DVD plus or minus ?

xxtimbo · 29-01-2014, 20:20

On impulse I bought a 50 pack of DVD +R
... mainly because they were going for 10 p per disc !
I relise that Ive only bought minus R before

My dvd recorder is pansonic dmr ex83 HD up conversion.

I can see logos on top... dvd ram. dvd rw/r,
div x etc

I was wondering will this machine record with DVD+R?

I cant try a disc as that would ruin the packaging if I have to go back to the shop !

chrisjr · 29-01-2014, 21:27

Does this answer the question?

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...trackInfo=true

alan1302 · 29-01-2014, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxtimbo

I was wondering will this machine record with DVD+R?

It would, yes.

xxtimbo · 29-01-2014, 22:50

Looks like I can risk unwrapping the goods
50 discs for £5..... 10 p per disc, not bad
Hyundai... a good make too

Makes me wonder what all that plus and minus was
all about in the first place !

alan1302 · 29-01-2014, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxtimbo

Looks like I can risk unwrapping the goods
50 discs for £5..... 10 p per disc, not bad
Hyundai... a good make too

Makes me wonder what all that plus and minus was
all about in the first place !

No risk...not sure I would say they were a good make though!

I think the + and - were slightly different ways of writing to DVDs that different manufacturers used but in the end most drives could read and write anything.

captainkremmen · 30-01-2014, 13:42

DVD-R/RW were developed by Pioneer and ratified by the DVD Forum, so in essence it was the "official" recordable format.

DVD+R/RW was developed by primarily Sony/Philips and supported by a group of hardware companies, including Dell, HP etc. who formed the DVD Alliance.

They use slightly different methods of writing to disc, and the discs are slightly different enough to be incompatible with each other. However, once written DVD-R and DVD+R are both close to the standard DVD Video format so both are playable on most DVD players (and pretty much all DVD players sold in the last ten years).

DVD-RW is quite different to DVD-R when it comes to writing discs. Players have to be specifically made compatible with DVD-RW to play the discs back, but DVD-RW can be written in DVD-R mode (known as Video Mode) which basically means the -RW disc is written to as if it is a -R disc, but you lose many of the editing features. The standard mode of writing to DVD-RW is known as -VR mode. This allows advanced editing before finalisation, including splitting tracks, combining tracks, deleting tracks etc. Not many DVD players can play DVD-RW discs recorded in -VR mode, the ones that do are mainly from Pioneer and a few others. But many modern players can play DVD-RW discs recorded in Video mode.

DVD+R and DVD+RW both use the same mode for recording, namely +VR mode. This closely mimics standard DVD Video mode, but on +RW discs you get advanced editing features, although not quite to the same level as DVD-RW VR Mode discs usually. +R/RW discs generally don't need finalising for playback on other machines, whereas DVD-R/RW usually does (except in the case of players specifically designed to play -VR mode discs).

Confused yet?.

In terms of compatibility it generally goes something like this:

DVD-R - The most compatible once finalised.
DVD+R - Almost as compatible as DVD-R.
DVD-RW Video Mode - Playable on the majority of modern players, hit and miss on whether they will play on older players.
DVD+RW - Playable on most modern players, very hit and miss as to whether older players will play the discs.
DVD-RW VR Mode - Playable on some modern players once finalised, playable on very few if not finalised.

DVD-RAM was a format developed by Panasonic primarily as a PC storage format. It was designed to mimic as far as possible reading and writing to an HDD. Panasonic later adapted it for video recording and playback, but it never really made it beyond Panasonic's own recorders and players (apart from a few Far Eastern makes). Originally DVD-RAM discs came in a plastic caddy (like Minidisc), but the caddy was later dropped.

In 2008 DVD+R/RW was added to the official DVD Forum specs so pretty much every manufacturer then started shipping drives for PCs, and then standalone recorders, that could use either -R/RW or +R/RW for recording.

captainkremmen · 30-01-2014, 13:57

And to confuse matters even further,

Some manufacturers of stand alone DVD recorders use DVD+R/RW's +VR recording mode, even if recording on -RW discs. Liteon do so for example, rather than DVD-RW's own -VR recording mode.

The quality of the dye use in the manufacture of the disc can be a major issue too. One brand of DVD-R/+R disc may work without problems for years, but if the manufacturer changes the dye you may start to get problems with recording or playback.

