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Old 25-01-2014, 15:30
wakey
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you be shocked how many think so, just like people think that Apple invented MP3 players or smart phones.

Sure Apple did produce the first decent smart phone and because of Apple we are now where we are with smart phones. Saying that someone else would have come out with the idea.

Not sure about MP3 players to be hones, i suppose Apple did make them more popular
It happens in most industries, it doesn't matter being first its important being first to get it right. The ereaders before simply didn't get every part of the hardware, software, ease of use and the store integration right where Amazon did.

It was the same with Apple with both the smartphone and the MP3 player. There were plenty of both before but apple just got the complete package right.

And its easy to say afterwards that someone else would have done it as everything done with these products is so simple but I'm not sure tbh. Other had plenty of time to come up with the ideas that made these and other products successful and they didn't. Seems simple ideas are the hardest to come up with.

Is it possible to amazon in a bad light? since they have done that themselves.
What because like most companies they choose to pay less tax? You do realise mostnof the other firms in the market do that. Rakuten who own Kobo also own Play.com who reveled in using Jerseys tax situation and when the loophole was fixed pulled out as a retailer.

I prefer my Kobo and i still think it is a better product than the kindle, yes I do agree that some books are more expensive, I had a look after reading some of the messages on this thread, My hitchhickers guide to the galaxy was slightly cheaper on the kindle, but to be honest I rather pay a bit more to kobo than pay amazon for ever more for books.

I thought amazon was a good company, useful and used to use it a lot, but over the last 12 months or so I have used it less and now buy most of my Cd's elsewhere. I even tend to look in other places for other products now, I only use amazon if I really have to.
Slightly cheaper. Its almost 10 cheaper which is about 45%.
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Old 25-01-2014, 15:42
bobcar
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What because like most companies they choose to pay less tax? You do realise mostnof the other firms in the market do that. Rakuten who own Kobo also own Play.com who reveled in using Jerseys tax situation and when the loophole was fixed pulled out as a retailer.
So you're saying that companies like Waterstones and W H Smith pay the same low levels of tax as Amazon? I'd be surprised if that were true though I don't actually know.
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Old 25-01-2014, 15:43
wakey
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You're playing with words.

All the other devices and books are interchangeable with everyone else except Amazon. If Amazon wanted to they could easily have Kindle play ePub with DRM and allow others to read Amazon books, they don't do this because they want people to be tied into Kindle and Amazon books.
Do you actually know that the ePub owners would be willing to licence their format to Amazon? They can't just add ePub to a kindle, they need to licence it and pay a fee for every device. They most likely would also have to pay Adobe too as not all ePub are interchangeable.

And the same could be said about those who choose ePub. They could have licensed amazons format but just as much want to keep their customers away from Amazon. Amazon most likely would have been happy to take get a fee per device sold and a fee per book to supplement their existing income as well as making it easier to sell books themselves to others seeing as they make very little on the hardware.
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Old 25-01-2014, 15:47
wakey
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So you're saying that companies like Waterstones and W H Smith pay the same low levels of tax as Amazon? I'd be surprised if that were true though I don't actually know.
With High street stores its a little different as its harder to play the system but they will be paying a lower tax rate than an Indie bookshop pays. No-one has a duty to pay the max tax possible, the duty is to pay the least amount you are legally able to.
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Old 25-01-2014, 21:42
noise747
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It happens in most industries, it doesn't matter being first its important being first to get it right. The ereaders before simply didn't get every part of the hardware, software, ease of use and the store integration right where Amazon did.
It have taken others a bit of time to catch up, but they have now, the problem with Amazon is that once they got your info, they seem intent in spamming you. I have tried loads of time to stop them sending me emails.
I do get emails from Kobo, but only about books, not about other parts of their businses
I bet the reason why amazon wants me to combine my Lovefilm account with them is so they can send me more spam.

Also, when I did ask kobo to stop sending me their emails they did,

It was the same with Apple with both the smartphone and the MP3 player. There were plenty of both before but apple just got the complete package right.

