When EE eventually switches on 800, it's going to be quite a groundbreaking moment there's no doubt.

The only problem is that not every EE subscriber will benefit straight away, or at all. It will depend on their handset and if it can be, or has been, VoLTE enabled.

It's one advantage Vodafone and O2 have, although arguably their need to keep within a 2G footprint at 900MHz is also going to cause issues - as both could potentially increase the power of 800 too if not constrained.

EE's control of 800 will give it an edge. It will be possible to run 800 at whatever power level the network wants.

I recently got a new O2 work phone. I was expecting 800 to provide significantly better coverage than EE whilst indoors. It certainly hasn't lived up-to my expectations. Whilst I seem to have better 3G indoor coverage, I don't think I have seen any example of a location where I have had indoor 4G coverage on O2 that I have not had it on EE.

Been out with Vodafone tonight and they've told me that 10,000+ sites are pretty much ready to go with VoLTE. And next year will see major improvements with both 3CA 4G and more indoor sites. Didn't realise that Gatwick North is already done (with over 100 antennas inside) and South soon, plus Gatwick Express and London Victoria station being done soon.

1400MHz LTE also comes next year offering incredible speeds, as well as 3CA throughout London.

Obviously we must wait to see how it pans out, but I was told that Vodafone feels it can compete, and beat, EE in the future - partially because EE is reliant on 800MHz, of which it only has 5MHz spectrum which just won't be enough.

In some areas it also appears that VF/O2 run 800 within the coverage of 3G 2100 so LTE coverage isn't actually much better than EE's.

Vodafone map has updated and 3G has disappeared from most of the country...

Very interesting.

In terms of indoor sites, do you know whether EE will be doing indoor sites at some of the same places as Vodafone? "

Good news Jon. So very soon VoLTE. Did Voda say any time scale like this year or next year?

Exactly, that's why I ended up staying with Vodafone for another year instead of moving to EE or back to three dispite Vodafone having poorer overall coverage around where I commute, Vodafone have none of the local masts upgraded to 3g let alone 4g yet but I can still sit in my front room & kitchen typing this out on a 115db 4g signal and have a perfect phone call unbroken whilst moving from room to room on 3g from a mast upgraded over 5 miles away which serves the M6.
They finally have some predicted upgrades for local masts so things will continue to get better.
On the other hand EE now have all but the local 2g mast upgraded, outside my other half can get near around 90mbps, but indoors without WiFi calling on the iPhone she can't make a reliable phone call or use the Internet.
I dont like Iphones much and unless I get a replacement phone from EE not WiFi calling or VoLTE so no indoor coverage.. Despite having 2 masts within a mile of here.
With no sign of 800mhz from EE anytime soon and costing nearly 50% more for 10gb less data and no Spotify its a no brainer..

If you get a Pixel you'd be okay.

Well I did find out what EE and Three has at Gatwick, and what O2 doesn't. It seems in 2017 there will be a big push for indoor coverage at airports, shopping centres etc.

3CA is already operational in most major cities, and coming to London. I think Vodafone wants to make full use of its spectrum, and there's still an aspiration to turn off 3G as soon as is practical (2020 is still the target).

I didn't know about 1400 and this will require new terminals, so I wonder if that's going to be more useful initially for portable hotspots/LTE routers and the like (I am guessing here, I wasn't told anything about their devices plan)? 20MHz of spectrum should offer good speeds.

Finally, I was invited to go along with them sometime in the next few months to see what they've been doing - and that a lot of the work that's been primarily south of the river in London is spreading north.

No date given at all. It's been testing for over a year, so I expect there are similar issues that have affected EE too.

I did get the impression that the issues are likely down to the handsets.

We have to consider that each manufacturer wants ownership of the IMS stack that goes on to allow VoLTE to work. You then have handsets that work with some operators and not others, which is messy.

You then have a handset that needs to work on equipment provided by Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung, Huawei etc.

Think of all the permutations and it will probably give you a real headache.

I bet they've got iOS working but now have to deal with phones from everyone else, and make sure that they all work properly on all the equipment. I don't envy Vodafone or the others, but sometimes I think VoLTE is never going to happen.

To clarify what I wrote yesterday, that wasn't a mistake. Vodafone has made sure there's solid 4G from Gatwick to Victoria, and the final pieces of the jigsaw will be one tunnel and the entrance to the station.