Then there's the issue of recording speeds. Older recorders that required discs certified as 1x or 2x can have problems writing to modern 16x or higher discs. The better brands names are usually certified at all speeds so tend to be fine, but cheaper discs may not be properly certified at lower speeds so wont work properly, if at all. It may not be a major issue for writing from a PC, but it can cause major problems with standalone DVD recorders.

xxtimbo · 30-01-2014, 16:10

You might know that sony would be at the bottom
of dvd +

Did nt they get their fingers burnt big time when the
rival video tape formats came out ? and VHS won the day

from mem the sony vid format was better, but VHS had all the backing of the big movie libraries which promted sony to learn their lesson and they started buying into Hollywood in a big way .

But then are Sony Japanese ?
someone said the NY in sony means New York !
just like the NY in the word nylon is actually New York ... the lon bit is of course London

webbie · 30-01-2014, 21:33

IIRC it was Philips who were mostly behind dvd+.
And Ny in nylon has nothing to do with New York. Similarly the lon has nothing to do with London.

xxtimbo · 31-01-2014, 00:11

Wot ?

You ll be telling me that SONY
isnt Standard Oil of New York next !

captainkremmen · 31-01-2014, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxtimbo

You might know that sony would be at the bottom
of dvd +

Did nt they get their fingers burnt big time when the
rival video tape formats came out ? and VHS won the day

from mem the sony vid format was better, but VHS had all the backing of the big movie libraries which promted sony to learn their lesson and they started buying into Hollywood in a big way .

But then are Sony Japanese ?
someone said the NY in sony means New York !
just like the NY in the word nylon is actually New York ... the lon bit is of course London

Sony provided technical input, in their partnership with Philips, but it was primarily Philips that did much of the development. Sony were the main advocate for DVD+R/RW at the start though, and they and Philips were founder members of the DVD Alliance, the rival group to the official DVD Forum.

I should say this is from memory, reading documents about the new formats back in the day so I might not be 100% correct.

Sony were, I think, the first to introduce multi format recorders capable of handling both -R and +R formats.

xxtimbo · 01-02-2014, 19:31

I put the dvd + disc in and a request to
format the disc came up
I did that then a question... do you wish to finalize the disc ?
I carefully avoided that option and went on to record on the disc........ so far.... so good.

Looks like the dvd + discs will work ok but each one has to be formatted first.

captainkremmen · 02-02-2014, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxtimbo

I put the dvd + disc in and a request to
format the disc came up
I did that then a question... do you wish to finalize the disc ?
I carefully avoided that option and went on to record on the disc........ so far.... so good.

Looks like the dvd + discs will work ok but each one has to be formatted first.

Yeah that's pretty common.

The real test will be playing the disc back on another player.

gemma-the-husky · 02-02-2014, 22:59

Fwiw i always found decent quality dvd-r preferable.

ScottishPancake · 03-02-2014, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky

Fwiw i always found decent quality dvd-r preferable.

I nearly always use DVD+R format, very rarely, if ever, DVD-R format.

jra · 03-02-2014, 00:46

DVR-R/DVR-RW for Panasonic for overall record/playback performance, unless things have changed.

ScottishPancake · 03-02-2014, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jra

DVR-R/DVR-RW for Panasonic for overall record/playback performance, unless things have changed.

You can nearly always rely on Panasonic for quality and performance!

captainkremmen · 03-02-2014, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jra

DVR-R/DVR-RW for Panasonic for overall record/playback performance, unless things have changed.

Agreed. Although Panasonic (and Pioneer before they pulled out) machines, well the later mones anyway, could use +R/RW they always seemed more reliable with -R/RW discs instead.

56up · 06-02-2014, 12:02

Effectively with Panasonic machines, if you want to use the high speed speed mode you need to use DVD- disks. If the programme is recorded in VR mode, high speed copying is not possible with DVD+ disks. It is if the programme is recorded in Video mode.

I have never fathomed how the machine chooses the VR or Video formats. Different episodes of the same programme on the same channel can have different formats! How do I know this? When selecting the programmes to copy in advanced mode there is a disk symbol on programmes in Video mode and a ! on programmes in VR mode.

For recording direct on to the DVD I would choose DVD+ disks as you can play them on most modern DVD players without finalising, albeit without a Top Menu.
For advanced copying I tend to use DVD- to ensure I can use high speed mode.

29-01-2014, 20:20	#1
xxtimbo Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,683	DVD plus or minus ? On impulse I bought a 50 pack of DVD +R ... mainly because they were going for 10 p per disc ! I relise that Ive only bought minus R before My dvd recorder is pansonic dmr ex83 HD up conversion. I can see logos on top... dvd ram. dvd rw/r, div x etc I was wondering will this machine record with DVD+R? I cant try a disc as that would ruin the packaging if I have to go back to the shop !