And its easy to say afterwards that someone else would have done it as everything done with these products is so simple but I'm not sure tbh. Other had plenty of time to come up with the ideas that made these and other products successful and they didn't. Seems simple ideas are the hardest to come up with.
But it would have happened eventually, maybe something better would have come, who can say that Apple Iphone mucked up the smart phone market and we could have something better/

What because like most companies they choose to pay less tax? You do realise mostnof the other firms in the market do that. Rakuten who own Kobo also own Play.com who reveled in using Jerseys tax situation and when the loophole was fixed pulled out as a retailer.
Not just the Tax, but seems to change their rules when they see fit, also getting too large and powerful.



Slightly cheaper. Its almost 10 cheaper which is about 45%.
I don't know where you are looking them, because going by that, if I got the book from Amazon, they would be paying me if it is 45% cheaper than Kobo.

I think that you are a amazon plant in this forum or you work for them
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Old 25-01-2014, 21:53
noise747
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It's great that there are a range of different readers on the market so we can all get the one that we want

There is one thing I like about the kobo devices, the ability to display the cover of the book that you're reading on the lock screen. I wish that the kindle had that.
Not that important to be honest, but nice.
I just find the Kobo is nicer to hold and don't have those silly flipper switches that Kindle have. ok with touch screen now, Kindlle may have got rid of them.

I'll probably end up getting the aura HD at some point. I'm holding out for Amazon to make their own luxury reader, but I might just have to go for the HD one of these days.
I will stay with what I got now unless it goes wrong, no sense in spending more money on another reader.

I think that amazon will eventually push their subscription service more, they got it in with prime at the moment, and they do try and push prime a lot. So watch out that they don't change the system and get rid of the buying of individual books.
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Old 25-01-2014, 23:28
neo_wales
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It have taken others a bit of time to catch up, but they have now, the problem with Amazon is that once they got your info, they seem intent in spamming you. I have tried loads of time to stop them sending me emails.
I do get emails from Kobo, but only about books, not about other parts of their businses
I bet the reason why amazon wants me to combine my Lovefilm account with them is so they can send me more spam.

Also, when I did ask kobo to stop sending me their emails they did,


But it would have happened eventually, maybe something better would have come, who can say that Apple Iphone mucked up the smart phone market and we could have something better/


Not just the Tax, but seems to change their rules when they see fit, also getting too large and powerful.




I don't know where you are looking them, because going by that, if I got the book from Amazon, they would be paying me if it is 45% cheaper than Kobo.

I think that you are a amazon plant in this forum or you work for them
You've really fallen off the wagon there, the person has been a member for a decade or more...plant for Amazon? I'd laugh if the statement was in fact not such a sad one.
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Old 25-01-2014, 23:43
noise747
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You've really fallen off the wagon there, the person has been a member for a decade or more...plant for Amazon? I'd laugh if the statement was in fact not such a sad one.
It was a joke. not meant to be taken seriously. Maybe I should have used a smiley, but they are so over used, your favourite one have vanished thank goodness.
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Old 25-01-2014, 23:56
neo_wales
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No, I don't believe it was a joke. You believe Google are spying on you, tracking you, China is spying on talktalk users et al so why not believe Amazon plant 'moles' on forums; it would fit your profile really
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Old 26-01-2014, 01:01
wakey
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It have taken others a bit of time to catch up, but they have now, the problem with Amazon is that once they got your info, they seem intent in spamming you. I have tried loads of time to stop them sending me emails.
I do get emails from Kobo, but only about books, not about other parts of their businses
I bet the reason why amazon wants me to combine my Lovefilm account with them is so they can send me more spam.

