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Russell T legacy
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Simon_Foston
21-01-2014
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“yep, the only arc type thing during the moffat era which is coherent and dosen't take a thousand word's to explain the in's and out's of, and suprise, suprise, it's a leftover rusell idea”

Like I could explain what was going on in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End and The End of Time to a complete newcomer to Doctor Who in less than a thousand words? I think I might struggle.
lady_xanax
21-01-2014
Originally Posted by Simon_Foston:
“With regards to RTD's legacy, I haven't read through all the posts here yet but I haven't noticed this getting brought up - the Time War. It's really been interwoven through everything Steven Moffat has done. Every regeneration from Paul McGann to John Hurt onward has been connected to it in some way, and the whole cracks in the skin of the universe thing is inextricably linked to how the Time War actually ended. Gallifrey is still missing and we can assume future storylines will deal with its discovery, so we're not by any means done with the legacy of the Time War yet.”

Well the McGann one is the one they went back and re-did to fit with this War Doctor thing.
doctor blue box
21-01-2014
Originally Posted by Simon_Foston:
“Like I could explain what was going on in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End and The End of Time to a complete newcomer to Doctor Who in less than a thousand words? I think I might struggle.”

that's the thing, though Im not talking about a complete newcomer, I mean, even people who know about the show. If I met someone now who had only watched series 4 and no further, and they asked me to explain an overview of the story arc's from series 5 to time of the doctor, Im not sure I could do it coherently at all, despite having watched every episode within those series, and if I could, Im sure it would take a while and I would expect the asker to ask me to clarify the gap's in the information given which wouldn't be possible because no answer's for those gaps exist. If I was asked on series 1-4 I know if nothing else I would be able, based on what was shown on screen
to tell of four story arc's which started, were hinted at, and then were resolved within the same series, without multiple loose ends.
lady_xanax
21-01-2014
1000 words is quite a lot.

However from memory (with the caveat that I watched more of the RTD ones), I remember those being a lot easier to follow.
doctor blue box
22-01-2014
Originally Posted by lady_xanax:
“1000 words is quite a lot.

However from memory (with the caveat that I watched more of the RTD ones), I remember those being a lot easier to follow.”

yeah, that's kind off the point I'm trying to make. They were generally easier to follow, while in no way being less intelligent stories
Mulett
22-01-2014
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“yeah, that's kind off the point I'm trying to make. They were generally easier to follow, while in no way being less intelligent stories”

Yes, agree 100%. And I don't think its just the narrative that was less clear from season 5 onwards, but I think the relationship between the 11th Doctor and his companions became less clear too.

I simply didn't like the whole idea of him dropping in and out of their lives every now and again as they grew older, and not always in sequence.

For me the timey-whimey-ness of Seasons 5 onwards not only made the story arcs more difficult to follow, but also created a disconnect between the Doctor and Amy/Rory/Clara that actually became an emotional disconnect for me as a viewer.
doctor blue box
22-01-2014
Originally Posted by Mulett:
“Yes, agree 100%. And I don't think its just the narrative that was less clear from season 5 onwards, but I think the relationship between the 11th Doctor and his companions became less clear too.

I simply didn't like the whole idea of him dropping in and out of their lives every now and again as they grew older, and not always in sequence.

For me the timey-whimey-ness of Seasons 5 onwards not only made the story arcs more difficult to follow, but also created a disconnect between the Doctor and Amy/Rory/Clara that actually became an emotional disconnect for me as a viewer.”

yes, have to agree with everything here. You are completely in tune with how I myself feel. The companions bit, I hadn't really thought about but they (moffat era one's) are a bit unrealistic in that respect, it's like there offered to permanently travel the whole of time and space with him, and yet they think overall, a boring ordinary life with occasional trips is better. I don't believe, anyone given that opportunity would react like that. thing's like rose and donna wanting to travel forever with him no matter what rang true much more, and martha only stopped through choice because she felt she had to (traumatized family)
GDK
22-01-2014
Sorry to disagree but...

Neither set of companions were offered the "stay at home forever or travel with me forever" choice essentially because the Doctor has more control over the TARDIS in the new Who era.

Rose was able to visit home, as was Donna and Martha. Rose probably visited less frequently than the Ponds did towards the end of their tenure, but the issue isn't as black and white as you paint it.

