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Sherlock - BBC Drama (Part 3)


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Old 16-01-2014, 15:30
loracan
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No...not Mrs.Hudson has an exotic dancer
That would be one hell of a flashback!
I'd like to think it'd look a little like this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmyiDes-ICw
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Old 16-01-2014, 15:51
Yvie123
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You bring up a good point. Watson is Sherlock's pressure point,...but his own parents aren't?
I think because Watson seems to be the only person in Sherlock's life to give him unconditional friendship, and to openly declare his friendship for him, Sherlock has this deep attachment to him.
I don't know if there's supposed to be a borderline autism in him too, but sometimes his attitude to their friendship makes me wonder if there is.
With his parents and Brother - his memories appeared to indicate that he sees himself as a disappointment to them and constantly needs to prove that he's not stupid - he was astonished at Mycroft telling him he'd be heartbroken to lose him - even though the evidence of his concern has been there for us to see all along, it appears to have been completely misread by Sherlock.
So yes I think that of course he'd protect his family if they needed him, but his bond with John is deeper.
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Old 16-01-2014, 16:05
kampffenhoff
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No...not Mrs.Hudson has an exotic dancer
That would be one hell of a flashback!

When I was very small I remember seeing Una Stubbs dancing in something or other. I believed she was a good dancer and a quick look at Wikki told me she was. She could probably still do an exotic dance. I think she's great in Sherlock.
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Old 16-01-2014, 17:08
marsch_labb
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Last night on BBC3 there was a Timeshift special on Sherlock Holmes: How to be Sherlock Holmes. It's a retrospect of all the different incarnations of Holmes and Watson on stage, cinema and TV with a lot of comments by Gatiss.
It's very interesting and i recommend it if it shows again or you have access to it.
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Old 16-01-2014, 17:48
moleymo
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Hi everyone

Do you think that Sherlock would go to great lengths to save his parents if they were in danger? I would like to think so but he drugged his own parents!! How disrespectful was that and his parents were not listed as his pressure points but Watson was and contrary to some posts here I actually like the wedding episode where he was best man as I thought showing his human side to Watson was endearing.Loving seeing his human side. I think is actually quite exciting. However I would like to think he loves his parents too just that he's not the type to show how much he loves Mummy and Dad and it might take them being in danger to bring that side of him out.What does everyone else think?
I think the pressure points were not about who was most important to the person but about who had secrets that the person could be manipulated to protect the secret from coming out.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining this clearly but for example we saw that mrs Hudson had marijuana as a pressure point but she was dismissed as being unimportant probably mrs Hudson smoking weed isn't really powerful enough or a juicy enough story to print It doesn't mean that sherlock wouldn't protect her of she is unimportant to sherlock just that her secret isn't that big to manipulate friends to help her
Sherlocks parents are probably as important to sherlock as John or the women but maybe have no secrets or none known to magnussun worthy of being a pressure point sherlock wasn't a pressure point for John and he has shot a guy to save sherlock we know sherlock is important to him
It's a bit confusing I hope it's clarified by the writers at some point
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Old 16-01-2014, 17:54
Michael_Eve
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When I was very small I remember seeing Una Stubbs dancing in something or other. I believed she was a good dancer and a quick look at Wikki told me she was. She could probably still do an exotic dance. I think she's great in Sherlock.
Could be one of the Cliff Richard films like 'Summer Holiday'?

Think one of her first credits was 'The Strange World of Gurney Slade', the Anthony Newley TV masterpiece from 1960. She dances and acts her whole role in mime in episode 1 and reappears in the last episode....still without any lines! Very cute, too. (It's on Youtube I think if you want to check it out.) Una's great.
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:04
CBFreak
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I like Mary
All this hate reminds me of fanfiction where an established male/female couple is split because the fans don't like her and she stands in the way of their own personal pairing that inevitably ends up being a gay couple.

