Liz's "stab" comment

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Henrik

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by Miss Con Strue:
“Liz did not threaten to stab him. She said IF you punched my horse, I would stab you. You show outrage at the suggestion of violence, but do not condemn severe violence to a pregnant animal.”

So IF he did punch her horse, do you think it would be appropriate for him to be stabbed?

NatoPMT

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by etamine:
“If the way he phrased it wasn't legally a threat, then Big Brother's reaction would be exactly the same. He wouldn't be hauled in.

However, you have to realise that there is a massive imbalance of power between Liz and Evander already. Liz is undeniably weaker than Evander, he'd floor her while a punch from her to him would be more likely to break her own hand. A different reaction isn't automatically a double standard - if a 5 year old threatened to punch you you'd laugh whereas if you threatened to punch a 5 year old people would react much differently because it's more likely that it could theoretically happen and do damage.

That said, Evander clearly wasn't unnerved. He didn't seem to feel unsafe. He's probably forgotten about it already, so you're putting far more stock into it than necessary.”

What she said didn't bother me in the slightest. I didn't think the reaction would be different if the roles were reversed because they wouldnt be reversed in the first place, given Liz's motivation for saying it

ie because I think Liz said 'stab' as telling a world heavy weight boxing champion you would punch him (in direct retaliation for his punching something else) would have no verbal impact and make you sound comically weak and your threat sound comically inadequate.

acid rain

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by AOTB:
“And you would most likely go to jail. If you purposefully hospitalised someone, you would deserve it too.”

As would a person who assaulted an animal.

VeryGoodLuver

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by etamine:
“I'd think he was a bit mental as I do with Liz, but that wouldn't legally be a threat either.

That said, I automatically side with anybody who is against horse punching. The fact you're sat villifying a woman who wants to defend her horses over a man who decked a horse for showing him up says a lot about you.”

No-one is saying what Evander done to the horse is right..but again IF he had said he'd stab Liz over a horse i wonder what you and others would be saying about him now?

There's a double standard in this place and it needs to be addressed.

VeryGoodLuver

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by Scarlet O'Hara:
“The poster is defending their comments perfectly well. Unfortunately you're not, because people have repeatedly explained to you that she did not threaten to stab Evander. She said basically that IF he attacked her animal, she would retaliate.

IMO it's a completely understandable response to a shocking admission of animal cruelty. Big bully hitting a defenceless pregnant creature because it showed him up?!

There's no comparison between what he DID, and what she merely SAID.”

What a cop out!!...again i'll ask..whatever evander said is suggesting you'd "stab" him the RIGHT response? and if Evander had done the same thing TO HER what would peoples reaction in here be?

In Arcadia Ego

10-01-2014

I love this thread.

AOTB

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by Miss Con Strue:
“Liz did not threaten to stab him. She said IF you punched my horse, I would stab you.”

IMO this totally misses the point.

I have no idea how you or anyone else can make excuses for someone who said they would stab another person.
I cannot see how any right minded person can accept the mention of ANY threat or violence in this instance via stabbing whether it be direct, implied, or conditional. It does not matter.

Even a conditional thread (you punch my horse and I'll stab you) IS a threat and for me this 'issue' really isn't a tricky one at all.

The only way I could think it would be 'ok' to say you would stab someone to say would be if both parties knew it was said in jest, and even then when shown to an audience on tv you'd question anyone who would condone it.

etamine

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by VeryGoodLuver:
“No-one is saying what Evander done to the horse is right..but again IF he had said he'd stab Liz over a horse i wonder what you and others would be saying about him now?

There's a double standard in this place and it needs to be addressed.”

Not really. In a knife fight between Evander and Liz who would win?

Double standards are sometimes there for a reason. Almost anyone's reaction to getting 'threatened' by a world heavyweight champion who could follow through would be very different to receiving a 'threat' from an old, eating disordered woman.

VeryGoodLuver

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by Reality Sucks:
“It's not a good analogy since Liz wouldn't slap an animal whether it had kicked her or not. Funny how atheists tend to be more compassionate about other living creatures on this planet than the Bible bashers.”

Another one full of poor excuses!!

AOTB

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by acid rain:
“As would a person who assaulted an animal.”

Totally agree... and BOTH would deserve it.

VeryGoodLuver

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by etamine:
“Not really. In a knife fight between Evander and Liz who would win?

Double standards are sometimes there for a reason. Almost anyone's reaction to getting 'threatened' by a world heavyweight champion who could follow through would be very different to receiving a 'threat' from an old, eating disordered woman.”