Also, when I did ask kobo to stop sending me their emails they did,
As I've already said I'm pretty sure they want to combine your Amazon and Lovefilm accounts because they don't want to have to be running two separate authentication systems. Its just wasteful of resources. Its also imho a move to get ready for the day that Lovefilm closes shop, the rental market is shrinking so there will be a point where they get out of it and goto a streaming only service. When that happens there is little point in keeping the lovefilm name when they can bring it in line with Amazon.com and make it part of Prime

Oh and you can turn the emails off or configure them to suit your needs. It in your Amazon account settings

But it would have happened eventually, maybe something better would have come, who can say that Apple Iphone mucked up the smart phone market and we could have something better/
I'm not sure it would have anytime soon. The existing players in the market were stuck in a rut really and it needed an outsider with strong leadership to come in with a fresh eye and see the simple things that were right under the others noses to revolutionise the market. I'm not sure there were (or are) many other companies in the position to have stepped in and without Apple I'm not sure Google would have even considered it a possible marketplace for themselves (And MS would still be toiling with porting a version of windows to phones rather than an operation solely designed for mobiles)

Not just the Tax, but seems to change their rules when they see fit, also getting too large and powerful.
But what company doesn't change their rules when it suits them. Every licence agreement you agree to to use a service grants that right. And again the likes of Kobo aren't some small indie firm, they are an arm of a major multi national congealment.

Its why I find this anti Amazon stance due to them being 'big' strange as it doesn't tally with the rest of your comments

I don't know where you are looking them, because going by that, if I got the book from Amazon, they would be paying me if it is 45% cheaper than Kobo.
Kobo 21.59
http://store.kobobooks.com/en-US/ebo...rilogy-of-five

Amazon 12.06
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitchhikers-...+to+the+galaxy

Amazons RRP is less than Kobo's actual price

I think that you are a amazon plant in this forum or you work for them
What because I'm pointing out the faults in your 'Amazon is big, evil and restrictive' while 'Kobo is small, good and open' argument?
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Old 26-01-2014, 07:41
AKW
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I use a Nook Simple Touch that I picked up when they were 29. For the price it's fantastic.
Same here, very good e reader.
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Old 26-01-2014, 08:55
LostFool
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I got the complete HHG on Kindle for 2.99 at one point last year. I already have all of the print books but it's nice having the e-book version so that I can dip into it Guide at random points when I've got nothing else I want to read.

Kindle books do bounce around in price a lot so you just have to keep your eyes open for the deals. I almost never pay more than a fiver for an ebook.
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Old 26-01-2014, 09:19
noise747
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No, I don't believe it was a joke. You believe Google are spying on you, tracking you, China is spying on talktalk users et al so why not believe Amazon plant 'moles' on forums; it would fit your profile really
oh get lost.
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Old 26-01-2014, 09:36
noise747
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As I've already said I'm pretty sure they want to combine your Amazon and Lovefilm accounts because they don't want to have to be running two separate authentication systems. Its just wasteful of resources. Its also imho a move to get ready for the day that Lovefilm closes shop, the rental market is shrinking so there will be a point where they get out of it and goto a streaming only service. When that happens there is little point in keeping the lovefilm name when they can bring it in line with Amazon.com and make it part of Prime

If it was the case of not wanting to run two authentication systems, then why are they not forcing it? I do get reminded about it when I log in, but it is not forced onto me and from the email I got, it is not going to be. Saying that I suppose at some point when enough have changed their account to Amazon, they will force it on us.

They may lose a fair few customers if they make it streaming only, I know many people who still have DVD/Blue-rays from lovefilm and don't use streaming even if it is in their package. I don't even have streaming in my package. I did have a tiral of their streaming a couple of years back, but i was not that impressed with it, certainly not a patch on netflix.

I am getting pretty close to closing lovefilm account anyway, i only keep it for documentaries,
Oh and you can turn the emails off or configure them to suit your needs. It in your Amazon account settings

They are off, but they still send me stuff. Still at least they stopped sending me stuff though the post to try and get other people to join.

I'm not sure it would have anytime soon. The existing players in the market were stuck in a rut really and it needed an outsider with strong leadership to come in with a fresh eye and see the simple things that were right under the others noses to revolutionise the market. I'm not sure there were (or are) many other companies in the position to have stepped in and without Apple I'm not sure Google would have even considered it a possible marketplace for themselves (And MS would still be toiling with porting a version of windows to phones rather than an operation solely designed for mobiles)
I suppose we will never know, but I remember MS attempts at phones, do i just, I got a old HTC phone, the one with a sliding out keyboard, I can't remember the model number, anyway I got it via Bt and it was so slow and cumbersome.