Working with Network Rail, the plan is for contiguous coverage from London to the airport.

Similar work has also been carried out on Heathrow Express/Connect. Has anyone recently seen if you now get 4G in the tunnel?

I now need to find out if EE has similar plans, as small cells in indoor locations is always going to beat coverage from outside on any frequency.

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your insight, it's always fascinating to read

What will be more fascinating is if Vodafone can really do what it says it intends to do. It seems that it could become a much bigger competitor to EE if it utilises all of the spectrum it has indoors and out.

No need to hope for 800 inside if you've got 800+2100+2600 (and 1400) on tap.

They're also doing a SureSignal project for places like pubs/bars, restaurants to get those places to offer better indoor signal. That would be ideal for basement bars/clubs I guess.

So is it fair to say that Vodafone's attitude has changed? Through the 3G period they seemingly had loads of spectrum available but frittered it by either not constructing the network in some places, or by not investing in strong enough backhaul.

Do you think their approach has changed significantly compared to that approach?

Their focus on transit routes is encouraging. I'm sure it's a lament of many when there's breaks in coverage on train routes or main trunk roads!

The network people seem to have a very positive buzz and also appear hungry to catch up, and beat, EE. I'd have normally laughed at the prospect of them getting to where EE is, but they have plans to do it that might be different - but will get the same results, perhaps even better (the indoor stuff). If Vodafone is really feeling in the competitive mood, that's got to be a good thing for everyone. (I do wonder, post Olaf, if BT will have the same appetite in the coming years).

Perhaps outdoor coverage in very rural areas could remain an issue, but a lot of the problems that have affected site upgrades (planning issues, getting fibre to sites etc) are presumably getting resolved all around the same time.

We will obviously have to wait and see, but there's no doubt that Vodafone has come a long way. O2 obviously has too, but it doesn't have the same level of spectrum and when it comes to the indoor stuff, SureSignal projects etc I guess O2 has no involvement in that at all.

Did VF indicate if they intended to try and match EE for geographic coverage?

It is just a shame that there is not the same appetite to improve customer service and billing issues. It is exactly for that reason I would be very loathed to return to VF!

Yes there is. They have a large investment plan for the network and intend to spend a lot of money on their billing system in 2017. They wouldn't say how much, or exact dates (they didn't give exact dates on anything bar the work around Gatwick and Victoria).

Even last year, it was clear they know they have problems with the billing system. It's not being ignored, but I would hope it could be fixed sooner rather than later.

AFAIK, they blamed all issues on the transition between old systems and new this year so from what you are saying, they are either replacing it again or delaying fixes for the current system?

I expect they aren't able to transition as easily as they hoped and it's the same thing, just delayed.

I can imagine it being a nightmare. EE had the same issues when moving Orange customers over to the T-Mobile billing system that EE now uses.

That took many years to fix.

Nice to see a confirmation of 10,000+ 4G sites, I wonder how close they are to the 18,500 target.


I wonder how far spread they envisage 3CA to be. I think it's launched in at least 6 cities, but in Manchester at least only 6 sites are enabled. In London the current rollout of 3CA in South London looks huge, I guess we'll soon see the same replicated in the North.

And... it still looks like Vodafone won't be using 1800MHz at all, or for 4G...

Yes it has 5MHz of 1800 which isn't great but surely that could be added to provide 3CA if 3G remains, or 4CA if 3G 2100 gets refarmed? O2 seem to be rolling out 2CA via 800 and 1800...

And outside of major cities, how many areas will even get 2600MHz, let alone 1800MHz/2100MHz 4G? Plus VF could put the 1800MHz onto all masts to help with capacity & give the iPhone 5 some 4G...

I'd much prefer L08+21+26 or even L08+14+21/L08+14+26 to L08+18+21/L08+18+26.

I'm not sure what your obsession with L08+18 is, given that L08+21 is much more appropriate given Vodafones spectrum portfolio and also the equipment they have rolled out in the West. Maybe they'll do L08+18 in the East, but they should definitely continue L08+21 in the West

Remember the iPhone 5 also supports L21.

You expect them to spend millions just to give support to some old phones like the iPhone 5 that could be considered as heading towards obsolescence?

People still using an iPhone 5 are probably the type of person who doesn't care if they only have basic 3G at 384Kbps just to be able to check Facebook...

You never cease to amaze by your ability to say something that just causes much disbelief and head shaking...