I think Mary adds an extra level of the dynamics between Sherlock and Watson. It's not eroded how to two get along at all.
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:12
Virgil Tracy
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can someone tell me - what was the point of the Redbeard story ? I've watched the ep twice but somehow seemed to have zoned out in that bit . It was his dog right ? what happened to it ?
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:14
Virgil Tracy
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also , forget to mention this before - I got the impression from the way Magnusson spoke about Janine that he may have killed her , or tortured her . He mentioned flicking her face and the noises she made , but I find it hard to believe she would've put up with that while she was his secretary , she seemed too confident for that .


.
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:17
Virgil Tracy
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I like Mary
All this hate reminds me of fanfiction where an established male/female couple is split because the fans don't like her and she stands in the way of their own personal pairing that inevitably ends up being a gay couple.

I think Mary adds an extra level of the dynamics between Sherlock and Watson. It's not eroded how to two get along at all.
it kinda reminds me of when Rory was intoduced in DW , everyone seemed to think they should get rid of him asap , but he hung around til the end ! Moffat likes his little families and domestic comedy-drama .
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:22
Granny McSmith
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it kinda reminds me of when Rory was intoduced in DW , everyone seemed to think they should get rid of him asap , but he hung around til the end ! Moffat likes his little families and domestic comedy-drama .
Well, not me, or k9fan! (I still miss Rory!).

All the debate on this thread about the memory stick does remind me of the debate on the DW forum about Rory's hospital ID badge, though.

It turned out to be an error by the props dept. But you never know with Moffat.
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:23
moleymo
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I like Mary
All this hate reminds me of fanfiction where an established male/female couple is split because the fans don't like her and she stands in the way of their own personal pairing that inevitably ends up being a gay couple.

I think Mary adds an extra level of the dynamics between Sherlock and Watson. It's not eroded how to two get along at all.
I liked Mary at first but still wanted her to get killed off, they have written her really well at first she's funny down to earth I liked the twist when she shot sherlock because I really wanted her to be the villain but her motives for shooting sherlock, he nearly died twice that episode just make her look incredibly selfish
She shot sherlock to save John from being broken? Despite the fact he had suffered so much and she had witnessed it the first time sherlock died? I think the actress plays her really well though I would have loved her as a character but not as johns wife.
Mary does change the dynamic between John and sherlock. John no longer lives in Baker Street. He never saw sherlock for months after the marriage Sherlock started his drug habit again, he has a replacement for Watson in that homeless guy if the writers wanted to show that Mary is no threat they did a really bad job, probably intentionally they wanted us to dislike Mary so we would cheer and want to hate her when she shot sherlock but they haven't done enough to make us like her again afterwards
Mary being pregnant is worse because how will we feel about John selfishly putting himself and family in danger when his child should be a priority?
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:29
fiveinabed
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The Irish connection. I'm sure she was telling him something about the bees as well but I haven't decided what yet.
This was a nod to the ACD stories. Holmes's ambition is to retire to the Sussex Downs and keep bees. Janine just walked all over his ambition by saying she'd seen a nice house there, but the downside was the bees, and that she would get rid of them.
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:30
StrictlyRed
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Last night on BBC3 there was a Timeshift special on Sherlock Holmes: How to be Sherlock Holmes. It's a retrospect of all the different incarnations of Holmes and Watson on stage, cinema and TV with a lot of comments by Gatiss.
It's very interesting and i recommend it if it shows again or you have access to it.

Not knowing much about the original Sherlock Holmes stories, I found this programme fascinating, going back as it did to the early illustrations and the beginnings of silent movies.

In fact, the only thing I really knew was the phrase "Elementary my dear Watson", and it seems this didn't appear in the original books at all!

Well, not me, or k9fan! (I still miss Rory!).
Me neither.

