Wow, I'd never stopped and analyzed my situation before, let alone put it into words but Liz's description last night of her own personal circumstances match exactly with what I'm currently going through. I wouldn't have even thought it was a condition which other people had experienced, I assumed it was just my way of seeing things but I feel better hearing Liz exactly describing my situation as that means it must be a genuine and perhaps common and curable condition.

If I can elaborate a bit, I am a male in my late 20s and I have isolated myself from getting into relationships and now am isolating myself from friends for the exact sort of reasons as Liz described as her reasons for not having sex until she was 32. So, my thinking is for example 'I will have a relationship/see my friends again in the future when I am the correct body shape/when I have a good haircut/when I have a nice wardrobe of clothes to wear/when I am confident/when I have a good job' etc etc. I haven't always thought this way, just gradually getting worse over the past few years. Bad enough to avoid relationships because of this thinking but to now be isolating myself from my previous friendships and potential new friendships because of it is very lonely indeed. I have many female friends who have tried to set me up with girls but I always make excuses when really I'm thinking 'I can't have a relationship now, I must wait until I'm the correct weight/until I have all the clothes I want/until I have a new TV' etc, basically 'I can't have a relationship until my life is perfect.'

Obviously this is in some way depression/anxiety/whatever related but I hadn't heard such a specific description which matched my exact scenario until Liz tonight. Is there anyone on here who has been through similar or is an expert in the relevant field - would it be psychology? - who could answer a few questions for me?

1. What would you call this? Is it some kind of perfectionism? Is that a word? I would understand people wanting perfection too much but why shy away from relationships and friendships because of the lack of perfection?

2. Where would this condition originate or stem from? What could possibly have occurred in childhood to cause this constant striving for unattainable levels of perfection?

3. How do I go about 'curing' this or at least regulating it to the point where it isn't ruining my life?


I have become a recluse over the last 6 months because of this and had believed it was simply 'depression' I was battling. Whilst I am fairly confident it is depression-related, this is the first time I have heard someone describe most of my specific issues so any information/help with regards to what Liz said would be appreciated. Thanks.

Please do not hesitate to ask if you require further information from me. I'm aware this probably isn't the correct thread for such discussion but most of the people in here will have heard Liz's original comments on the subject so will be best placed to know exactly what I'm talking about.

it could be very beneficial to contact Liz after the show, which I would have thought be quite easy to do, and she'd completely understand.

I am not qualified to give you the diagnosis that you want but I do know that many people struggle with these feelings to a greater or lesser degree. Much of it is linked to self esteem which, contrary to popular belief, is something that many outwardly confident people struggle with.

Perhaps it would be worth you copying the post into another more related forum as only BB viewers will see it here whereas you may get more members responding elsewhere...

Are you looking for a job with the Daily Mail ?

This is a terrible thing to suffer--and for so long. 'Perfection' Issues to 'earn/deserve' Love or Acceptance do begin in childhood, but teen years can make them worse. One day soon it will dawn on you that No One is Perfect, and YOU are a lot better than most. You seem a lovely sensitive person, so it is a shame you had to waste so much of Life feeling bad about yourself. Please do get some proper professional guidance--you're too good to 'lose' this way! Best wishes x

3. How do I go about 'curing' this or at least regulating it to the point where it isn't ruining my life?

Sorry to read this OP but if it has reached a stage where it interferes with your daily living you should seek professional advice and help .

I would discuss it with your doctor first and say you would like professional help from someone qualified in this field .
Same as we ask for specialist advice if we have some physical ailment.

Don't let him fob you off with any tablets . You need specialist help from a trained councillor, or psychotherapist etc.

I should have been more clear, I am in the early stages of seeking help for depression but it was the very specific nature of Liz's case matching mine (which I hadn't heard anyone describe before) which made me wonder if this was a different condition or a specific condition within the spectrum of depression.

Do you have any all-consuming interests?

I think it's called being an 'idealist'. You have a preconceived belief of what a perfect world should be, including how you and others should look/behave. Anything outside this picture can make you feel upset/angry/depressed because you feel the world simply should not be like this.

Any decisions you need to make have to fall in perfectly with your
"idealistic' beliefs or you can't make them. Your friends also have to behave in an idealistic way or you don't want to be with them. Which can leave you frozen, unable to make decisions or move in any direction because this is not a perfect world and people all go about things differently.

My suggestion is to develop a 'live and let live* attitude, be less judgemental and keep reminding yourself that no one is judging you except yourself. Lower your unrealistically high expectations.

Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.

Hi Doe,

Firstly, thank you for being so frank & honest. You are very brave.

To me, it all sounds like a deep seated "fear" of "rejection", both which are very real and like most fears and phobia's may not be logical but all the same are real for you & affecting your life.

You have already made the first move by recognising these fears & admitting your coping plan may not be quite what is needed.

