No problem. I acknowledge that none of them are truly ice dancing, and that what Ray is doing is "dancing, on ice". My point is that, for me, other couples are doing is closer to "ice dancing" - which is what I personally prefer. I wasn't trying to claim that they were doing pure ice dancing and singling him out for not doing.

If the show is about "dancing, on ice" (use of comma intentional and important!)then let's see them all trying to do that. It has a bit of an identity crisis I think

Personally I didn't notice, as I'm not a skater, but I remember Robin commenting on this, so let's hope it's something Ray will improve on over the series...


Frankly I thought Maria looked amazing! You make her sound like she's well past it!

I thought Kyran was brilliant as well, but for once I actually thought Jason had a point, in that he didn't do much dancing with Nina - his dancy bits were solo, when he was with Nina it was to do lifts and tricks etc.

Sorry, I attempted to word it to make it clear that wasn't my intent.

Beth's was lovely, but although her performance level has improved I doubt she will achieve the levels of expressiveness we see from Ray, Suzanne or Kyran. Actually, when Beth was skating I thought 'Imagine if Suzanne was dancing this' because Suzanne would have embodied a routine like that, for me Beth is still under par.

I don't think Suzanne could have accomplished that lift.

I preferred Beth's routine, cleaner and more expressive.

Ray's had everything going for it, but it looked disjointed and his transitions weren't up to his usual standard.

The apple strüdel stapled to poor Maria's head was very distracting.

Ray and Maria's performance this week was definitely my favourite of the night.

Ray is a talented guy, and whatever he does, he always tries to do to the utmost best of his ability; he also has loads of enthusiasm, but I don't see that this makes him arrogant, or over-confident, as mentioned in some posts above.

I think Ray and Maria look like they are doing ice dancing and most of the others look like they are doing pairs skating.

This has been covered above, ice dancing is similar to pair skating but without the high lifts and lengthy separations, it also does not include throws or unassisted jumps, but does include twizzles and step sequences. Out of all of this Ray and Maria do pretty much everything mentioned here if you look across their routines as a whole, as do the other partnerships to some extent - my understanding of this style when a mixture of these moves is included is that it is "adagio skating".

With Ray and Maria what you also get is the addition in many routines of proportionally more "dance moves" on the ice, largely with the use of toe picks and using the whole body to do dance moves whilst stationery on the ice. They are not alone in this, Kyran is certainly another example of it, though his penchant for "body popping" means his efforts in this area can look less versatile.

If you like this sort of approach then it can be appealing and it can certainly be called "dancing, on ice".

Ray has it all really.

What I love about him is that he glides so beautifully across the ice and incorporates so much "dancing on ice" into his routines.
He and Maria do less lifts than than others and more dancing. And it's not only with use of toe picks - he does dance properly on the ice too.

But it's his speed and sureness and expression and dance moves and flow over the ice that really make his performances so wonderful to watch.

Christopher Dean has said more than once that if Ray had started skating as a child he could have been a world champion ice skater...

For me there is just something about Ray on the ice that stands out.

She's probably just grateful that they didn't make her twerk.

Ray will win easily. He was fantastic on Sunday, the best skater, and best performer. Although i think Suzanne Shaw could perhaps be his biggest threat!

He can certainly skate, though routines like last werk' s would not befit serious competition. Once again I a! Not knocking nyone' s right to enjoy it, just giving a different prrspective. Good to have a proper discussion about it.

I agree his routines would not stand up to proper serious skating competitions - he is an amateur after all.

But an amateur who obviously had the potential to become a world class skating star had he been trained from an early age.

I've been a fan of Ice Dancing all my life - Chris and Jayne are my skating idols and Dancing on Ice is brilliant. So sad that this is the last series.

Ray should win the All Stars Series (IMHO) he is the best amateur Ice Dancer the show has ever seen - but I'm afraid he probably wont win because at the end of the day it's going to be a popularity contest. And some people dont take to Ray - which is unfathomable to me - but there you go. Personally I'm not bothered about liking personalities - I just want the best skater to win. And for me that's Ray!

I agree - it is nice to have a good debate about it all.

I can see you're saying Ray's an "amateur" in that he's not a skater trained from a young age (as opposed to the use of the term to describe someone who has trained from young but is not paid to skate, other than through sponsorship - which was Torvill and Dean's status back in the day). I can see that Ray probably would be able to skate competitively in that way had he started young. But I'm thinking that the character of his routines - and to a degree pretty much most of those we see DOI - would have to be very different in order to pass muster.

I must look fuddy-duddy to some of you in wanting DOI routines to look as much like competitive ones as possible, but it's just a personal taste thing I suppose.

Yes sorry - I meant amateur in the sense of being untrained..

I think maybe it would be a bit ambitious for the skating routines to be anywhere near to competition level given that skaters train for years to get up to that standard. I can understand you hoping for that though. It's so much more satisfying to watch good skating. It's why I am loving this All Stars show - we at least get some very good amateur skaters.

I marvel at how they do what they do at all though. When you think how little time they get to learn. Even the least skilled amongst them does incredibly well. I'm not sure I could even stand up on the ice.

My missus learnt to skate a bit, in her 30s, but never got to a really good standard. I know it would be expecting a lot for DOI contestants to get to that standard, I'd just like to see their routines have more of that character, if you see what I mean.

Just wanted to say that Chris said that Ray often skated intuitively on the correct blade edge, so he definitely uses the blades properly. I do think the choreography can have a lot to do with kicking up ice.

I agree on both counts!

And I think Chris recognises Rays natural talent.

I've just been watching the performance again (for the umpteenth time! ) it's so brilliant.

I just hope that if Ray doesnt win he stays in for as long as possible - so I can have the great joy of watching him skate for as long as possible!

According to Karen Barber all routines this week are based on a dance style and someone who saw Maria and Ray training today said the routine is 'cool and fast'. And according to the same person next week the couples choreograph their own routines! Not guaranteeing the accuracy of this as it is on Twitter but if true could prove interesting!

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Thanks for that info Amytigger - all sounds good!