But what company doesn't change their rules when it suits them. Every licence agreement you agree to to use a service grants that right. And again the likes of Kobo aren't some small indie firm, they are an arm of a major multi national congealment.

Its why I find this anti Amazon stance due to them being 'big' strange as it doesn't tally with the rest of your comments
kobo is not as large as Amazon and they don't seem to link Kobo with Play, which is a surprise I must admit.


Kobo 21.59
http://store.kobobooks.com/en-US/ebo...rilogy-of-five

Amazon 12.06
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitchhikers-...+to+the+galaxy

Amazons RRP is less than Kobo's actual price
ah well, I did not buy the five, I got one book.

What because I'm pointing out the faults in your 'Amazon is big, evil and restrictive' while 'Kobo is small, good and open' argument?
It was a joke, we all got out opinions.

I will stick with Kobo, you can stick with your amazon.

I prefer the Kobo e-reader anyway than the kindle, so that is all that matters at the end of the day.
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Old 26-01-2014, 09:41
noise747
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I got the complete HHG on Kindle for 2.99 at one point last year. I already have all of the print books but it's nice having the e-book version so that I can dip into it Guide at random points when I've got nothing else I want to read.

Kindle books do bounce around in price a lot so you just have to keep your eyes open for the deals. I almost never pay more than a fiver for an ebook.
I never pay more than a fiver either,
i have never read the HHG, I have listened to the radio versions, tape versions and watched the TV series and film, but never read the book until now.
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Old 26-01-2014, 09:55
Stig
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Do you actually know that the ePub owners would be willing to licence their format to Amazon? They can't just add ePub to a kindle, they need to licence it and pay a fee for every device. They most likely would also have to pay Adobe too as not all ePub are interchangeable.

And the same could be said about those who choose ePub. They could have licensed amazons format but just as much want to keep their customers away from Amazon. Amazon most likely would have been happy to take get a fee per device sold and a fee per book to supplement their existing income as well as making it easier to sell books themselves to others seeing as they make very little on the hardware.
Isn't ePub a free and open standard?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPUB
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Old 26-01-2014, 11:01
mred2000
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Isn't ePub a free and open standard?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPUB
Yep...
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Old 26-01-2014, 12:01
wakey
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Isn't ePub a free and open standard?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPUB
There are a lot of Free and Open standards that have to be paid to use commercially as Free when it comes to software licences comes in a number of levels. I would be highly surprised if a licence isn't technically needed to include an ePub encoder in commercial software or a decoder in, certainly if your shipping more than a certain number of units which its pretty safe to say Amazon would be over pretty much any figure chosen.

They may be one of the rare cases where the charge but as someone who works around the software development field I just can't see a standard that so many large commercial entities use not charging something for it.

However even if it was free Amazon would have to be paying Adobe if they wanted their devices to be compatible with other stores and their books to be compatible with other devices. After all Apple use the ePub format for iBooks but their books can only be used in iBooks and iBooks can't read DRM ePub from elsewhere
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Old 26-01-2014, 13:01
wakey
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If it was the case of not wanting to run two authentication systems, then why are they not forcing it? I do get reminded about it when I log in, but it is not forced onto me and from the email I got, it is not going to be. Saying that I suppose at some point when enough have changed their account to Amazon, they will force it on us.

They may lose a fair few customers if they make it streaming only, I know many people who still have DVD/Blue-rays from lovefilm and don't use streaming even if it is in their package. I don't even have streaming in my package. I did have a tiral of their streaming a couple of years back, but i was not that impressed with it, certainly not a patch on netflix.

I am getting pretty close to closing lovefilm account anyway, i only keep it for documentaries,
As you said when they have a certain number who have made the swicth they will force it.