So many kind people on here have said lovely things & I echo them. Go & see your doctor & just talk. It is a start.

(off topic, I have decided I will see my GP about my irrational fear of being in a car with my hubby. I can manage 5 mins max. To the point if I have to go on a longer journey I am violently sick before & worse if we have to come back. To visit my aunt, I have to go by train & be picked up at the station. Other peoples driving does not bother me. So completely irrational yet a very real fear for me that DOES affect my life. Because we know these "fears" are stupid and irrational, we don't qualify them as warrenting medical help. I'll go if you do.

)

{{{Hugz}}}

How do you mean?

I think it's just one presentation of general anxiety and depression which you both share. Anxiety and depression are terribly life-limiting and it's not easy to get the treatment right, but not impossible. Becoming 'a recluse' gets you into a vicious circle. I hope you find your way through it and things work out for you.

Are there subjects that keep you constantly preoccupied e.g. Liz and animal rights? Do you find that you become more animated when talking about certain things?

ETA: Or has someone else ever suggested this might be the case?

Continually striving for unattainable perfection can be a pretty miserable state of being and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I'm not qualified to answer your first two questions. As to the third one: counselling could help you. If you see your GP you may be referred to a counsellor. In my experience, typically you could be offered a 6 week course of CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) possibly extended to 12 weeks. CBT wouldn't really help you discover why you feel the way you do - it simply addresses the behaviours that are limiting your life and offers tools to change them.
If you're prepared to pay for longer term counselling, a counsellor working with a psychodynamic approach could help you find the answer to your second question and so help change thing for you 'from the inside out' - so to speak.

Good luck.

I haven't seen the entire series of Big Brother so I don't know in what way/to what extent Liz is obsessive about animal rights but I can't think of any comparable obsession in my case off the top of my head.

The creating obstacles and perfectionism sounded familiar, and I'm a bit Aspie (although not recognisably), and wondered if it was a symptom of this, especially as there are social implications and elevated anxiety.

Might have found a name, though, for the condition you are describing:

perfectionistic procrastination paralysis

I agree with peace....

I hope after you have spoke with your doctor he helps you along this tough road, we all have situations we feel we cannot control, but your problems seem to go much deeper , best wishes to you x

Yes, CBT works well for Depression and helps change ways of thinking about things so more promising and happier horizons are attainable. Please consider such options even if you don't 'feel like' trying them as they actually lift some of the darkness and can be a real way out of the rut. All the Best x

I think the OP would benefit from a course of CBT to look at their thinking and the behaviour they express. PM me if you want

Just saw that someone else suggest this!

Sorry that you're experiencing this. You have been given some great advice and I wish you all the best in tackling this problem. You have an awareness of your problem and you are taking steps to tackle it. These are all great signs that you can eventually beat it with the help of a professional.

I'm no expert but I would imagine the perfectionism has evolved as a form of avoidance. Our minds use all sorts of sneaky tricks to keep us from the situations we most fear. Your need to avoid close emotional relationships is probably far greater than your need for perfectionism. Perfectionism is just one of the many methods that can be used to avoid them. It is also a very convenient one as we all know that perfection can never be attained - thereby you have the perfect excuse of never facing your greatest fears - close emotional relationships.

I'm guessing that someone along the line has made you feel deeply hurt/insecure about yourself. If this is the case then hopefully you will come to see that that was their problem and not yours

Liz should be receiving help she is mentally ill. TV is not good for her.

I actually disagree, I think it has been good for her and she is certainly coming out of the shadows a little bit now, and of course seeing a lot of people who previously could not stand her now that they can see her as a real person many have changed their mind about her and speak far more positively about the Liz Jones columnist and Liz Jones the human being.I think she is quite a lovely person but she is fragile in some ways and quite sturdy in others.
Anyhow I think its possible that being in BB could be a turning point for her.

I think all depression stems from the same thing. Spending too much energy and time focusing on all the negativity in the world, or perceived weaknesses within the self. Comparing oneself with others, second guessing what other people think, self criticism, feelings of helplessness and overwhelm. I think everyone has these feelings to a degree, but it's the extent to which they impact on your life that determines whether you are depressed.

I agree with others who say get counselling/cognitive behavioural therapy as you can be helped with this. Problem with Liz is that she is attached to her insecurities and has made a very good living out of them. Who would she be without them? What would she write if she wasn't so insecure? Maybe she could write about overcoming her insecurities, but maybe she doesn't want to.

It's good that you can see you have a problem and want to get help. Many people live with problems like this for years and think they are stuck. You don't have to be.

Lots of lovely helpful posts here. I hope they've been helpful and you can find a way to get out of the rut that you're feeling OP.

Like others have said here though, there's always a way out and a light at the end of the tunnel. I think you've taken that first step in recognizing that something is wrong and Liz has helped you identify the problem and that you are not alone.

Good luck OP.