29-01-2014, 21:27	#2
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Does this answer the question? http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...trackInfo=true

29-01-2014, 21:30	#3
alan1302 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Yorks Posts: 6,180	Quote: Originally Posted by xxtimbo I was wondering will this machine record with DVD+R? It would, yes.

29-01-2014, 22:50	#4
xxtimbo Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,683	Looks like I can risk unwrapping the goods 50 discs for £5..... 10 p per disc, not bad Hyundai... a good make too Makes me wonder what all that plus and minus was all about in the first place !

29-01-2014, 22:55	#5
alan1302 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Yorks Posts: 6,180	Quote: Originally Posted by xxtimbo Looks like I can risk unwrapping the goods 50 discs for £5..... 10 p per disc, not bad Hyundai... a good make too Makes me wonder what all that plus and minus was all about in the first place ! No risk...not sure I would say they were a good make though! I think the + and - were slightly different ways of writing to DVDs that different manufacturers used but in the end most drives could read and write anything.

30-01-2014, 13:42	#6
captainkremmen Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: DAVEVILLE, Daveshire DA1 1VE Posts: 33,621	DVD-R/RW were developed by Pioneer and ratified by the DVD Forum, so in essence it was the "official" recordable format. DVD+R/RW was developed by primarily Sony/Philips and supported by a group of hardware companies, including Dell, HP etc. who formed the DVD Alliance. They use slightly different methods of writing to disc, and the discs are slightly different enough to be incompatible with each other. However, once written DVD-R and DVD+R are both close to the standard DVD Video format so both are playable on most DVD players (and pretty much all DVD players sold in the last ten years). DVD-RW is quite different to DVD-R when it comes to writing discs. Players have to be specifically made compatible with DVD-RW to play the discs back, but DVD-RW can be written in DVD-R mode (known as Video Mode) which basically means the -RW disc is written to as if it is a -R disc, but you lose many of the editing features. The standard mode of writing to DVD-RW is known as -VR mode. This allows advanced editing before finalisation, including splitting tracks, combining tracks, deleting tracks etc. Not many DVD players can play DVD-RW discs recorded in -VR mode, the ones that do are mainly from Pioneer and a few others. But many modern players can play DVD-RW discs recorded in Video mode. DVD+R and DVD+RW both use the same mode for recording, namely +VR mode. This closely mimics standard DVD Video mode, but on +RW discs you get advanced editing features, although not quite to the same level as DVD-RW VR Mode discs usually. +R/RW discs generally don't need finalising for playback on other machines, whereas DVD-R/RW usually does (except in the case of players specifically designed to play -VR mode discs). Confused yet?. In terms of compatibility it generally goes something like this: DVD-R - The most compatible once finalised. DVD+R - Almost as compatible as DVD-R. DVD-RW Video Mode - Playable on the majority of modern players, hit and miss on whether they will play on older players. DVD+RW - Playable on most modern players, very hit and miss as to whether older players will play the discs. DVD-RW VR Mode - Playable on some modern players once finalised, playable on very few if not finalised. DVD-RAM was a format developed by Panasonic primarily as a PC storage format. It was designed to mimic as far as possible reading and writing to an HDD. Panasonic later adapted it for video recording and playback, but it never really made it beyond Panasonic's own recorders and players (apart from a few Far Eastern makes). Originally DVD-RAM discs came in a plastic caddy (like Minidisc), but the caddy was later dropped. In 2008 DVD+R/RW was added to the official DVD Forum specs so pretty much every manufacturer then started shipping drives for PCs, and then standalone recorders, that could use either -R/RW or +R/RW for recording.

30-01-2014, 13:57	#7
captainkremmen Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: DAVEVILLE, Daveshire DA1 1VE Posts: 33,621	And to confuse matters even further, Some manufacturers of stand alone DVD recorders use DVD+R/RW's +VR recording mode, even if recording on -RW discs. Liteon do so for example, rather than DVD-RW's own -VR recording mode. The quality of the dye use in the manufacture of the disc can be a major issue too. One brand of DVD-R/+R disc may work without problems for years, but if the manufacturer changes the dye you may start to get problems with recording or playback. Then there's the issue of recording speeds. Older recorders that required discs certified as 1x or 2x can have problems writing to modern 16x or higher discs. The better brands names are usually certified at all speeds so tend to be fine, but cheaper discs may not be properly certified at lower speeds so wont work properly, if at all. It may not be a major issue for writing from a PC, but it can cause major problems with standalone DVD recorders.