Plus, if it was an either/or forever choice, which is more likely to say yes? A character embedded in family (RTD), or relatively isolated character (SM).

It's more believable to me that Amy would say yes than Rose.

It's also credible that Amy and Rory would, over time get more interested in their relationship with each other and wish to follow "real" lives than follow the Doctor.

In real life when people get to 30 and beyond (and especially when married) they tend to grow apart from their mad partygoing single friends.

You may find that sad if you're under 25, but it's generally true.
Mulett
22-01-2014
Originally Posted by GDK:
“It's also credible that Amy and Rory would, over time get more interested in their relationship with each other and wish to follow "real" lives than follow the Doctor.

In real life when people get to 30 and beyond (and especially when married) they tend to grow apart from their mad partygoing single friends. You may find that sad if you're under 25, but it's generally true.”

Yes, it is true (I'm 43).

But the issue for me isn't whether it was believable for Amy and Rory (and now Clara) to be dropped back home between adventures so they can carry on living their lives. For me, its whether it works for the show.

The point I was making was that for me, as a viewer, it just doesn't work emotionally. If there's a clear physical disconnect between the Doctor and his companion/s then there will be an emotional disconnect with the audience.

Visiting home every now and again is fine. But the Doctor regularly heading off on his own for several decades of solo adventures (while his companions pine away, waiting for him) just didn't tick my box.
DiscoP
22-01-2014
Originally Posted by Mulett:
“Yes, it is true (I'm 43).

But the issue for me isn't whether it was believable for Amy and Rory (and now Clara) to be dropped back home between adventures so they can carry on living their lives. For me, its whether it works for the show.

The point I was making was that for me, as a viewer, it just doesn't work emotionally. If there's a clear physical disconnect between the Doctor and his companion/s then there will be an emotional disconnect with the audience.

Visiting home every now and again is fine. But the Doctor regularly heading off on his own for several decades of solo adventures (while his companions pine away, waiting for him) just didn't tick my box.”

I was under the impression that Amy & Rory travelled pretty much exclusively with the Doctor until series 7a when he kept dropping them off home and several months would pass before seeing them again.

This seemed like an odd decision but apparently in the early stages of planning, what became series 7a was going to be another year of specials, with several months passing between episodes. In that context it would have made sense to me. Several months between adventures for the Ponds would be several months for us viewers.

I've no idea why they've kept to the same pattern with Clara though. I find it irritating because Moffat's episodes in particular feel quite rushed so it's frustrating that the Doctor has to spend several minutes at the start of each episode picking Clara up before the adventure can even begin.
GDK
22-01-2014
Originally Posted by Mulett:
“Yes, it is true (I'm 43).

But the issue for me isn't whether it was believable for Amy and Rory (and now Clara) to be dropped back home between adventures so they can carry on living their lives. For me, its whether it works for the show.

The point I was making was that for me, as a viewer, it just doesn't work emotionally. If there's a clear physical disconnect between the Doctor and his companion/s then there will be an emotional disconnect with the audience.

Visiting home every now and again is fine. But the Doctor regularly heading off on his own for several decades of solo adventures (while his companions pine away, waiting for him) just didn't tick my box.”

I understand your point.

I actually enjoy the fact we get more of a sense of the Doctor having many more adventures off screen without the companions we see on TV (in the SM era than in the RTD era).

Even if he's away 100s of years (from his PoV) he did/can return just moments or months after he left (from the stay-at-home companions' PoV). So the companiosn aren't really missing him. He comes back when they start to. That seems a bit more credible to me than to think we are following the Doctor's timeline more or less second by second.

I think the problem arises because the Doctor has more control over where the TARDIS goes than he had in classic "Who". I suspect the dodgy control of the TARDIS then was a convenient way of moving on to a random new adventure each time without having to explain why. It has the side effect of avoiding having to explain why the companions continued to travel with the Doctor (considering how dangerous it is). It's their best chance of eventually getting home (or at least somewhere safe).

More "Lost in Space" then and more "Star Trek" today.

I think RTD gave the Doctor more control over the TARDIS so he could have the companions embedded in a family situation to give the audience something they could relate to more easily.
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