have mentioned this on another thread but thought it a subject worthy of a thread on it's own basically,if I've worked it out right, the crimson horror is the 100th episode since the return. wonder how many people would have believed it would have passed that milestone and still be going strong when rusell first brought it back. Even though I didn't know what it was befre it came back I remember the buzz about it's return in the media, and the general consensus was that it would be short lived, and people scoffing at such things as casting a washed up pop star as the companion. I think the success was very much down to the effort's of russell t davies and without his input the naysayers may well have been right. what does anyone else think, did you expect the return to be successful back then??

does no one have any opinion's on the show's outstanding success or anecdote's about there thought's on hearing of it's return?

I think that it filled a niche and it worked because it was something from the parents' childhood that they could pass onto their children. Bridging the generation gap, if you will.

I think so to because anyone who had been a child in the generation immediately before the return were the first generation of people since 1963 to have not grown up with it around and the parent's could feel knowledgeable in introducing younger people to it. ( I say younger people and not kids because I was 17 when it came back but had still never had it growing up, yet everyone older seemed to know about it.)

I was apprehensive about whether it would be successful when it returned in 2005.
One thing I was personally sure of was that if it had looked or sounded anything like it had done in the late 1980s, it would almost certainly have failed.
Of course within a very few episodes I realised that my fears had been groundless, and was totally convinced that it would be OK, but I must say i never imagined even then that it would go on to become quite as "big" as it did!

There were a few things I immediately hated - the Police Box doors inside the TARDIS, the 'last of the timelords' thing, the 'next week'trailer at the end of each episode. But, strangely, they were some of the things I grew to really love.

I think Christopher Eccleston was a blinding choice and exactly the right lead actor to have made it a success, we owe him a lot despite his lack of engagement since then. It was just an acting role for him and by god he was "fantastic". Fair play dude.

the doors thing is that an RTD idea then?

RusselL T was undoubtedly a bold and ultimately brilliant choice.

Having grown up in the 70's and 80's, I'll admit, the more mature take, design elements and new back story took some getting used to. When introducing people to the show, I alway advise them to give it another shot after "Rose" because it's certainly not the strongest pilot. However, it's crucial to the over all arc of the characters. The show was wonky for me until The Empty Child. Then I fell in love with sci-fi all over again.

The Stolen Earth story is a season finale by which all other finale's should be judged, a perfect intersection of character and story and if Tennant decided to end it there, I couldn't have dreamt of a more fitting ending. Although I'm a Steve Moffet fan, the show lost some of it's emotional potency for me. Moffet is just a different story teller and for the day-to-day managing of Doctor Who, it doesn't hold the magic it once did. I can watch Family of Blood, the Satan Pit or Girl in the Fireplace over and over and never get tired of them. I can't think of one Matt Smith story I can revisit with such fondness, so I think Russell T's legacy helped turn Doctor Who into that something special that speaks to us all.

I liked the 'last of the timelords' thing. Made it more dramatic!

agree with all of the above, when people say moffat should go, other's think it's being mean for the sake of it but many of us remember the series 1-4 era where a competent story would be told and the show could break your heart at the same time, and wish we could have some of that magic back again. sad to say moffat's tenure has consitsed of him trying to show how clever he is, and getting himself tangled up in the process. (and before anyone say's it I know girl in the fireplace was his, and he can still do good singular ep's now, he just hasn't at all proved he can manage to do the arc's or emotion's properly)

It took me a few episodes to really warm to RTDs version of the show. But that was as much my fault and prejudice about what to expect. Having grown up only seeing the final days of Seven and then Eights brief flourish I had wondered for too long about what it should be like when it came back. And when it didn't match that I struggled at first. I cringed at the wheelie bin gags and the Slitheen and many things. It wasn't until Captain Jack arrived that I really thought 'This is really good!' and from then on it all clicked and I fell in love with it and I got what he was doing. And in retrospect I appreciated the earlier episodes more. It just took a bit of adjusting. I managed to look beyond the jarring pop culture references, even embrace them for what they were, and realise it was still the same old show deep down. Just different. The ultimate moment was the cliffhanger at the end of 'Bad Wolf' that led into 'The Parting of the Ways'. I was literally on the edge of my seat in a way no other TV show has ever managed. It was so epic and exciting and the way the arc drew together was captivating.

I also loved the last of the timelords theme. I'm glad its sort of over now but it worked perfectly. Rose was also amazing. As important an element of the shows success as any other.

I cant imagine anyone could have done a better job in bringing it back than RTD. Yes on balance Moffats vision is more to my taste and what I want from Doctor Who but its a close run thing. And I realise that its only thanks to RTD blazing such a trail that was got to have Moffats vision at all. It wouldn't have worked the other way around.

I think some people mistake 'emotion' for 'sentimental'. There is plenty of emotion in Moffats Who. But it isn't as sentimental. Not so keen to tug the heart strings. I think each writer has different strengths. I think Moffat is more plot led whereas RTD was sometimes more led by provoking an emotional reaction. But there are examples where the reverse is true. And lets not forget Moffat doesn't write everything. I think there have been episodes with more complex emotional elements in them in the Moffat era. Just not written by him. 'The Girl Who Waited' for instance is for me far moe satisfying on every level as an emotional piece of drama because it feels well earned and part of the story as opposed to 'lets just make them cry' which happened on occasion in the RTD era.

But then everyone will respond differently. I find 'The God Complex' infinitely more moving than say 'Planet of the Ood' or 'Doomsday'. But many wont.

Yep. I have no idea why no-one thought of this earlier. The absolutely instantaneous change from a thick white door with roundels to a thin blue wooden door never looked in any way convincing and it always annoys me a bit when I see it happen in a Classic Who episode.