Oh right..so it's ok to suggest you would "stab someone" if you're an "old" caucasian woman...but it's not if you're a big, african american boxing champion? ok then!!

In Arcadia Ego

10-01-2014

I'm not sure it qualifies as a "double standard" that a flimsy-looking woman joking about inflicting violence on a heavyweight boxer carries a bit less menace than the other way round.

AOTB

10-01-2014

This is irrelevant. If a 5 ft tall, 8 stone man threatened to stab a 6ft 5, 15 stone man, that it is still a threat of violence.

The police, and the legal system etc do not excuse a weaker human if they threaten to stab a stronger human being.

People DO realise this right?

Daemon666

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by Dr. Claw:
“a 5 year old with a deadly weapon (knife or gun) can cause just as much damage if it was done by an adult”

No, they can't.

A 5 year old would get a knife taken from them pretty quickly by just about anyone and if they had a gun then the recoil would likely knock a 5 year old out on the first shot.

VeryGoodLuver

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by AOTB:
“This is irrelevant. If a 5 ft tall, 8 stone man threatened to stab a 6ft 5, 15 stone man, that it is still a threat of violence.

The police, and the legal system etc do not excuse a weaker human if they threaten to stab a stronger human being.

People DO realise this right?”

Spot on!!..and i couldn't have said it better myself.

It's just a shame people are trying to justify liz's comment...it's crazy to me

AOTB

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by acid rain:
“Well violence is clearly the only language Evander understands.”

This is not true.

In Arcadia Ego

10-01-2014

You'd like the police to investigate Liz's horrendous crime, then?

Daemon666

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by In Arcadia Ego:
“I'm not sure it qualifies as a "double standard" that a flimsy-looking woman joking about inflicting violence on a heavyweight boxer carries a bit less menace than the other way round.”

She wasn't joking though was she. She was completely in earnest about it.

too_much_coffee

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by In Arcadia Ego:
“You'd like the police to investigate Liz's horrendous crime, then?”

Better call the police to come and arrest me too as I threatened to KILL my sister for eating the last bit of chocolate...

Dr. Claw

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by etamine:
“Gun recoil can kill kids not to mention they're unlikely to have the hand eye coordination to do a deadly shot and knives require force to do damage that an adult can apply more of than a 5 year old, but you keep thinking the laws of physics don't apply in this type of situation.

You're safer with a child who has it out for you than with a fully grown adult who has it out for you.”

that is so bs i've seen kids fire guns on a gun range. kids with guns kill people probably at a monthly rate in the US

also kids kill their parents with knives when the parents are asleep

etamine

10-01-2014

Except what Liz said wasn't legally a threat. If it is, she'll get her arse handed to her by the police, but it won't happen because there was no impending or postponed threat of harm.

However, public understandably view it differently depending on who is threatening. A five year old threatening you is viewed different to you threatening a five year old no matter if the same was said because of an imbalance of power.

AOTB

10-01-2014

Whist this is true, saying you will stab someone is, well saying you will stab someone. How menacing you are (or not as the case may be) is irrelevant.

Hypothetically IF Evander punched Liz's horse and IF Liz grabbed her favorite knife and tried to stab an unarmed Evander who has just hurt his hand rendering it useless having punched the aforementioned horse, do I think she would be able to actually hurt him? No, not in a million years.

Do I think she would carry any menace even if she were armed with a knife strapped to each finger Freddie Krueger style and Evander had both arms strapped behind his back at she came in for the jugular? No, not for me.

All of that of course course is also totally irrelevant to the matter at hand.

AOTB

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by In Arcadia Ego:
“You'd like the police to investigate Liz's horrendous crime, then?”

No, I think that would be ridiculous.

too_much_coffee

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by Daemon666:
“She wasn't joking though was she. She was completely in earnest about it.”

Liz has no history of violence. She has a history of writing some real drivel and living in a fantasy world. She also has a history of being passionate about animal welfare and rescuing animals...

Evander has made his name in a violent sport and has a dubious reputation with illegal substances..

AOTB

10-01-2014

Originally Posted by etamine:
“Except what Liz said wasn't legally a threat. If it is, she'll get her arse handed to her by the police, but it won't happen because there was no impending or postponed threat of harm.”

I agree.

Originally Posted by etamine:
“However, public understandably view it differently depending on who is threatening. A five year old threatening you is viewed different to you threatening a five year old no matter if the same was said because of an imbalance of power.”

Again, I agree.

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