30-01-2014, 16:10	#8
xxtimbo Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,683	You might know that sony would be at the bottom of dvd + Did nt they get their fingers burnt big time when the rival video tape formats came out ? and VHS won the day from mem the sony vid format was better, but VHS had all the backing of the big movie libraries which promted sony to learn their lesson and they started buying into Hollywood in a big way . But then are Sony Japanese ? someone said the NY in sony means New York ! just like the NY in the word nylon is actually New York ... the lon bit is of course London

30-01-2014, 21:33	#9
webbie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Devon Posts: 1,568	IIRC it was Philips who were mostly behind dvd+. And Ny in nylon has nothing to do with New York. Similarly the lon has nothing to do with London.

31-01-2014, 00:11	#10
xxtimbo Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,683	Wot ? You ll be telling me that SONY isnt Standard Oil of New York next !

31-01-2014, 00:30	#11
captainkremmen Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: DAVEVILLE, Daveshire DA1 1VE Posts: 33,621	Quote: Originally Posted by xxtimbo You might know that sony would be at the bottom of dvd + Did nt they get their fingers burnt big time when the rival video tape formats came out ? and VHS won the day from mem the sony vid format was better, but VHS had all the backing of the big movie libraries which promted sony to learn their lesson and they started buying into Hollywood in a big way . But then are Sony Japanese ? someone said the NY in sony means New York ! just like the NY in the word nylon is actually New York ... the lon bit is of course London Sony provided technical input, in their partnership with Philips, but it was primarily Philips that did much of the development. Sony were the main advocate for DVD+R/RW at the start though, and they and Philips were founder members of the DVD Alliance, the rival group to the official DVD Forum. I should say this is from memory, reading documents about the new formats back in the day so I might not be 100% correct. Sony were, I think, the first to introduce multi format recorders capable of handling both -R and +R formats.

01-02-2014, 19:31	#12
xxtimbo Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,683	I put the dvd + disc in and a request to format the disc came up I did that then a question... do you wish to finalize the disc ? I carefully avoided that option and went on to record on the disc........ so far.... so good. Looks like the dvd + discs will work ok but each one has to be formatted first.

02-02-2014, 15:06	#13
captainkremmen Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: DAVEVILLE, Daveshire DA1 1VE Posts: 33,621	Quote: Originally Posted by xxtimbo I put the dvd + disc in and a request to format the disc came up I did that then a question... do you wish to finalize the disc ? I carefully avoided that option and went on to record on the disc........ so far.... so good. Looks like the dvd + discs will work ok but each one has to be formatted first. Yeah that's pretty common. The real test will be playing the disc back on another player.

02-02-2014, 22:59	#14
gemma-the-husky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 17,858	Fwiw i always found decent quality dvd-r preferable.

03-02-2014, 00:28	#15
ScottishPancake Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: The lounge of purgatory Posts: 1,054	Quote: Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky Fwiw i always found decent quality dvd-r preferable. I nearly always use DVD+R format, very rarely, if ever, DVD-R format.

03-02-2014, 00:46	#16
jra Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 40,658	DVR-R/DVR-RW for Panasonic for overall record/playback performance, unless things have changed.

03-02-2014, 00:56	#17
ScottishPancake Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: The lounge of purgatory Posts: 1,054	Quote: Originally Posted by jra DVR-R/DVR-RW for Panasonic for overall record/playback performance, unless things have changed. You can nearly always rely on Panasonic for quality and performance!

03-02-2014, 18:12	#18
captainkremmen Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: DAVEVILLE, Daveshire DA1 1VE Posts: 33,621	Quote: Originally Posted by jra DVR-R/DVR-RW for Panasonic for overall record/playback performance, unless things have changed. Agreed. Although Panasonic (and Pioneer before they pulled out) machines, well the later mones anyway, could use +R/RW they always seemed more reliable with -R/RW discs instead.

06-02-2014, 12:02	#19
56up Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Worcestershire, UK Posts: 779	Effectively with Panasonic machines, if you want to use the high speed speed mode you need to use DVD- disks. If the programme is recorded in VR mode, high speed copying is not possible with DVD+ disks. It is if the programme is recorded in Video mode. I have never fathomed how the machine chooses the VR or Video formats. Different episodes of the same programme on the same channel can have different formats! How do I know this? When selecting the programmes to copy in advanced mode there is a disk symbol on programmes in Video mode and a ! on programmes in VR mode. For recording direct on to the DVD I would choose DVD+ disks as you can play them on most modern DVD players without finalising, albeit without a Top Menu. For advanced copying I tend to use DVD- to ensure I can use high speed mode.

DS Forums

DVD plus or minus ?