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Old 17-12-2016, 20:18
jonmorris
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Three would have less 3G users if they expanded their 4G1800 coverage more. Their 4G800 map looks good, but anywhere with 3G you get forced back down to it.
Quite, but there must be a fair few users who still only have 3G phones. And then there are likely loads of people without VoLTE compatible handsets.

I hope Three is like EE and not releasing anything in 2017 that doesn't support VoLTE/Super Voice.
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Old 18-12-2016, 00:10
blueacid
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Well, I drove down from Manchester to Guildford today, and used my work phone (Vodafone, iPhone 6) for Waze rather than my Three Z3 Compact.

I noticed that there was decent 4G for the most of the way, dropping to 3G occasionally. From the top of the M40 down to just before Warwick services there were a few GPRS/EDGE pockets still, but for the most part it was very good.

I'm used to Three with 3G all the way (with increasing 4G) - certainly, a strong enough network to stream music all the way without buffering; Vodafone are damn close to being able to match that at least.

It was a really good indication of how their network has come along lately, at least anecdotally for me on the M6, M42, M40 etc
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Old 18-12-2016, 10:02
voodoofish
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To clarify what I wrote yesterday, that wasn't a mistake. Vodafone has made sure there's solid 4G from Gatwick to Victoria, and the final pieces of the jigsaw will be one tunnel and the entrance to the station.

Working with Network Rail, the plan is for contiguous coverage from London to the airport.

Similar work has also been carried out on Heathrow Express/Connect. Has anyone recently seen if you now get 4G in the tunnel?

I now need to find out if EE has similar plans, as small cells in indoor locations is always going to beat coverage from outside on any frequency.
Do you have any more info from Vodafone on this? Is it something they plan to do more widely, or just for Heathrow/Gatwick? I'm kinda surprised Vodafone haven't talked about it themselves, but maybe they're waiting until the work is done.

After EE introduced Travel Data Pass and 800Mhz I've been thinking about switching, but if Vodafone are getting more aggressive about making sure their network is usable in as many places as possible maybe I'll sit tight for now.
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Old 18-12-2016, 12:17
jonmorris
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I am surprised Vodafone hasn't made a bigger deal of things. Even at Winter Wonderland, it could have put up posters (paid for, obviously) to promote that it had provided high-speed 4G for people to broadcast on Facebook Live, share HD videos, Skype etc.

I was a bit disappointed at Westfield (Stratford) that they've covered the station with posters about getting best network (P3) but hadn't actually installed - as far as I could tell - extra capacity and coverage indoors within the centre itself. Yes, there was 4G in places, but it wasn't particularly good.

Nor was EE or Three, mind. Very hit and miss in fact, and the free Wi-Fi from Westfield itself was also useless due to the high numbers of visitors.

I did hear from EE last week that Network Rail is playing silly buggers with operators though, in terms of the money they want for access to sites on their land - and it's causing no end of issues. I should probably write something about that one day, as it was fascinating. The other problem now is dealing with landlords who are demanding eye-watering amounts of money to let operators do upgrade work, knowing full well that they'll get the money. Companies now exist to help landlords 'milk' phone networks, and farmers and land owners are all getting in on the act.

I assume contracts said an operator needed access for repairs, but not for upgrade work.. so ker-ching!
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Old 18-12-2016, 12:58
gazzz02
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The other problem now is dealing with landlords who are demanding eye-watering amounts of money to let operators do upgrade work, knowing full well that they'll get the money. Companies now exist to help landlords 'milk' phone networks, and farmers and land owners are all getting in on the act.
Sounds like a potentially dangerous game to play, especially in urban areas. As mobile data becomes more and more essential, you presumably risk devaluing your land/building because it doesn't have high-speed mobile data available to it, all in the interests of trying to squeeze some more money out of the mobile networks.

We're already seeing a shift in rural areas where communities are prepared to pay for mobile infrastructure themselves. I wonder if over time we may see businesses prepared to do similar in urban areas too?
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Old 18-12-2016, 13:07
Pedro_C
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O2 has four sites on Lincoln broadcasting 4G on 2100MHz (B1) at 5MHz afer refarm form U21. As Aaron_McGowan has pointed out, I have a video on it, available here: O2 2100MHz 4G (B1 LTE). .

