Deleted.
Vodafone and O2 4G experience thread
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Indeed Devon, I have seen a 4G phone at -120dBm but still with an ASU of over 15, giving a very decent throughput.
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“What you'll want to look at is the ASU as that will tell you if the connection can actually be used for anything.”
“What you'll want to look at is the ASU as that will tell you if the connection can actually be used for anything.”
iPhones don't show ASU. I know Android does, not sure about Windows Phone.
but I disagree it is any more useful:
Quote:
“ASU is just a representation of the rate at which the phone is able to update its location by connecting to the towers near it. It basically measures the same thing as dBm, but on a more linear scale. You can convert ASU to dBm with this formula: dBm= -113+(2*ASU).”
“ASU is just a representation of the rate at which the phone is able to update its location by connecting to the towers near it. It basically measures the same thing as dBm, but on a more linear scale. You can convert ASU to dBm with this formula: dBm= -113+(2*ASU).”
iPhone signal bars/dots are doing this already, which Android doesn't do. The iPhone is using multiple measures to try and show quality of the signal (ie, low quality reduce the bars/dots even if signal is "loud"). Channel loading is the term.
What we also don't have at the UE (user equipment) end is any idea how strong the signal FROM us to the cell site is.
Originally Posted by jchamier:
“Phone signal bars/dots are doing this already, which Android doesn't do. The iPhone is using multiple measures to try and show quality of the signal (ie, low quality reduce the bars/dots even if signal is "loud"). Channel loading is the term.”
“Phone signal bars/dots are doing this already, which Android doesn't do. The iPhone is using multiple measures to try and show quality of the signal (ie, low quality reduce the bars/dots even if signal is "loud"). Channel loading is the term.”
I've often heard that the iPhone measures signal differently but I've put one side-by-side with an Android phone in multiple signal locations and the bars always match up, so I think it only measures the dBm signal. Perhaps that changed with iOS 7? I know when the iPhone 4 came out they re-did the signal algorithm to take into account more than just dBm (from what I recall "insiders" at Apple saying).
ASU has always been a very accurate measure for me as to whether I could actually use my phone. Below 5 and nothing really works. Above 10 is good. 4G is a much higher ASU at much lower dBm than 3G, so you can have the same ASU on 4G at -115dBm as you can on 3G at -95dBm, in my experience.
SINR is the best single predictor as to the speed you can attain. Whilst in general it might move in a similar direction to strength as measured by RSCP, sometimes it can be totally different hence why you see posts like "I get a great speed with 0 or 1 bars." In cities you often have a strong signal (which means lots of bars on Android phones) but the SINR is poor because of interference from other sites (still a problem for 4G) and speeds suffer.
iPhone blobs do a slightly better job but there are still problems as they can be slow to react. And don't bother trying to be clever by showing the numerical RSCP figure. It is often wrong as it only updates when the blobs do which are not measuring RSCP.
Some Android phones will show the SINR directly if they give access to field test data and this is what you need if you want to set speedtest records! High SINR doesn't guarantee top speeds but a low SINR (even if it's combined with 5 bars) does guarantee you won't get good speeds!
iPhone blobs do a slightly better job but there are still problems as they can be slow to react. And don't bother trying to be clever by showing the numerical RSCP figure. It is often wrong as it only updates when the blobs do which are not measuring RSCP.
Some Android phones will show the SINR directly if they give access to field test data and this is what you need if you want to set speedtest records! High SINR doesn't guarantee top speeds but a low SINR (even if it's combined with 5 bars) does guarantee you won't get good speeds!
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“I can never get throughout at below -105dBm on 3 3G. What you'll want to look at is the ASU as that will tell you if the connection can actually be used for anything.”
“I can never get throughout at below -105dBm on 3 3G. What you'll want to look at is the ASU as that will tell you if the connection can actually be used for anything.”
I'm currently on 14 ASU, -85dBm, though this is a strong signal area. However, in some places I've been to, I've had anything from 0 ASU (-113dBm, the bare minimum 3G signal possible) to 5 ASU (-103dBm, just about shows up as two bars on my S4) and I've had some sort of throughput. On 0 ASU it can be very flakey sometimes, but certainly from 2 ASU (-109dBm) and better, 3G has always worked.
