ask yourself if Holmes was taking the piss when he was talking to Anderson. So far, the very last minute of episode 3 confirms what I was thinking all along.

I don't have an exact quote but Anderson says something along the lines of "Surely I'd be the last person in the world you would give the true story to??"

I'm in for a very, very long wait to see if I was right or not!
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:07
marsch_labb
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Absolutely not.

I honestly didn't have anyone else's theory in mind.

My theory isn't about him firing a blank, but the gun is simply a detonator switch which blows off the back of the fake head. Something entirely different.

I know, it was a joke about the crack, hence the wink.
Also i used a 'but' to make clear that i said something slightly different. I don't see how it's completely different. Pretty much the same. I initialy used the word blank but it was pretty clear my main point was that he could have faked his death with todays technology and FX, just like you

I brought it back because it's the only one of my theories that seems right. All other ones were wrong (theories, not observations).
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:12
catsitter
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Just thinking back to episode 1 of series 3, with the bomb that had an unlikely "off" switch, is it possible that Moriarty (if he is still alive) set it up, and that he wasn't really trying to blow up the Houses of Parliament, just messing about?
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:16
marsch_labb
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You don't need a blank bullet or a fake head/fake blood or anything. All you need to do is ask yourself if Holmes was taking the piss when he was talking to Anderson. So far, the very last minute of episode 3 confirms what I was thinking all along.

I don't have an exact quote but Anderson says something along the lines of "Surely I'd be the last person in the world you would give the true story to??"

I'm in for a very, very long wait to see if I was right or not!
You need it in the following scenario:
-i said if Sherlock can do it, Moriarty can too, if he's prepared.
-so then how could he do it; hence the fake blood, etc. And it appears that i'm not the only one who thinks it's possible.
Not saying it's what happen, just put it out there before series 3 started that it was possible. If you've read my other posts, you see i always give credit to others. And this is the only one i can claim a little bit.
I apologise if i seem too insistent, just two months of forum under my belt, perhaps a bit clumsy
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:18
Milton Jones
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The reichenback fall, was unbelievably good, that anything after that will be a dissapointment.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:20
Trsvis_Bickle
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This was all covered in the series two finale itself.

Mycroft may very well have the resources to cover the vantage points of a very specific location for a brief period of time but this does not extend to offering complete protection for every second of every day. As Moriarty lays out in the episode itself his network is under orders to continue until Sherlock is dead. Not just those individuals currently in London targeting Watson and co. but his entire network. There are just two things that can change that – either Moriarty himself will call them off (which is why he kills himself to stop this from happening) or Sherlock has to die. Sherlock has to jump because as long as he's still alive those closest to him are the targets of Moriarty. This is also why he can't resurface as alive again until he has dismantled Moriarty's network and the reason he can't reach out to Watson and tell him that he's still alive, for fear that Moriarty's network will still be monitoring him (Watson) and thus putting everyone back in danger again..
Good attempt but it still doesn't explain why Sherlock has to jump (i.e. become dead) at that point. In fact, it may be the worst time and method by which to fake his death, given the large number of people in on it plus the very real possibility that a Moriarty sniper may well see exactly what happens.

Why is Watson deemed to be such a security risk? Surely Sherlock's own parents, brother, Molly, homeless associates etc etc would also be monitored and just as likely to betray their true feelings?

Look, I know why the writers made Watson virtually the only person near to Holmes who believed him to be dead; it's a great opportunity for all the dramatic and comedic stuff that took place for much of series 3 episode 1. All I'm saying is that it could have been handled more satisfactorily.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:22
Alrightmate
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You don't need a blank bullet or a fake head/fake blood or anything. All you need to do is ask yourself if Holmes was taking the piss when he was talking to Anderson. So far, the very last minute of episode 3 confirms what I was thinking all along.

I don't have an exact quote but Anderson says something along the lines of "Surely I'd be the last person in the world you would give the true story to??"

I'm in for a very, very long wait to see if I was right or not!
But I'm going by what we saw in the final episode of series 2. I'm not even considering what he told Anderson.
We saw Moriarty, or Richard Brook, stick a gun into his mouth and seemingly blow his brains out with Sherlock stood right in front of him.
This is long before The Empty Hearse and the events within it involving Anderson in series 3.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:26
Enfant Terrible
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You need it in the following scenario:
-i said if Sherlock can do it, Moriarty can too, if he's prepared.
-so then how could he do it; hence the fake blood, etc. And it appears that i'm not the only one who thinks it's possible.
Not saying it's what happen, just put it out there before series 3 started that it was possible. If you've read my other posts, you see i always give credit to others. And this is the only one i can claim a little bit.
I apologise if i seem too insistent, just two months of forum under my belt, perhaps a bit clumsy
No not at all, your contributions are very much appreciated!

I have to admit I don't normally give any TV stuff this much thought, but if you watch the whole "explanation" again that Holmes offers...that whole scenario depends on so many factors that could possibly go wrong, it's out of this world.

Looking at it logically, I'd say it has a 99% chance of being totally impossible.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:31
Eater Sundae
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No not at all, your contributions are very much appreciated!

I have to admit I don't normally give any TV stuff this much thought, but if you watch the whole "explanation" again that Holmes offers...that whole scenario depends on so many factors that could possibly go wrong, it's out of this world.

Looking at it logically, I'd say it has a 99% chance of being totally impossible.
IF Moriarty is alive,

AND they decide to show us how he survived,

Then they might even revisit Sherlock's fall and give us yet another solution.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:33
Enfant Terrible
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But I'm going by what we saw in the final episode of series 2. I'm not even considering what he told Anderson.
We saw Moriarty, or Richard Brook, stick a gun into his mouth and seemingly blow his brains out with Sherlock stood right in front of him.
This is long before The Empty Hearse and the events within it involving Anderson in series 3.
You saw Holmes's "version" of events. This is one of the oldest tricks in fiction literature, a narrative within a narrative that may/may not be true.

As I said, I may be very wrong about this but so far the series is consistent with the above.
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:36
Enfant Terrible
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IF Moriarty is alive,

AND they decide to show us how he survived,

Then they might even revisit Sherlock's fall and give us yet another solution.
Didn't he say there are 13 possible explanations? Dear lord, 3 given so far (and that includes the snogging!), 10 to go...my brain will explode
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:41
marsch_labb
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If i go with what Sherlock said to Anderson and also take into account that it was mainly to fool Watson.
I thought the explanation holds if the roof is the only place he could do it.
Apart from, if Watson was the main one to be fooled, why use another body in the plan. If Watson didn't see the last feet of the fall, all they had to do is play a sound effect of a body crashing. Much easier than to find a body that looks like Sherlock. And the other body was dropped at a much lower height, it would not make a satisfactory sound.
But many people raised very good points, so had it been something else, i would not have been surprised.
About what a person would or would not do in a precise situation, it's psychology so my thoughts are on less firm ground.
But i just don't think Moriarty would sacrifice himself only to get under Sherlock's skin.
Two years of spéculations! i'll need a vacation. And it starts tonite with Death in paradise!
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Old 14-01-2014, 23:52
nethwen
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Here is the transcript of the Q&A session with Steven Moffat et al after the BAFTA [pre-] screening of His Last Vow that took place in London the other week:

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/sherlock...#ixzz2qMrEM9Co

(I know an FM asked for this a while back but there have obviously been many posts on here since then, so can't find the particular post.)
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