The masts I cellmapped so if you look at O2 4G Band 1 on cellmapper, you will be able to see their location. All have Band 20 and B3 4G aswell, so O2 has 20MHz of 4G spectrum there, so similar to places like Manchester where Vodafone has extensive B20 B1 CA totaling 20MHz.
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Old 18-12-2016, 13:16
jchamier
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Companies now exist to help landlords 'milk' phone networks, and farmers and land owners are all getting in on the act
So yet another reason for our monthly fees to increase. !
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Old 18-12-2016, 23:14
jaffboy151
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Should the main networks now be taking a more aggressive approach to fazing out / scaling down 3g, at least in the 2100mhz band for VO2?
I mean.. What and when was the last main flagship phone released without 4g? IPhone 4s? Galaxy S3? How many years ago now?
quite often I drop down and check how 2100mhz 3g is doing in some areas where upgrades are well underway and judging by the speeds here really isn't many people using it now.
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Old 18-12-2016, 23:34
jonmorris
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All the 4G phones will need VoLTE or else everyone would eventually have only 2G to make calls on, and there's no reason to think that a lot of that spectrum won't be refarmed too.

So it's more a case of when will the vast majority of users have a VoLTE phone, or be able to be offered one at a low cost to upgrade (being told what's going to happen, not dissimilar to the analogue TV switch off). Considering it's only next year that all EE phones sold will support it, that suggests a few years yet.

I bet all the operators are wishing they'd been able to have all phones in 2016 compatible. I guess the bulk of them (certainly the big sellers) are, but only EE can look at the network as a whole and see how many 4G non-VoLTE, 3G and 2G only, users they have - and how active they are.
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Old 19-12-2016, 10:14
binary
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I am surprised Vodafone hasn't made a bigger deal of things.
I've noticed a fair bit advertising in London from Vodafone promoting their improved network in the metropolis - poster sites, bus stops, on the Tube, in the Standard and Metro newspapers.


I did hear from EE last week that Network Rail is playing silly buggers with operators though, in terms of the money they want for access to sites on their land - and it's causing no end of issues. I should probably write something about that one day, as it was fascinating. ...
I think you should at least try and get the other side of the story on this too, rather than just go with what EE say. I imagine it's not quite as simple as that.
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Old 19-12-2016, 10:21
binary
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Should the main networks now be taking a more aggressive approach to fazing out / scaling down 3g, at least in the 2100mhz band for VO2?
Needs VoLTE. And VoLTE is a joke.
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Old 19-12-2016, 14:07
jonmorris
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I think you should at least try and get the other side of the story on this too, rather than just go with what EE say. I imagine it's not quite as simple as that.
Yeah, I would if I decided to write a full story on it.
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Old 19-12-2016, 20:26
lightspeed2398
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Just thought I'd share on here as well, Voda 3G without that stupid red nonsense. If anyone wants specific areas just drop a line

