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Vodafone and O2 4G experience thread
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Stereo Steve
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“There could be differences with power levels because of spectrum and how surrounding sites are configured/upgraded. I'm no expert on this but I can't imagine Vodafone and O2 settings things up identically.”

Thanks. I'll probably just stick where I am then. Works pretty well and I like the Honor 7 aside from it being too big. Hopefully by the time the iPhone 7 comes out, EE will have 800 rolled out and it will be functional and I'll be able to choose between that or the SE, depending. What I actually want is an iPhone 7SE.
jonmorris
11-06-2016
Deleted
Skippy2005
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“There could be differences with power levels because of spectrum and how surrounding sites are configured/upgraded. I'm no expert on this but I can't imagine Vodafone and O2 settings things up identically.”

I was lead to believe the upgraded CTIL site where the same power output as everything is shared apart from the backhaul and frequencies. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks.
mobilecentre
11-06-2016
I thought CTIL is a joint infrastructure project where the sites are shared but each network uses their own equipment.
Everything Goes
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by interactiv-uk:
“The East of England is a different story with massive improvements in areas that were previously 2G only. Loads of new masts have been activated as well hitting previously uncovered areas. I have driven from north of Newcastle to south of London locked to 4G and streamed tune in the whole way with no drops. O2's rollout seems far more advanced than Vodafones which is the west up to the north of Glasgow. O2 have even built the first 4G site on Orkney so the Scotland rollout is happening now.”

I have been looking at this tread and it does appear most of the upgrades are taking place south of the border
Pedro_C
11-06-2016
CTIL is a lot more complicated than this.
Each operator has complete control over what they want to broadcast, ie if Vodafone want GPRS 1800Mhz in an area and O2 4G 1800MHz then they can and do (Trowell Service mast for example).

Sometimes CTIL is more of a building/mast sharer and all the equipment is completely separate and sometimes, in contrast, they use MORANs and both use the same equipment (though still keep full individual control)
Skippy2005
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by Pedro_C:
“CTIL is a lot more complicated than this.
Each operator has complete control over what they want to broadcast, ie if Vodafone want GPRS 1800Mhz in an area and O2 4G 1800MHz then they can and do (Trowell Service mast for example).

Sometimes CTIL is more of a building/mast sharer and all the equipment is completely separate and sometimes, in contrast, they use MORANs and both use the same equipment (though still keep full individual control)”

Pretty straight forward then lol. Pedro you seem to be the man in the know, does o2 have plans to move another 5mhz over to 3G900? Could they then in theory move 5mhz of 2100 over to 4G?

Lastly in the auction coming how would o2 use 2300mhz am I right in saying it is being sold unpaired? Or do you think they'd likely go for ultra high capacity 3.4ghz for some indoors but for mainly outdoor coverage and rely on 800/1800 for indoor? Your take on it would be valuable to know . Thanks
M1kos
11-06-2016
3400 is just a waste of time it will propagate so poorly it would not be worth the effort or expense imo
Denco1
11-06-2016
3.4GHz really would have no purpose outside of distributed antenna systems or Pico/femto cells. I doubt handset vendors would ever contain chipsets/antennas which did cellular frequencies that high too.
It may well be used for wireless broadband ala UK Broadband, or it might be useful for 5G networks?
Stereo Steve
11-06-2016
I guess the problem with 3G 900 is not the tech, it's the lack of backhaul. So I guess once that is sorted they will surely use that capacity for 4G and leave enough 900 for 2G?. At the moment, what little backhaul O2 have in non-upgraded areas must be prioritised for voice so 2/3G it makes little difference. I can't see the point of switching more 900 to 3G. It's pretty much obsolete.

If anything they will leave it on 2G and maybe re-farm it for 5G?
lightspeed2398
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by Denco1:
“3.4GHz really would have no purpose outside of distributed antenna systems or Pico/femto cells. I doubt handset vendors would ever contain chipsets/antennas which did cellular frequencies that high too.
It may well be used for wireless broadband ala UK Broadband, or it might be useful for 5G networks?”

Agree generally that it's useless but considering the trend is towards small cells in cities there is maybe room for it in ultra high demand locations. Pick up 40MHz of it cheap and just stick that anywhere with stupid levels of demand. Major stumbling block is phone support I'd say. But as an alternative to LTE-U seems ok.
Skippy2005
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by lightspeed2398:
“Agree generally that it's useless but considering the trend is towards small cells in cities there is maybe room for it in ultra high demand locations. Pick up 40MHz of it cheap and just stick that anywhere with stupid levels of demand. Major stumbling block is phone support I'd say. But as an alternative to LTE-U seems ok.”

I thought that with 3.4 if I'm honest. The little I've read it seems o2 and 3 are desperate for 2300 but given their is only 40mhz and its (I'm sure) unpaired they'd have to bid for 2x1x10mhz to pair it. Am i right or way way out?

Or is it a case of put a plaster over the crack until 700mhz comes along?
Skippy2005
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“I guess the problem with 3G 900 is not the tech, it's the lack of backhaul. So I guess once that is sorted they will surely use that capacity for 4G and leave enough 900 for 2G?. At the moment, what little backhaul O2 have in non-upgraded areas must be prioritised for voice so 2/3G it makes little difference. I can't see the point of switching more 900 to 3G. It's pretty much obsolete.