900MHz has its issues (what is this, me raging on Vodafone! 
)...
The nearest mast to me is still stuck on 2100MHz O2 3G (come on O2, I'm starting to turn into the O2 version of Devon) but a Vodafone mast not that far from me but still not that close, now has 900MHz 3G on O2/VF.
The issue is, my phone now sticks to this mast despite the 2G signal from the 2100MHz mast being much, much stronger. My phone now goes from no signal, to 3G, to no signal, to GPRS, to EDGE, to 3G, to no signal, and so on, and so on...
This is making my battery life suffer. Force my G4 to 2G and problem solved (except when it rapidly changes from GPRS to EDGE - one mast to another - never used to do this, I suppose it happened when the further away 900MHz mast had O2 added). I just have to remember to change my G4 back to auto when I leave the house. Quite annoying sometimes.
)...The nearest mast to me is still stuck on 2100MHz O2 3G (come on O2, I'm starting to turn into the O2 version of Devon) but a Vodafone mast not that far from me but still not that close, now has 900MHz 3G on O2/VF.
The issue is, my phone now sticks to this mast despite the 2G signal from the 2100MHz mast being much, much stronger. My phone now goes from no signal, to 3G, to no signal, to GPRS, to EDGE, to 3G, to no signal, and so on, and so on...
This is making my battery life suffer. Force my G4 to 2G and problem solved (except when it rapidly changes from GPRS to EDGE - one mast to another - never used to do this, I suppose it happened when the further away 900MHz mast had O2 added). I just have to remember to change my G4 back to auto when I leave the house. Quite annoying sometimes.
As jchamier said, I don't think ASU means anything other than RSCP (3G) or RSRP (4G) so you might as well look at that. In any wireless system SINR is going to be the best speed predictor if you just have one measure.
In fact, O2's 4G coverage obligation, since it includes a speed requirement of 2Mb/s is based on a minimum SINR requirement , not RSRP.
In fact, O2's 4G coverage obligation, since it includes a speed requirement of 2Mb/s is based on a minimum SINR requirement , not RSRP.
Originally Posted by japaul:
“SINR is the best single predictor as to the speed you can attain. Whilst in general it might move in a similar direction to strength as measured by RSCP, sometimes it can be totally different hence why you see posts like "I get a great speed with 0 or 1 bars." In cities you often have a strong signal (which means lots of bars on Android phones) but the SINR is poor because of interference from other sites (still a problem for 4G) and speeds suffer.
iPhone blobs do a slightly better job but there are still problems as they can be slow to react. And don't bother trying to be clever by showing the numerical RSCP figure. It is often wrong as it only updates when the blobs do which are not measuring RSCP.
Some Android phones will show the SINR directly if they give access to field test data and this is what you need if you want to set speedtest records! High SINR doesn't guarantee top speeds but a low SINR (even if it's combined with 5 bars) does guarantee you won't get good speeds!”
“SINR is the best single predictor as to the speed you can attain. Whilst in general it might move in a similar direction to strength as measured by RSCP, sometimes it can be totally different hence why you see posts like "I get a great speed with 0 or 1 bars." In cities you often have a strong signal (which means lots of bars on Android phones) but the SINR is poor because of interference from other sites (still a problem for 4G) and speeds suffer.
iPhone blobs do a slightly better job but there are still problems as they can be slow to react. And don't bother trying to be clever by showing the numerical RSCP figure. It is often wrong as it only updates when the blobs do which are not measuring RSCP.
Some Android phones will show the SINR directly if they give access to field test data and this is what you need if you want to set speedtest records! High SINR doesn't guarantee top speeds but a low SINR (even if it's combined with 5 bars) does guarantee you won't get good speeds!”
Just a small thing but can we use "dots" and not "blobs".
Blobs doesn't really do it for me and reminds me of the the movie "The Blob" which don't get me wrong, is excellent is so many ways (especially the bit where the girl pulls the guy's arm off while he's beings dissolved and the other guy get's pulled down the plughole), but Blobs??
Actually can we just say bars. Bars is much better and we all know what we mean.