I would have actually preferred him to be the companion without Amy!
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:33
Granny McSmith
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I liked Mary at first but still wanted her to get killed off, they have written her really well at first she's funny down to earth I liked the twist when she shot sherlock because I really wanted her to be the villain but her motives for shooting sherlock, he nearly died twice that episode just make her look incredibly selfish
She shot sherlock to save John from being broken? Despite the fact he had suffered so much and she had witnessed it the first time sherlock died? I think the actress plays her really well though I would have loved her as a character but not as johns wife.
Mary does change the dynamic between John and sherlock. John no longer lives in Baker Street. He never saw sherlock for months after the marriage Sherlock started his drug habit again, he has a replacement for Watson in that homeless guy if the writers wanted to show that Mary is no threat they did a really bad job, probably intentionally they wanted us to dislike Mary so we would cheer and want to hate her when she shot sherlock but they haven't done enough to make us like her again afterwards
Mary being pregnant is worse because how will we feel about John selfishly putting himself and family in danger when his child should be a priority?
Maybe at this point we are supposed to be ambiguous about Mary, and her story will be expanded next series to make her completely lovable/hatable.

As for the baby - I agree with your point - John putting himself or the child in danger would be potentially audience alienating.

I do hope there's a really good reason for this baby to appear, and not just some twee way of using "The Sign of Three" as an episode title. I wasn't at all happy with the baby plot in DW, so I hope kidnap or similar isn't on the cards for series 4.

Anyone know if a kidnapped child plays a part in any of ACD's stories?
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:36
fiveinabed
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In fact, the only thing I really knew was the phrase "Elementary my dear Watson", and it seems this didn't appear in the original books at all!
... which reminds me, without re-reading the books, I always thought the phrase was "The game is afoot". But in this version he always says "The game in ON".
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:53
Yvie123
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I can't see John as Sherlock's side kick if he has a wife and child at home?
I'll be interested to see how that plays out - I'm wondering is she and the baby will have to flee the country at some point because they're in danger due to her past; I just don't think that chapter is closed yet.
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Old 16-01-2014, 18:58
wuffles
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Mrs Hudson's always complaining about her bad hip - the exotic dancing is probably the culprit!
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Old 16-01-2014, 19:01
Cythna
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The Irish connection. I'm sure she was telling him something about the bees as well but I haven't decided what yet.
I didn't understand the bees thing either. It was when Janine said she was going to get rid of the bees at her new cottage that Sherlock became overcome with pain-it seemed like a trigger, not just that his morphine had been turned off.

The other thing I didn't get was the scene in the café with Magnusson. Sherlock was wearing a hospital gown, and had his morphine pump with him, but they were certainly not in a hospital cafeteria. M says, 'Shouldn't you be in hospital?'. If they were still on hospital grounds he would have said 'in bed?' So despite S saying that this WAS the hospital café, it wasn't, and the way he said it acknowledged as much. So what was he doing out and about like that?
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Old 16-01-2014, 19:05
Rhumbatugger
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I like Mary
All this hate reminds me of fanfiction where an established male/female couple is split because the fans don't like her and she stands in the way of their own personal pairing that inevitably ends up being a gay couple.

I think Mary adds an extra level of the dynamics between Sherlock and Watson. It's not eroded how to two get along at all.
I think that's actually rather insulting - people don't just object to Mary because she 'gets between' a potentially gay pairing. And a lot of 'fans', aren't blinded by their own 'wish', in fact they KNOW, it ain't going to happen.

Mary is hardly neutral, and the FRIENDSHIP and working relationship of Holmes and Watson is central to all adaptations of Sherlock. Saying it won't erode how the two function is just some future projected opinion. How do we know? And it's been shown that Mary won't necessarily 'be in the background'.

I liked Mary at first but still wanted her to get killed off, they have written her really well at first she's funny down to earth I liked the twist when she shot sherlock because I really wanted her to be the villain but her motives for shooting sherlock, he nearly died twice that episode just make her look incredibly selfish
She shot sherlock to save John from being broken? Despite the fact he had suffered so much and she had witnessed it the first time sherlock died? I think the actress plays her really well though I would have loved her as a character but not as johns wife.
Mary does change the dynamic between John and sherlock. John no longer lives in Baker Street. He never saw sherlock for months after the marriage Sherlock started his drug habit again, he has a replacement for Watson in that homeless guy if the writers wanted to show that Mary is no threat they did a really bad job, probably intentionally they wanted us to dislike Mary so we would cheer and want to hate her when she shot sherlock but they haven't done enough to make us like her again afterwards
Mary being pregnant is worse because how will we feel about John selfishly putting himself and family in danger when his child should be a priority?
I agree with your points. Mary is dangerous, and ruthless - she's prepared to kill and she's been shown to be prepared, at the very least, to seriously risk killing Sherlock.

