Yes. He also said that there is two versions of the same Doctor because he was going through a "vanity phase". It is up to us as viewers to decide what suits us best. It will never be canon one way or another as to what capacity the clone Doctor actually is.

But, in fairness, the clone doctor isn't an actual doctor. Doc 11th was referring to the fact that the Doctor used up one whole regeneration to stay the same because he liked the way he looked!

Unless Moffat decides to go on a regeneration splurging spree after Capaldi leaves and have the Doctor played by several big-name actors in a straight-faced version of The Curse of Fatal Death.

The "dark doctor" spoken of by the Valeyard is John Hurt surely?

but he is only incarnation number 9 the Valeyard is between number 12 and the last, which was supposed to be 13

I didn't find The War Doctor particularly dark. If anything, it was lighter than Tennant's Doctor and certainly Eccleston's.

But the last is no longer the 13th Doctor, in traditional numbering it'll be the 24th Doctor (or thereabouts, excluding the War Doctor and the two 10th Doctors). So the Valeyard can be anything before the 24th but after the 12th.

And we have to fit the watcher in there too somewhere don't we?

(Where does this extra regeneration energy come from to create all these extra characters as well as changing the face, healing etc? )

Actually, what you wrote there indicates 12 regenerations, not 13. Hartnell was the first and then regenerated into the 2nd Doctor, which was the first regeneration.

Also, I think it's pretty clear that Capaldi's appearance in "The Day of the Doctor" was to give fans a treat and to also include him (or at least his eyes) in the 50th anniversary special.

It would not make any sense, however, for the 11th Doctor to be referring to the Capaldi Doctor in "The Time of the Doctor" as one of the "13 silly Doctors" since Capaldi is a future regeneration and the 11th Doctor stated he had no regenerations left. Therefore the "13 silly Doctors" must be himself and all the ones who came before him.

What was there really to clear up? The 5th Doctor episode "Mawdryn Undead" established that the Doctor had 12 regenerations and "The Five Doctors" established that the Time Lords could give an additional regeneration cycle.

Therefore, as there were still 2 regenerations left, Moffat could have dealt with the regeneration question later as showrunner or left it for the next showrunner to handle. Then, after first completely ignoring anything to do with the Meta-Crisis Doctor, if he wanted to resolve the Time War/Gallifrey issue, he could have had Paul McGann be the Doctor who fought in the Time War which would have made more sense and not messed up the numbering of the regenerations/Doctors.

And I do think Paul McGann would have done just a good a job as Hurt did as the War Doctor. I know Moffat said something about how he didn't think McGann's Doctor would be believable as the War Doctor but I personally didn't find Hurt's Doctor (even though I liked him) to be particularly believable as this battle-hardened warrior. He seemed more like he would be one of Wilf's friends. Certainly McGann could have done just as good or better in that area.

Speaking of the numbering of the Doctors, I came across a funny video on YouTube called "The Doctor Games" which is a parody of a scene in "The Hunger Games" featuring the 12 Doctors.

At one point, a Dalek voice is giving the countdown (11, 10, etc. ) and each Doctor is shown and after it says "9", the Hurt Doctor turns around and the countdown voice says "8 and 1/2 or...something".

I also particularly like the scene where the 4th Doctor kills the 10th Doctor with jelly babies and then the 10th Doctor's photo is in the sky with the caption "He didn't want to go."

The video does have a few somewhat graphic scenes of violence (not bad) and it is funny. For those who might be interested in watching it, here's the link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C7Ys_hhHCA

The Meta-Crisis Doctor was just an off-shoot of 10's regeneration, an accident as it were and not a Time Lord, or completely a Doctor. He was so influenced by Donna that he's not really the Doctor anyway. If he could get a TARDIS, he would only be able to use it in his own world anyway, so it wouldn't matter. As stated above, when 10 regenerated, he kept the same face, so technically there are two tenth Doctors, one pre-Stolen Earth and one post-Stolen Earth and the Meta-Crisis Doctor was just an unfortunate genocidal side-effect.

So glad I missed this thread. Having re read, it seems to fit the flow of the previous threads on this topic but already is getting shorter in post count, all we need now is for someone to bring up brain of morbius, rivers' wasted regeneration energy and the cycle of this topic will almost be complete

To all (salad and everyone else) who can tell the difference between a regeneration and an incarnation I salute you.

Now, just popping off to shine some regen energy into yesterday's supper and fill the Black hole in my middle region.

I simply saw this as Tennant getting two goes ie he drew the energy from the hand and regenerated his current form (like his hand on Christmas invasion) therefore Tennant makes up 11 AND 12 same persona two uses of energy. The meta crisis is completely separate.

The Clone Doctor is a waste of of a regeneration, a waste of a character, and a waste of time in a strory that has nothing good to its name. If we never hear about him again, I will be more than happy.

If however, he does come back as the Valeyard, it might be interesting, so long as we don't involve Rose. She has the habbit of absorbing plots so they revolve around her, and I want the Valeyard to be "the evil Doctor", not "Rose's gone rouge pet".

The clone doctor wasn't a regeneration imo, the regeneration happened earlier with the doctor, this was a metacrisis brought on by donna after being exposed to regeneration energy

The 'missing' Doctor is the 10th Doctor mark 2 we see on screen from Journey's End to The End of Time. It was a regeneration at the end of The Stolen Earth, he just kept the sam appearance and personality as the last incarnation because he was vain. The meta crisis 'blue' Doctor/Donna is not an incarnation - yes fe was formed out of residual regeneration energy but just in the same way the Doctor's new hand is.

So,
1 Hartnell
2 Troughton
3 pertwee
4 Baker T
5 davison
6 Baker C
7 McCoy
8 McGann
9 Hurt
10 Ecclestone
11 Tennant (xmas invasion-stolen Earth)
12 Tennant (Journey's End - End of Time)
13 Smith

That's my understanding anyway.

Yup, and then of course there's also...

- The Watcher – a future projection of the Fifth Doctor --(like Cho-je was a projection of K'anpo Rimpoche's future self) who guides the Fourth to his regeneration.
- Jenny – cloned “daughter” of the Tenth Doctor
- The Human Doctor – bi-product of the eleventh (metacrisis) regeneration.
- The Dream Lord - psychic manifestation of the Eleventh Doctor's dark side.
- The Flesh Doctor – flesh “clone” of the Eleventh Doctor
- The Valeyard – a distillation of the Doctor's dark side from somewhere after his 12th incarnation.
- The Curator – retired(?) future incarnation who's face resembles the Fourth Doctor.

...and personally I think Jenny, the DreamLord/Valeyard and the Curator would all be worth seeing again