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“900MHz has its issues (what is this, me raging on Vodafone!)...
The nearest mast to me is still stuck on 2100MHz O2 3G (come on O2, I'm starting to turn into the O2 version of Devon) but a Vodafone mast not that far from me but still not that close, now has 900MHz 3G on O2/VF.
The issue is, my phone now sticks to this mast despite the 2G signal from the 2100MHz mast being much, much stronger. My phone now goes from no signal, to 3G, to no signal, to GPRS, to EDGE, to 3G, to no signal, and so on, and so on...
This is making my battery life suffer. Force my G4 to 2G and problem solved (except when it rapidly changes from GPRS to EDGE - one mast to another - never used to do this, I suppose it happened when the further away 900MHz mast had O2 added). I just have to remember to change my G4 back to auto when I leave the house. Quite annoying sometimes.”
“900MHz has its issues (what is this, me raging on Vodafone!
)...The nearest mast to me is still stuck on 2100MHz O2 3G (come on O2, I'm starting to turn into the O2 version of Devon) but a Vodafone mast not that far from me but still not that close, now has 900MHz 3G on O2/VF.
The issue is, my phone now sticks to this mast despite the 2G signal from the 2100MHz mast being much, much stronger. My phone now goes from no signal, to 3G, to no signal, to GPRS, to EDGE, to 3G, to no signal, and so on, and so on...
This is making my battery life suffer. Force my G4 to 2G and problem solved (except when it rapidly changes from GPRS to EDGE - one mast to another - never used to do this, I suppose it happened when the further away 900MHz mast had O2 added). I just have to remember to change my G4 back to auto when I leave the house. Quite annoying sometimes.”
Isn't this something to do with old and new masts and phones sticking to certain masts depending on SIM or something like that? Someone mentioned it a while ago. Bit like Orange SIMs sticking to old legacy Orange masts etc.. I can't remember now but ja would know.... obviously!
Originally Posted by DevonBloke:
“Yeah in my experience EE3G is a bit pointless from -105 to -110.
No way it would ever work at -111.
My Huawei router use to connect at between -99 and -102dBm and when at 102 it would get very dodgy and intermittent.
In complete contrast I can put it in the kitchen where no phone will show 2G1800 let alone 4G1800 and it will pull in -124dBm 4G1800 and do about 8 meg down and 0.5 up!!!
Bonkers.”
“Yeah in my experience EE3G is a bit pointless from -105 to -110.
No way it would ever work at -111.
My Huawei router use to connect at between -99 and -102dBm and when at 102 it would get very dodgy and intermittent.
In complete contrast I can put it in the kitchen where no phone will show 2G1800 let alone 4G1800 and it will pull in -124dBm 4G1800 and do about 8 meg down and 0.5 up!!!
Bonkers.”
That's strange, maybe it might be to do with the signal in your area, or the handset you're using? I wouldn't know tbh, though I've had 3G working at -111dBm - and although it isn't the best, it's far better than the alternative (whatever dBm of 2G).
I do know that 4G has a much higher ASU for a given dBm figure, so 4G will work best at low signal levels.
Originally Posted by DevonBloke:
“Just a small thing but can we use "dots" and not "blobs".
Blobs doesn't really do it for me and reminds me of the the movie "The Blob" which don't get me wrong, is excellent is so many ways (especially the bit where the girl pulls the guy's arm off while he's beings dissolved and the other guy get's pulled down the plughole), but Blobs??
Actually can we just say bars. Bars is much better and we all know what we mean.
”
“Just a small thing but can we use "dots" and not "blobs".
Blobs doesn't really do it for me and reminds me of the the movie "The Blob" which don't get me wrong, is excellent is so many ways (especially the bit where the girl pulls the guy's arm off while he's beings dissolved and the other guy get's pulled down the plughole), but Blobs??
Actually can we just say bars. Bars is much better and we all know what we mean.
”
https://youtu.be/glzcxa7jtoI
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“The one on top of the police building at the war memorial (Rishworth st) across from country hall. A lattice tower beside the railway tracks at B&M, Matalan. It has two short fat antennas and a short slim on it, no dishes etc....