https://twitter.com/lightspeed2398/s...43971329536000
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Old 19-12-2016, 22:16
jchamier
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Needs VoLTE. And VoLTE is a joke.
Sadly due to the bulk of smartphones being android and all having a different way to configure or work with VoLTE.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:05
ryan125hst
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My Mum has been having issues with her phone on O2 making strange noises. Sometimes, when you ring, it sounds as if Darth Vader has answered the phone until you hang up and try again, and then it works! O2 have added 4G to the area recently so I thought I'd check out the signal. 4G wise, it was pretty much the same as far as the signal strength is concerned, although it did cling onto the signal when I went downstairs whereas my EE phone dropped down to 3G. However, I got 80 Mpbs down in my parents room and 17 Mbps vs 25 down (I can't remember the upload) on the O2 phone. Downstairs it was 6 Mbps down on O2 vs about 28 Mbps down on EE which even I was surprised about as I really struggle to get 4G in the living room. 3G signal strength was also similar yet I had just over 3 Mbps up yet my Mum's phone could only manage 0.5 Mpbs. Uploads were about 0.2 Mbps up on both but the signal strength wasn't overly great. O2 managed a full 2G signal yet EE's was fluctuating between 1 and 3 bars. I get a full 2G signal upstairs though. The point is that O2's coverage now seems almost equal to, if not slightly better than, EE's in my house, yet EE are clearly far better as far as performance is concerned. They both struggle at times downstairs, but there's generally enough signal there for data and certainly for calls. Yet despite this, my Mum always seems to have issues with calls on her Sony Xperia X3 Compact, even when upstairs sometimes, yet I don't recall every struggling to make calls on EE or Three. Is this O2's network to blame?
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Old 21-12-2016, 15:06
Ashley_Bradbury
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I use to have this problem on ee and assumed it was the baseband software
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Old 24-12-2016, 10:00
mobilecentre
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Someone told me about a planning application for a new local mast (because there was local objection of course!) and I went online to look and almost fell of my chair as it was a CTIL site, not only that on the application it showed an image "integrated into the local network" with three additional new sites. The four sites are within five miles of each other and three of them I imagine are primarily to give coverage to the Cotswold Line railway track and another just to cover a new housing development.

This shows an effort to actually add new sites outside of the VO2 existing pool adding (subject to objections) additional coverage in rural areas where the temptation is to concentrate on population.
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Old 24-12-2016, 12:46
M1kos
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Ctil are really pulling out all the stops now they've a new initiative called GTG grow the grid there are literally hundreds of planning apps in atm all over the country. Near me in North Kent most small villages are getting their own dedicated mast with most being approved. The remote Welsh Valleys are coming on line and south Devon is being worked on in jan/Feb I'm really starting to believe that blanket data coverage from Vo2 really is gonna happen 120 sites in Cornwall alone have planning permission with 30 ish already live
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Old 27-12-2016, 13:39
M1kos
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Vo2 are looking to use churches for mast locations in rural areas. Along the M5 corridor in Devon they have applied to use three separate church towers in villages with current poor reception. They intend to replace wooden louvres with grp ones and hide antennas behind utilising all four sides of the building to create four sectors setups. This to me is a perfect use of existing infrastructure as long as it's dome discretely everybody wins coverage will be great and the churches will get much needed funds
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Old 27-12-2016, 15:10
jonmorris
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I remember Vodafone telling a story about a church refusing access on the grounds that the mobile signals could be used to transmit pornography.

Might be a nice story, but I rather suspect there's an element of truth to it.
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Old 27-12-2016, 15:11
CheshireBumpkin
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This to me is a perfect use of existing infrastructure as long as it's dome discretely everybody wins coverage will be great and the churches will get much needed funds
I totally agree, but still expect huge outrage and objections from half-witted residents claiming everything from 'desecration' to 'sacrilege' and 'brain-frying' as they fill in their weekly mail-order coupon at the kitchen table.
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Old 27-12-2016, 16:33
gomezz
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Using bell towers seems like a very apt adaptation for modern communication.
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:51
ozz
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A new planning app for a mast in Ropsley, Lincs is showing up as submitted by CTIL and Shared Access Ltd. Never heard of Shared Access Ltd before.
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Old 29-12-2016, 19:08
Pedro_C
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O2 UK 2016 New Network Technologies Review: 4x4 MIMO, TM4 Modulation, B1 LTE, Six Sector Masts, 4G Microcells and predictions for the future

O2 has been quite busy in the year 2016! I plan to do a video doing similar for another MNO tonight/tomorrow.
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Old 03-01-2017, 20:59
matty1000kk
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So 5 planning applications have recently been approved for new masts for Voda/o2 in North East Essex. Really impressive to see such a notable expansion.

On a pure mast count, it will put them very close to EE with the added benefit that all will be broadcasting 800mhz 4G. Could 2017 be the year that Voda/o2 overtake EE for 3G/4G in this area. I didn't think I would be saying that as an avid EE fan!

I guess it will all boil down to how far EE roll out their 800mhz 4G. Let's wait and see....
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