If anything they will leave it on 2G and maybe re-farm it for 5G?”

Me theory was if 2x10 @ 900 was on 3G for calls and data then 2100 could be moved to 4G for the capacity o2 is desperate for
Denco1
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by lightspeed2398:
“Agree generally that it's useless but considering the trend is towards small cells in cities there is maybe room for it in ultra high demand locations. Pick up 40MHz of it cheap and just stick that anywhere with stupid levels of demand. Major stumbling block is phone support I'd say. But as an alternative to LTE-U seems ok.”

Very true. There's so much 3.4GHz available for auction that it's bound to be cheap and plentiful. Would be great for places like Canary Wharf.
Denco1
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“I thought that with 3.4 if I'm honest. The little I've read it seems o2 and 3 are desperate for 2300 but given their is only 40mhz and its (I'm sure) unpaired they'd have to bid for 2x1x10mhz to pair it. Am i right or way way out?

Or is it a case of put a plaster over the crack until 700mhz comes along?”

The 2.3GHz band is allocated as unpaired spectrum, they use a different variant of LTE called TDD-LTE instead of FDD-LTE. This uses the same spectrum block for uplink and downlink, so it doesn't need to be paired.
Skippy2005
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by Denco1:
“The 2.3GHz band is allocated as unpaired spectrum, they use a different variant of LTE called TDD-LTE instead of FDD-LTE. This uses the same spectrum block for uplink and downlink, so it doesn't need to be paired.”

Argh I see.... Forgive me I'm not up on this. So o2 and 3 could each get 20mhz that's interesting given they don't have any high capacity spectrum more so o2
Denco1
11-06-2016
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“Argh I see.... Forgive me I'm not up on this. So o2 and 3 could each get 20mhz that's interesting given they don't have any high capacity spectrum more so o2”

Yes, they could do exactly that if they wish.
lightspeed2398
12-06-2016
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“Argh I see.... Forgive me I'm not up on this. So o2 and 3 could each get 20mhz that's interesting given they don't have any high capacity spectrum more so o2”

They could get 20MHz each but the people with the money Vodafone & EE are equally likely to want spectrum as well, just not with such a great short term need as o2 & Three. But both Telefonica and Hutch aren't too keen on the UK market at the moment so how much money are the parents going to supply would be a factor to think about.

10MHz each between the four wouldn't really be that much really, so unless it was super easy/cheap for them to rollout I'd question how much it would be used on a general basis save for the most congested masts.

Just on the difference between FDD & TDD as well, the way I understand it is that FDD has a slight coverage advantage for the same frequency than TDD but TDD because it allows the ratio between download and upload to be adjusted allows for greater/more flexible capacity in areas.
Skippy2005
12-06-2016
Originally Posted by lightspeed2398:
“They could get 20MHz each but the people with the money Vodafone & EE are equally likely to want spectrum as well, just not with such a great short term need as o2 & Three. But both Telefonica and Hutch aren't too keen on the UK market at the moment so how much money are the parents going to supply would be a factor to think about.

10MHz each between the four wouldn't really be that much really, so unless it was super easy/cheap for them to rollout I'd question how much it would be used on a general basis save for the most congested masts.

Just on the difference between FDD & TDD as well, the way I understand it is that FDD has a slight coverage advantage for the same frequency than TDD but TDD because it allows the ratio between download and upload to be adjusted allows for greater/more flexible capacity in areas.”

Thanks for all your info guys. Does the iPhone 6s Plus do CA with 800/1800or 2100
lightspeed2398
12-06-2016
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“Thanks for all your info guys. Does the iPhone 6s Plus do CA with 800/1800or 2100”

Will do 800 + 1800 and 800+2600 on VF/o2 where being used but CA with 2100 is a bit of a rarer beast.
Skippy2005
12-06-2016
Originally Posted by lightspeed2398:
“Will do 800 + 1800 and 800+2600 on VF/o2 where being used but CA with 2100 is a bit of a rarer beast.”

Cheers your knowledge is valuable as always. No 4G1800/2100 here yet on Voda.
frejus19
13-06-2016
Sorry if I've asked this before (can't search my posts so I'm not certain), but are O2 planning on introducing VoLTE any time soon, and will it be available on Tesco Mobile? My phone can't support VoLTE anyway, but my partner's can and I was curious to hear if it was going to become available.
Skippy2005
13-06-2016
Originally Posted by frejus19:
“Sorry if I've asked this before (can't search my posts so I'm not certain), but are O2 planning on introducing VoLTE any time soon, and will it be available on Tesco Mobile? My phone can't support VoLTE anyway, but my partner's can and I was curious to hear if it was going to become available.”

From what I've read from o2 they 'should' be introducing it at some point this year along with wifi calling. As for Tesco I can only assume the answer would be yes as 4G is more efficient at handling calls and takes load away from 3G900/2100.
mrMick
13-06-2016
It's typically main networks that get VoLTE access first. I'm not aware of any MVNOs that have it.
Bentoni
13-06-2016
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“From what I've read from o2 they 'should' be introducing it at some point this year along with wifi calling. As for Tesco I can only assume the answer would be yes as 4G is more efficient at handling calls and takes load away from 3G900/2100.”

Vodafone has been talking about 4G Calling since 2014, and even their HD calling page talks about 4G calling as well. But still nothing at the moment, and we are already entering the second half of 2016
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