My mistake there is another site so 3, on top of Wakefield house behind trinity walk, o2 has a site which hasn't been done yet, although I've seen some people up there later. Could be 3, as the newly upgraded 3 site up there is offline due a fault and will be for quite a while so I'm told.”
“The one on top of the police building at the war memorial (Rishworth st) across from country hall. A lattice tower beside the railway tracks at B&M, Matalan. It has two short fat antennas and a short slim on it, no dishes etc....
My mistake there is another site so 3, on top of Wakefield house behind trinity walk, o2 has a site which hasn't been done yet, although I've seen some people up there later. Could be 3, as the newly upgraded 3 site up there is offline due a fault and will be for quite a while so I'm told.”
Thank you. Do you have any idea when these might be upgraded?
What is wrong with people?
I mean the arm pulling off bit is out of context as they should have showed the bit before where he goes in the room and doesn't see it lurking on the ceiling.
I don't know if everyone sees the same video afterwards but mine was "The Stuff" which is just totally 80s B movie ridiculousness right there!
Don't make em like that anymore.
Originally Posted by beecart:
“Thank you. Do you have any idea when these might be upgraded?”
“Thank you. Do you have any idea when these might be upgraded?”
Not as yet, I'll see if I can find anything on the council planning site.
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“Not as yet, I'll see if I can find anything on the council planning site.”
“Not as yet, I'll see if I can find anything on the council planning site.”
Just checked, Planning has been approved for the Police HQ building back in August so just a case of waiting now.
Any one knows whats going on with the cornerstone upgrades as around me they seem now to be trying to keep the networks as separate as they can,
As not far from me a new o2 mast has been built its about 30 meters high has fiber backhual but only has 2g 900 and 3g 900mhz no 4g the panels are not even wired up for 4g and only o2 no vodafone,
Also a new vodafone only 2g 4g site is being built next week no o2 on it only voda will be on it 2g 4g only,
Also a former 2g o2 (old cellnet) base station that gives a weak but usable signal at my home was upgraded about October time now had vod/02 at the site vod is all fiber from the huawei 3900 bts which is in the equiptment hut but o2 only use fiber backhaul for 4g and 3g at the site the 2g is routed separate from the site via 18Ghz microwave link
As not far from me a new o2 mast has been built its about 30 meters high has fiber backhual but only has 2g 900 and 3g 900mhz no 4g the panels are not even wired up for 4g and only o2 no vodafone,
Also a new vodafone only 2g 4g site is being built next week no o2 on it only voda will be on it 2g 4g only,
Also a former 2g o2 (old cellnet) base station that gives a weak but usable signal at my home was upgraded about October time now had vod/02 at the site vod is all fiber from the huawei 3900 bts which is in the equiptment hut but o2 only use fiber backhaul for 4g and 3g at the site the 2g is routed separate from the site via 18Ghz microwave link
Originally Posted by dts5000:
“Any one knows whats going on with the cornerstone upgrades as around me they seem now to be trying to keep the networks as separate as they can,
As not far from me a new o2 mast has been built its about 30 meters high has fiber backhual but only has 2g 900 and 3g 900mhz no 4g the panels are not even wired up for 4g and only o2 no vodafone,
Also a new vodafone only 2g 4g site is being built next week no o2 on it only voda will be on it 2g 4g only,
Also a former 2g o2 (old cellnet) base station that gives a weak but usable signal at my home was upgraded about October time now had vod/02 at the site vod is all fiber from the huawei 3900 bts which is in the equiptment hut but o2 only use fiber backhaul for 4g and 3g at the site the 2g is routed separate from the site via 18Ghz microwave link”
“Any one knows whats going on with the cornerstone upgrades as around me they seem now to be trying to keep the networks as separate as they can,
As not far from me a new o2 mast has been built its about 30 meters high has fiber backhual but only has 2g 900 and 3g 900mhz no 4g the panels are not even wired up for 4g and only o2 no vodafone,
Also a new vodafone only 2g 4g site is being built next week no o2 on it only voda will be on it 2g 4g only,
Also a former 2g o2 (old cellnet) base station that gives a weak but usable signal at my home was upgraded about October time now had vod/02 at the site vod is all fiber from the huawei 3900 bts which is in the equiptment hut but o2 only use fiber backhaul for 4g and 3g at the site the 2g is routed separate from the site via 18Ghz microwave link”
What area are you in? Just wondering if it's in the Tef of VF part of the country
Originally Posted by Skippy2005:
“Just checked, Planning has been approved for the Police HQ building back in August so just a case of waiting now.”