I disagree with some people's sentiments that Doctor Who no longer has the emotion or the ability to tug at one's heart strings. The Doctor talking to Little Amelia in The Big Bang is a lovely scene, the Doctor saying goodbye to Idris in The Doctor's Wife is very moving, The Girl Who Waited is one of the most sublime pieces of television I've ever watched, and no episode has brought me closer to tears than Vincent and the Doctor and the scene where the curator man talks about Van Gogh using his pain and torment to create ecstatic beauty.

sentiment is an emotional response, so basically same thing. Just feel overall there was that spark in RTD's time that made you care more, although I agree that the end of 'the girl who waited was a good example of it.

on reflection when I talk about lack of emotion Im thinking of the majority of moffat's tenure, but day of the doctor and time of the doctor both seemed to have that resonance(especially old man doctor, so crippled with arthritis he couldn't pull a cracker) so im hoping that mean's that moffat has figured out how to do it consistently and if so then more reason to look forward to series 8

Personally think there's been plenty of emotion in the Matt Smith era and have got 'something in my eye, alright?' a number of times. A few that spring to mind; Amy losing her 'front' and showing the depth of her feelings for Rory after his (first!) death in 'Amy's Choice'; the end of 'Vincent...'; the cliffhanger to 'The Pandorica Opens'; the Doctor saying goodbye to a sleeping Amelia in 'The Big Bang'; the Doctor crying as 'Sexy' says goodbye; a number of scenes in 'The Girl Who Waited'; the last quarter of 'Time of the Doctor'....

Lots of others...maybe I'm going soft in my advancing years!

All brilliant examples!

to be honest apart from the girl who waited and time of the doctor, the rest don't fit into the emotional resonance category for me. whilst some of the other's you have listed are good stories, they did nothing for me emotionally, in those it was like they were trying to hard to do emotion but couldn't get it right. Similarly, the departure's of both rose and donna were like a huge emotional blow but the amy and rory departure just felt like some thing that was happening

Just a point about the doors before this thread becomes like every other here...

The idea to have the Tardis doors open out immediately onto the exterior in the modern series was a good one, it allows the drama to be more immediate than it was with the setup on the original series Tardis, where it was implied there was a sort of corridor between the control room and the exterior. As far as I know they never showed this on screen though.

The idea that the ship can project an atmosphere shell so the doors can be opened out into space is a good one too, you get some spectacular scenes there, even if it's mainly used for 11 to look up Amy Pond's nightie

I assume the only way it was set up with the "dead space" in the original series was they lacked the green screen technology to allow them to show the Tardis interior behind the characters every time they entered or exited.
It was probably much easier to assume the characters walked down a corridor to the control room instead of constantly worrying about the Tardis' real life police box interior ruining the amount of shots they could get of the Characters arriving at new worlds.

I'm just assuming this btw, if they've confirmed or contradicted this on a DVD commentary or behind the scenes special over the years, please let me know.

"Russell T Legacy" sounds like the name of a WWF Wrestler

Jenny 'dying' while on conference call in NOTD resonated with me, as did Matts goodbye dialogue to Clara in TOTD and the expiration of Handles.

I think I see what you mean blue box but I dont want to (!) i can think of a lot of emotional scenes, Michael Eve has listed great ones. I can't think of ones which resonated for a long time afterwards in terms of greater effect on the Who Story.

However the ponds leaving was certainly resonant as was Vincents scene for other reasons, very beautiful. None of Rivers scenes resonated for me in Elevens' era, she was too smug to make me want to care.

Everything I was about to post (but in a considerably better worded way )

There are indeed some episodes that seem to imply this "sort of corridor". The Claws of Axos is perhaps one instance of this, as there seems to be a short corridor between the TARDIS interior and exterior doors.

However, in the Hartnell era, there are several occasions where it is made plain that the doors open directly on to the exterior, and what look like thick white doors with roundels from inside the TARDIS look like Police Box doors from outside (The Edge of Destruction, The Sensorites, and The Web Planet, for example, all show this). This was usually done by shooting out of the TARDIS set onto a portion of the exterior set as the travellers went out, then cutting to a reverse shot on the exterior set with the Police Box prop in position behind them. The doors in this second shot would be closing, so that you could not see the TARDIS interior through them (as you say, this could not have been done convincingly with the technology available).

Later, in Pyramids of Mars, CSO is used to provide an outward-looking shot from within the TARDIS that seems to imply direct access to the outside ("1980, Sarah, if you want to get off"), and there may be others that I have forgotten.

The use of Police Box doors inside the TARDIS in the revived version has always seemed to me lazy and unimaginative. The very first episode was not afraid to have Barbara go through the external Police Box doors into an entirely alien environment in which the doors themselves have assumed an entirely different form. RTD funked it.

[The above is all done from memory, I'm afraid, so please excuse any errors of detail. I believe the general premise is sound.]

The RTD legacy is that he brought the show back but without Chris Eccleston being as brilliant as he was it may not have caight on and may have been for nothing.
Otherwise a lot of people will never agree on RTD's style or Moffat's, as we all know from endless threads. I'm one who prefers Moffat's more adult emotional content to RTD's more sentimental style but they've both had sublime moments and some dodgier ones, and who knows what we'll get next time...

Your memory is more or less right. There were indeed several stories where the doors opened and the camera looked straight out onto the landscape, but the exterior of the doors that you could see did not look like the Police Box doors but were identical to the interior doors, white with roundals. The obvious stories where a corridor is implied, is the Baker series where they used the wooden gothic control room. Every time the crew left the Tardis they appeared to have to leave the control room and go into a corridor. I can't recall a single time when they left this control room and walked straight outside the ship.
Personaly I love the way you just pull open the doors now and walk straight out. I hated that stupid big red lever that was used in the Davison era to open the door.