And they won't make it streaming only right now but physical rentals are falling and they are clearly getting ready for when its no longer financially viable. They have already started that with the removal of prepaid accounts which allows them to pull the service with a months notice and the price increase seems to have been an attempt to keep that part profitable for them for a bit longer as at this point there will still be people on prepaid accounts (mine runs out next month for example)


They are off, but they still send me stuff. Still at least they stopped sending me stuff though the post to try and get other people to join.
If they are all off you should only be getting items you are subscribed to. I believe there's somewhere to manage these in the account settings

kobo is not as large as Amazon and they don't seem to link Kobo with Play, which is a surprise I must admit.
Maybe not but with their revenue figures Ratuken aren't some minor company that your supporting.

ah well, I did not buy the five, I got one book.
Even the single books are the same. 4.91 on Kobo and 2.99 on Amazon. It actually seems none of the ePub stores are really willing to be competitive on price as the pricing is generally fairly standard across them and that consistently. Which is a shame as in many ways the trick people into buying the devices with their cheaper priced hardware and then gauge them on content. Its not like many of the ePub sellers don't have Amazons buying power so it seems more greed.


And again I've said all through the thread that the Kobo is a decent bit of hardware, if that was solely your argument for having one then that would be fine. I've only had an issue with your additional reasons you have put forward
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Old 26-01-2014, 15:35
neo_wales
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Another joke? lol
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Old 26-01-2014, 15:44
bobcar
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With High street stores its a little different as its harder to play the system but they will be paying a lower tax rate than an Indie bookshop pays. No-one has a duty to pay the max tax possible, the duty is to pay the least amount you are legally able to.
So if I buy from Waterstones or W H Smith then I know they are paying more taxes, that's a good reason to buy from them. When it comes to real books some companies (such as Wordery) pay taxes and undercut Amazon so win win.
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Old 26-01-2014, 16:15
IvanIV
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However even if it was free Amazon would have to be paying Adobe if they wanted their devices to be compatible with other stores and their books to be compatible with other devices. After all Apple use the ePub format for iBooks but their books can only be used in iBooks and iBooks can't read DRM ePub from elsewhere
Amazon owns Mobipocket, so they'd be silly to switch to something they would have to pay for. Especially if they are doing rather well. Speaking of Apple and prices, Amazon behaves as a classic competitor, pushing prices down to undercut the competition, which makes the publishers unhappy. Apple OTOH was pushing prices up with cooperation with publishers, securing the best deal for themselves.
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Old 26-01-2014, 19:20
wakey
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So if I buy from Waterstones or W H Smith then I know they are paying more taxes, that's a good reason to buy from them. When it comes to real books some companies (such as Wordery) pay taxes and undercut Amazon so win win.
Actually you don't know for certain, I said when you have physical shops its harder to play the system but that doesn't mean it can't and isn't done. If the tax issue is important to you then its something you need to look into each company carefully.

For example some of these highstreet stores have their online operations run separately with like Amazon as much of it as possible operated abroad so they can skip tax.

There are so many ways of legally 'hiding' income to reduce tax liability that they all use, its just Amazon/Starbucks/Vodafone/etc method was perhaps more obvious and when the media was looking for story it was an easy one to understand to get people in uproar.

It should also be noted that the high street stores arent adverse to using the the governments 'back to work schemes' for unskilled jobs so there are no wages (or tax/NI) to pay and they also get payment for letting these people work for them for free. This is just as bad really, Tescos who are about to launch an ebook store via their Blinkbox service are one of the worse abusers of this

They really all are as 'guilty' as each other, not that they are really guilty of anything but doing what they are supposed to do and pay the least tax they are legally entitled to pay while providing their shareholders with the bext return
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Old 26-01-2014, 22:24
LostFool
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So if I buy from Waterstones or W H Smith then I know they are paying more taxes, that's a good reason to buy from them. When it comes to real books some companies (such as Wordery) pay taxes and undercut Amazon so win win.
It seems strange to hold up Waterstones and W H Smith for ethical behaviour when they are responsible for the closure of many small independent bookshops between them.
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Old 26-01-2014, 23:54
mred2000
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It seems strange to hold up Waterstones and W H Smith for ethical behaviour when they are responsible for the closure of many small independent bookshops between them.
Waterstones more so than anyone else. Case in point: Bolton used to have two very popular indie bookshops that existed happily alongside a WHS in the town centre.
Waterstones came along and put paid to both of them. At least some of the staff from the smaller of the two stores got jobs at the Waterstones in its early days.
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