DOTD implies that the doctor's failure to find a third way at the end of the time war damaged him. Quite badly.

Implying that anytime post 2005 he failed to find a 'third way' with his companions & went with the tough choice (Donna mind wipe, sending Rose back to Pete's World) it's because it related back to his failure to find a third way with his people, it's like a feedback loop in his head, he literally couldn't think of any way out of a tough situation that didn't involve some form of self punishment. Basically, he did this bad thing & didn't feel like he deserved happiness.

........


Just give me a moment, ok.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/29980883.jpg

I agree it's a radical idea but I can't change the way I think about this idea anymore than you about it. I think bringing a New Doctor in halfway through a story is hugely disrespectful to the outgoing actor and as I said previously I feel it would be an unsatisfactory ending for any Doctor.

I just happen to enjoy the last episodes of Doctors(well, except maybe not the last one to a certain degree). I always look forward to it. Maybe I'm a traditionalist in that respect and if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

have been happy with the send off's we've had, but think there's room for doing it different at least once. I respect that you and others would not like that and understand your point of view as there are many thing's I would not like to see messed with so I think we just have to agree to disagree

My feelings exactly but it made for an interesting discussion.

DoctorBlueBox and Davey having an interesting discussion and respecting each others different opinions? Did someone break the forum?!

To be fair it was done kind of different from 7-8....

To be fair, that was hardly the nadir of those two episodes. They were fluffed up rubbish from start to finish.

that wasn't an actual episode of the show though, it was a tv movie. Anyway I do agree that it was different, but it's only because they couldn't do it at the end of the last ep of the series as it wasn't planned at that point (basically had no choice), so they just shoehorned it in at the start, and it was still avoiding the point where the danger happened, just happening before the danger, instead of after

Yeah its not impossible to do it in secret.

And Wilf would've died, as Matt's Doctor couldn't regenerate.

Well yes he could've actually, because instead of the mettacrisis it just would've been a normal regeneration numbered 12, so if it was Matt then he would've had the one left!
I somehow thing that things might have been different re the farewell tour!

He would've carried on with Donna Noble for the next 4 specials I presume, unless Catherine Tate had decided she wanted to leave the show before, then she wouldve had to have written out.

Anyway it could've been Donna with him in End of Time!
I dont know if they would've brought Amy in when they did, but he wouldn't have had a broken TARDIS, unless he had regenerated again in End of Time!

Like I was saying so much would need rewriting!
Just imagine another incarnation of the Doctor another actor and no extra regenerations in 'Time of...' unless he had used up both one in Stolen Earth/Journeys End and in End of Time!
It would've been a short run for incarnation number '12' if he was only between Stolen Earth/Journeys End and in End of Time!
I wonder if it would've had to be someone else and matt come in after End of Time or would they just have rewritten End of time so no regeneration happened?

I kind of agree with both sides here - it would be possible to pull off the Doctor having his farewell at the end of the first part of a two-part story, with the incomer getting his introductory episode in the second half. But I also agree that the outgoing actor needs a proper signing off, with the incomer having a proper introduction, and that's hard to manage while there's so many other plot elements going on.

I think that's one of the reasons regenerations happen in the TARDIS - it's always after the main concerns of the story are done and there's only one thing to focus on.

If the regeneration had happened, Tennant would have regenerated into someone else, Matt would have been too young, and his casting was done exclusively by moffat, and since RTD was still in charge, it would be unlikely in the extreme that matt smith would have been chosen.

quite! It wouldve been another actor rtd had worked with previously.

I would have done things a little differently to what was actually done.

I would have had begun the regeneration process of The Doctor in The Stolen Earth, but done it once the TARDIS had been taken to The Crucible.

The dying Tenth Doctor is left in the TARDIS as the Daleks make Rose, Jack and Donna come out of it. The door still closes of its own accord before Donna can get out, stranding Jack and Rose with Davros. The Daleks attempt to destroy the TARDIS and everyone believes that The Doctor and Donna are dead.

Journey's End goes on as it did for a while before the TARDIS materialises in Davros' vault. The Doctor and Donna emerge, with The Doctor still appearing as Ten to everyone's confusion. The episode then goes on to the reveal of The Doctor's soul, and then we get the reveal that this Doctor isn't the Doctor at all... he's the Metacrisis Doctor grown from the Spare Hand and it is his half-humanity that gives Davros the chance to take his "final victory". The episode continues until it reaches its big finish, and then the towing home of the Earth... everyone bids their farewells and I would have personally kept Rose without her Doctor rather than diminishing the ending in Doomsday. The Metacrisis Doctor then has to deal with Donna losing her memories as well, so we get the same scene here as well.
Once that has happened and The Doctor takes Donna home, he returns to the TARDIS only to be suffering the same problems as Donna. He begins to convulse until he is on the floor. We then see someone in the TARDIS walking towards the MetaDoctor... it is the actual Doctor, having lost all of his friends without the chance to say goodbye himself. This is the first time we see the newly regenerated Doctor, looking down at a copy of his old face and being there for him in his final moments.


All put short: The Doctor in my opinion should have been largely absent from Journey's End. It is the story of his companions saving the day in his place, but the price to pay is that he loses them all and never gets to say goodbye himself. The MetaDoctor gives Tennant a chance to still be involved in the final episode, but we get a newly regenerated Doctor appearing at the end.

Very true! To paraphrase The Master, a universe without Matt Smith as the Doctor hardly bears thinking about.

My sympathies would have been Rose, in that case . (not that Matt wasn't very nice in his way).



What a choice....memory-wipe Donna, or have no more Ten.

Mmm, let's think....

Sorry, Donna.


Oh, shut up. Who asked for your opinion?

(Memo to Mods; the above post was a joke. There is no need to remove it)

Well, I think he probably didn't expect the Daleks to seal her in with the hand - but surely if he knew what he was doing, he would know not to leaving it lying around humans?

I wonder what would have happened if say Jack had been in the TARDIS and suffered the Meta Crisis and not Donna? Would it have destroyed him like it did her or would he have been alright due to his innortality

He was hoping Sarah-Jane would visit with her son so he could say "Hey, check out my cool hand, Luke."


I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry.

I think it could have worked well, but not if the regeneration actually followed the Doctor getting shot by a Dalek because he was too busy running to see Rose instead of concentrating on this Dalek invasion. If Tennant had gone out like that, it would have been an insulting end to his Doctor.

But imagine if the episode had ended with a "no-win scenario," where the Doctor realises that the only way they could possibly win was to sacrifice himself. He knows it won't win the war, but it will put the Daleks on the back foot and give them a chance to come up with a solution. He steps up, does the necessary thing and regenerates - cue credits.

Tennant gets to go out with a bang. He sacrifices himself mid-battle, by his own choosing. He turns an impossible situation into a glimmer of hope. Then just as the dust settles and the Daleks think they can get back on with their plan, a manic Matt Smith emerges and proceeds to dump all over them!

It could be done well; both satisfying a heroic "end," for the incumbent actor and setting up a tour-de-force entrance for the new.

wow I wouldve liked to see that!

Well The Doctor did say once there were Seven Wonders of The Universe didn't he? Maybe there were more than he thought!


I'm gonna have to put on my Troll Police hat and report you Granny.....

it's change, my dear, and not a moment too soon

Actually, you could do it a little Christmas-Invasion-ish and have the Doctor missing for the first half of the second episode - make it appear that he actually died, sacrificing himself to stop the Dalek's plan. Leave it up in the air and hold off the big reveal until later.