How can the audience 'trust' that 'she'll be okay', we've no reason at all to think so, except that she's 'likeable', that John loves her and Sherlock says she's trustworthy.

He's been proved to be wrong about a few things, about Mary even. I don't think she's 'comfortably sorted' as 'fine' at all.

And you are right - there very well may be problems with John risking his life, or deserting Mary and the child to 'get on the case' with Sherlock.

With the added bonus that Mary isn't someone who John should EVER cheese off, she's quite capable of 'sorting' the situation.

I don't like it at all.
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Old 16-01-2014, 19:09
Eater Sundae
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... which reminds me, without re-reading the books, I always thought the phrase was "The game is afoot". But in this version he always says "The game in ON".
Didn't they do it as "The game is... er..." then the other said "on". "Yes, on". It sounded sort of OK, so they went with it, and carried on using it. It's just the writers having a bit of fun.
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Old 16-01-2014, 19:11
Rhumbatugger
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Didn't they do it as "The game is... er..." then the other said "on". "Yes, on". It sounded sort of OK, so they went with it, and carried on using it. It's just the writers having a bit of fun.
I think the game is 'on', works fine, it brings it up to date. It must be hard to say 'the game is ...afoot', without doing a Rathbone impression or something.
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Old 16-01-2014, 19:12
fiveinabed
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I didn't understand the bees thing either. It was when Janine said she was going to get rid of the bees at her new cottage that Sherlock became overcome with pain-it seemed like a trigger, not just that his morphine had been turned off.

The other thing I didn't get was the scene in the café with Magnusson. Sherlock was wearing a hospital gown, and had his morphine pump with him, but they were certainly not in a hospital cafeteria. M says, 'Shouldn't you be in hospital?'. If they were still on hospital grounds he would have said 'in bed?' So despite S saying that this WAS the hospital café, it wasn't, and the way he said it acknowledged as much. So what was he doing out and about like that?
Re the bees... as I said further up the page... "This was a nod to the ACD stories. Holmes's ambition is to retire to the Sussex Downs and keep bees. Janine just walked all over his ambition by saying she'd seen a nice house there, but the downside was the bees, and that she would get rid of them. "

Re the hospital/non-hospital cafeteria... all this stuff was happening inside his head - not even at Mind Palace level, more likely at Flatlining DeathBed level.

Don't over-think it!
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Old 16-01-2014, 19:13
Eater Sundae
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I can't see John as Sherlock's side kick if he has a wife and child at home?
I'll be interested to see how that plays out - I'm wondering is she and the baby will have to flee the country at some point because they're in danger due to her past; I just don't think that chapter is closed yet.
But wouldn't John just go with them? I agree that it needs sorting out. I can't see many adventures for Holmes and Watson if John has to keep rushing home to change nappies.
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Old 16-01-2014, 19:13
Virgil Tracy
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I didn't understand the bees thing either. It was when Janine said she was going to get rid of the bees at her new cottage that Sherlock became overcome with pain-it seemed like a trigger, not just that his morphine had been turned off.

The other thing I didn't get was the scene in the café with Magnusson. Sherlock was wearing a hospital gown, and had his morphine pump with him, but they were certainly not in a hospital cafeteria. M says, 'Shouldn't you be in hospital?'. If they were still on hospital grounds he would have said 'in bed?' So despite S saying that this WAS the hospital café, it wasn't, and the way he said it acknowledged as much. So what was he doing out and about like that?
he'd obviously just sneaked out of the hospital to have some decent food , rather than the NHS slop .
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