“Just checked, Planning has been approved for the Police HQ building back in August so just a case of waiting now.”
Thanks Skippy. Fingers crossed they'll upgrade soon
Originally Posted by interactiv-uk:
“What area are you in? Just wondering if it's in the Tef of VF part of the country”
“What area are you in? Just wondering if it's in the Tef of VF part of the country”
I wish someone would clearly explain this O2 - VF part of the country stuff..
It's it just a division of cost and labour or is it more complex t been this? For example do VF areas only upgrade VF & existing joint masts and O2 areas only upgrade O2 & existing joint masts?
Originally Posted by jaffboy151:
“I wish someone would clearly explain this O2 - VF part of the country stuff..
It's it just a division of cost and labour or is it more complex t been this? For example do VF areas only upgrade VF & existing joint masts and O2 areas only upgrade O2 & existing joint masts?”
“I wish someone would clearly explain this O2 - VF part of the country stuff..
It's it just a division of cost and labour or is it more complex t been this? For example do VF areas only upgrade VF & existing joint masts and O2 areas only upgrade O2 & existing joint masts?”
I was hoping that all masts would be upgraded; certainly the masts that are better positioned anyway.
I've said about the Raunds masts before on here; ideally both should be upgraded but if only one of them were to be upgraded, the Vodafone one should be.
One outside of Rushden that was upgraded to CTIL was an O2 GSM900 mast; however another mast that was upgrade in the center of Rushden was a Voda GSM900/UMTS2100 mast. I think it depends on the situation?
Originally Posted by jaffboy151:
“I wish someone would clearly explain this O2 - VF part of the country stuff..
It's it just a division of cost and labour or is it more complex t been this? For example do VF areas only upgrade VF & existing joint masts and O2 areas only upgrade O2 & existing joint masts?”
“I wish someone would clearly explain this O2 - VF part of the country stuff..
It's it just a division of cost and labour or is it more complex t been this? For example do VF areas only upgrade VF & existing joint masts and O2 areas only upgrade O2 & existing joint masts?”
Basically the country is split down the middle - Telefonica have the east, Scotland and Northern Ireland, while Vodafone have the west up to and including Glasgow and wales. In each area the relevant company has full control of the rollout of 2G 3G and 4G networks and has sole access to all of O2 and Vodafone's sites in that area. They can choose which sites they continue to use for both networks and which to decommission in order to reach the required coverage levels.
I hope that helps a bit - a good analogy is to think that Vodafone have a network in the West that O2 has access to and O2 has a network in the east that Vodafone has access to.
Within the M25 is slightly different - each operator continues to manage their own 2G and 3G networks with the 4G being overlaid by Telefonica north of the Thames and Vodafone the south.
Originally Posted by mrgs12:
“GL67RL”
“GL67RL”
Oh dear, you are just up the road from me (well relative to Glasgow anyway : ) and your VO2 coverage looks only marginally better than mine. "No 4G planned"
I don't think they like us.
The cross is where I live. The boundary is roughly where I work (self employed IT guy).
http://s11.postimg.org/3p8xfumbn/screenshot_64.png
3G is a joke and I do wish ofcom would do something about it.
Here it is.... oh wait, the red is actually 2G so should be white! Idiots.
http://s11.postimg.org/640t0a2kj/screenshot_62.png
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“I see the community "champion" is still misleading people...”
“I see the community "champion" is still misleading people...”
Are you referring to me? No I'm not a champion just stating how it is here, I live in the Cotswold area of outstanding natural beauty no mast in this area is built near population because of the perceived health risk at the time, therefore coverage is poor. The TV relay is 4 miles away which is 2G only, no dish or lattice tower construction are allowed and have always been refused permission, telegraph pole style allowed and that's it. The city of Gloucester is 7 miles away and is behind the Cotswold hills which completely block out everything.
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