that is why O2 are probably rolling out the 4G1800 with 4G800 on every mast as they are planning to switch VoLTE and have the 4G800 on full power. Voda are doing similar thing rolling 4G2600, 4G2100,4G1800 and 4G800 as they will switch soon VoLTE and I think 4G800 will be full power

That does mean a lot of users without VoLTE would lose 800 and that could be devastating.

Yes, I'm pretty sure VO2 cannot do the same as Three & EE and only allow VoLTE handsets onto LTE 800 ; hence why they're both improving their UMTS 900 at the same time. Too many non VoLTE handsets around today, may change in next 3 to 5 years.

If only we could turn back the clock and make it so data and voice was independently shown, so 4G could have been full power from the off.

People could see when they had gone beyond 2G or 3G for voice, and as time went on and handsets got VoLTE, the voice coverage would exceed.

4G sites could have been full power from day one.

Or just not release 4G/LTE until voice was actually ready?

4G came just in time to many dense urban areas; if 3G was the data layer today, I would suggest extreme congestion in certain areas.

In a competitive market that was never going to happen, sadly. 4G was a cash cow to begin with, being charged for at a premium. Only now is it starting to become 'normal'.

With 2G900 and 3G900 covering more areas than 4G800 VO2 SHOULD be fine for full power 4G800 as long as they add the SIP9 flag to all legacy sites that may cover the same areas as 4G800. This should allow VoLTE on applicable handsets while still supporting CSFB to 2G and 3G legacy layers for non VoLTE phones.

Yeah, I wondered this. My 3 Sim often shows 4G but will ring no problem and hop back to 3G if it's there. Why are we of the assumption that VO2 4G800 can't do the same? Or is it the fact that 800 might go a bit further than 900 and you may be in a position where you go to make a call with a signal showing (800) and as there is no 900, it won't work? That would be pretty rare I would think and even then, in marginal areas, people are used to calls not connecting / having to climb a tree etc.

If we can turn the clock back we might as well just go and get VoLTE properly done before LTE is rolled out!

Yeah I think that's the issue. They are not doing CSFB to 2G, they are doing it to 3G900 hence why they are rolling that out at the same time. Probably because their 2G kit is legacy and not compatible with CSFB. (This is exactly the reason EE are doing the 2G refresh but initially are doing CSFB to 3G as well)
This has the issue that the 3G900 becomes immediately swamped and so has it's coverage footprint on minimum most of the time.
Hence the reason 4G800 is on a lower power than it could be.
VO2 will have their 4G800 on a low power for some time. Three will as well as they just don't have the capacity.
The only network who will be running it at full power is EE.

Yes Devon you are right. About Three-yes I do not think they have the 4G800 on full power as I work in area which is covered from only one mast(O2,Voda,Three and EE are using the same mast) So when I go indoors only VO2 have 1/2 bars 3G/4G. EE NO SERVICE. Three NO SERVICE too but they have 4G800 from the same mast as VO2. So what you say makes sense as I was always wondering why if Three have the 4G800 on full power indoors is NO SERVICE but VO2 have 1/2 bars 3G900/4G800

I am correct to assume that 4G can only happen where there is fibre? Obviously in areas where dishes are allowed that's another method, since we only have Telegraph pole masts allowed because of restrictiions.

Well yes it would need a fibre backhaul installing, if it doesn't have microwave links. It should have that installed if it is going to be upgraded.

Damn, really?
I thought I was just winging it.....
haha

Just a speed tests, I must say I'm impressed so far....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5trk8t0vz9...%2013.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3qtrtkxbtq...%2057.png?dl=0

O2 800 only.... I'll get some day time tests tomorrow and upload.

O2 Capacity Approaches Video: Six sector masts, 4G 1800MHz, microcells, O2 WiFi

Quite clever use of the spectrum

Does O2 have a way of doing speed tests without using up data (like Vodafone's Net Perform app, or EE allowing Root Metrics tests)?

O2 have my network app but I'm yet to work out of it uses your data or not.

A very similar setup to what I witnessed in NYC on AT&T, AT&T wifi hotspots in all the usual place Starbucks, McD's, shopping centres then dense busy areas like lower Manhatten/Financial area and of course Times Sq. Brilliantly too AT&T have both cellular and wifi access in tunnels and stations on the Subway. My point is if o2 are following this example in London then London has the potiental to have a robust o2 network once completed.

The small cell outside Churchill Square is indeed 3G2100 & 4G1800 only.

The shark fin antennae on the O2 store is receive antenna for the in store 3G2100 microcell - there is a fibre fed 4G800 microcell in there too.

The other lamppost site you mentioned (if it's the one on Madeira Drive opp the Pier) is 3G2100 only.

Hope that helps! 😊

I find it strange that O2 are using that outside fin antenna as a U21 receive antenna, yet they are having L08 run by fiber...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the backhaul available for the transmitted U21/L08 (for the microcell) dependent on the backhaul it receives?

So the L08 will be fine as it is through fiber, but the U21 speed will be dependant on the speed of the U21 outside the shop... which not only will vary as the load on the receiving macrocell throughout the day varies, but also it will be dependant on signal strength, as 3G speeds get slower (by quite a bit) as the signal decreases.

Wouldn't it have been better to route the U21 through the same fiber as L08? Because the L08 speed is dependant on the backhaul of the fiber (anything from 50Mbps to 100Mbps+?), yet the U21 speed will depend on what U21 is like outdoors, which won't be much more than about 5Mbps in a congested city?

Assuming that the fiber would be good enough to support both U21 and L08, that is.

They probably had the 3g 2100mhz fin in place long before 800mhz 4g came along, probably just left things as they were,

That's correct - the 4G rollout is seperate to the legacy 3G install and has been overlaid. Why pay to replace a working repeater solution with a new microcell - it's all about cost of replacement.

I thought the legacy side was being replaced also? Or am I having a thick moment?